It appears that people are trying to change the para---dig(m)!
Any thoughts monkeys?
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Cost of attendance and xenophobia on the rise coupled with fewer millennials wanting to work in banking even though culture and hours can be just as bad at FANG/Salesforce.
Xenophobia? You mean Asians not getting visa sponsorship which was an issue before Trump and is worse now?
Imagine if US MBA programs had to cut costs and admit more Americans. The horror!
Yes, xenophobia has definitely worsened an already unfortunate situation.
It's not xenophobia, it's a stronger economy and high student loan debt keeping people away
Most MBAs are money makers for universities that don't really add value. The MBAs people debate here (~Top 25 at most) are the rare exception. To drop 100K and 2 years, you better have a real good reason to go back to school. On a broader level, I wouldn't be surprised if college enrollment declines in the next 10-20 years for the same reason. No point being a college-educated barista with 200K in debt.
I was told it is even 200k-300k, Not only are you not earning money but you are also spending more because you pay for the university + you travel and party even more
Simple calculation of total mba cost:
Tuition + after tax savings from job + increase/decrease in living expenses
https://poetsandquants.com/2018/09/29/whos-hardest-hit-in-this-years-mb…
The decline continues!
https://poetsandquants.com/2018/10/01/gmac-survey-70-of-u-s-schools-see…
I'd love to see this trend continue. I'm looking at class of 2021 or 2022 and the dream scenario would be to see competition weaken + economic recession while matriculating. What a time to be alive hahaha!
If there was a re cession, theoretically there would be more MBA applicants, right?
I am ignoring the debt because that is an issue now and focussing on what will be available when the market slips or gradually declines. My $0.02
You're correct! Ideally, you're accepted into top choice and the following week, the economy starts to tank. That way, you get to avoid all the bearish sentiment around the office and hopefully by the time you're out, job prospects are starting to look up.
It could be the perfect storm for probability of top-tier MBA acceptance + timing a bearish economic cycle lololol
This is such a blessing for Americans with average test scores
Seems a bit selfish, no?
.
You don't need an MBA in the booming MAGA economy
My cousin was matriculating at Emory through the 08 collapse and said he saw classmates have their offers rescinded. He came from tech and ended up going back into tech as finance was in chaos. It would suck after all the hard work to come out into a crap market. No matter where you attend you want the best offers.
I am matriculating at a very similarly ranked school(15-20) in 2019. Since my post MBA goal is Banking, what would you advise? I am already scared since I am an international so the issues of visa+new country+new culture+ tough banking recruitment are already there. Added to that is that $1=75 Currency of my country. So I will be 200k USD in debt. Is it advisable to come to the US given we could be looking at a recession in 2021? Thanks.
At programs with strong IB placement, I've seen people basically admit the only people who don't get IB offers are those who totally flunk technicals and those with no social skills. Associate is a client-facing role; you need to represent yourself and the bank well. If you can do that, it's pretty much a layup is what current students tell me.
Thanks for the inputs-really useful. I get that for the technicals, I need to prepare, but for an international like me, how do you think I can get my social skills to be at par with people who get in? What are these social skills?
This will sound very "Trump's America" but hang out with the "cool kids" at your program. I mean that facetiously, but seriously, don't just spend all your time with your pocket of internationals from your own country like many internationals do-ingratiate yourself to the finance bros and observe their mannerisms without trying too hard. This will make you more comfortable at stuff like small talk, jokes, banter, opening people etc.
There are basically two types of internationals in B-school: those who are fairly "Westernized" - maybe they have dual passports or they grew up in or attended British, Australian, Canadian schools and have personalities that don't suggest cultural barriers, and then there are the obvious ones. They tend to have language and/or cultural issues that tank them during "fit" portions of recruiting. I saw this with much of the South Asian community as it was quite insular-so you could really see the sharp contrast between the IIT guys and the Desis, especially in recruiting outcomes. Saw it with Eastern Europeans as well, to a certain extent.
Nail your technicals AND behavioral questions without coming off stiff, rigid, or rehearsed and you'll be in solid shape
Even if apps drop a bit, top 10-15 programs will mostly be worth the time/money for the foreseeable future. In another 25 years with even more tuition inflation...idk then.
The only way possible for me to pivot from the military to IB was to get an MBA from a top school.
I believe a top MBA is great for people who are career switchers, but I agree with other comments posted - it makes zero sense to drop 100k only to return to the same industry.
This topic varies person to person. The degree makes sense for some, not so much for others.
it helps in climbing the ranks quicker at big shops, esp if you seek to be a higher level exec
Damen, I assume you were an officer. Sir, I was enlisted and am trying to break into IB. I am curious what your experience is on the transition. Do you think the same challenges you experienced are similar for an undergrad student? Any insight is appreciated.
The transition from military to b-school or b-school to IB? Shoot me a PM with any questions and I'll give you my thoughts.
The drop is mostly due to the decline of international applicants. Domestic applicant pool remains competitive.
I hope it keeps going down because I don’t want to do one
Haven't really noticed a difference working with or hiring people with an MBA vs no MBA. I know a lot of VCs that do early stage do not like MBAs at all, which is weird but I guess it makes sense.
This is a tight labor market and wages are rising rapidly right now....why would you take a break for school right now? The opportunity cost is too high.
**Cyclical factors: ** * bull market * labor market solid * foreigners (well mostly my people and Indians) succumbing to reality that most just ain't getting a work visa even if they go to H/S/W, plus China and India are booming and where the action is at
**Secular factors: ** * less ppl want to do "factory jobs" - aka IB and Consulting * more ppl doing tech / data science where employers don't value MBA as much
Perhaps its too early to make this comment, but Clayton Christensen, among other thinkers, has described a future in which traditional higher education (both undergraduate and post-grad) will undergo drastic changes or stop existing altogether because of the emergence of online learning and the costs relative to inflation increasing too greatly. But elite professional schools should be insulated from these effects largely because of their network.
I don't think this short-term decline is symptomatic of such a shift, however.
Its not really worth it to leave the job market.
I think i am going to just go part time, if i even go at all.
My opportunity cost is wayyyy too high
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