Mid-Ranked Analyst at Top BB vs Top-Ranked Analyst at Mid BB - London
Hi all,
I wanted to get some quick advice on FT IBD options in London. Specifically, I am oscillating whether being the/among the very top Analysts at a Mid-BB (BAML/CS) would be beneficial compared to being "among the mix" at a top BB (GS/MS) for exit opportunities. For this comparison, I measure "top" not in terms of the class ranking after Y1 (although also easier at CS/BAML) but rather the attractiveness for PEs and Headhunters (Language, Previous Experience prior to FT (specifically prior PE), Education, ECs etc.).
While it is traditional wisdom to assume that being at the best bank will give you the best opportunities, I think that some people underestimate the competition at GS/MS and also within groups. Also, I would assume that this question is only relevant in London where there is more an effort to look at more banks/groups compared to NY.
An example: If a Headhunter is looking for a shortlist of 15 people for an Associate PE position at a Large Cap PE Fund, they will usually have ca. 2/3 of candidates coming from GS/MS/JPM meaning 3/4 individuals per bank plus 2/3 candidates from mid-BB (primarily CS and BAML) plus 1/2 kids from EBs (not always the case). Therefore wouldn't it be equivalent to be "the" top candidate at BAML/CS compared to maybe only in the top 10 at a GS/MS, potentially even preferable?
Disclaimer: I know that some funds only recruit at Top 3 (GA, H&F, etc.) but the majority of top funds look at the mentioned 5 firms (although I recognise the overrepresentation of Top 3).
Many thanks in advance!
Also interested.
Are you making the assumption that you will be the best analyst at BofA but might only be the 5th best analyst at Goldman Sachs?
If so I don’t think any response here would really help you. Just worry about yourself and don’t focus on what other people are doing. I think it’s pretty presumptuous to just say that you’re going to be better than everyone else. Cheers for the confidence but be careful not to come off as arrogant.
Fairly certain that headhunters just get a list of everyone and contact them all. But my experience is only applicable to NYC so take it as you will.
In addition to the above, it's also quite bold to state that it's easier to be top ranked at BofA/Citi than at GS/MS/JPM.
A rather decent part of securing a spot at a top 3 BB pours down to luck, and it may very well be the case that the best students/analysts end up at BofA/Citi, making it fairly hard to be top ranked. Don't underestimate people simply because they do not work for GS/MS/JPM
Thanks for your responses and please excuse me if my post came across as arrogant, actually I didn't even try to make it about analyst ability but rather about often objective criterica that make you attractive for PEs which is at times rankable.
In NY, I think this would be a combination of Top Target, High GPA/Test Scores plus Group whereas in London certain languages such as French and German or prior PE experience are particularly sought after.
Since profiles with these attributes will be more likely to appear at a GS/MS/JPM than BofA/CS, I was just wondering whether there is a case to be made that you will have an easier time to stand out at the latter places and therefore create a stronger narrative for your PE exit.
Can tell you that GS/MS/JP are losing quite a few cross-offers with Citi/BoA/CS in London, due to having a lower conversion rate and the trend of reducing the gap between the "Top 3". There may be other reasons, but this season has been something not that uncommon.
In any case the safe bet is to go with GS/MS/JP, dont worry about being top bucket, also mid buckets are called by HH, so its more about the branding, being under the umbrella of an american BB at London is more than enough.
Don't get me wrong, the JP/MS/GS analyst class in London has some top talent, but the top 3 best analysts I've ever met did not come from there. A good analyst doesn't do anything wrong and works very fast, and these are the guys that you set as your target and try to work towards becoming. But there are some analysts that you work with that make you think holy crap this guy is an MD in the making, and you cannot even imagine being on his level. The kind of analyst who is so trusted, the MD's idea of a deck is to give him 50 slide titles, or an email of unordered bullet points. The kind of analyst who is three steps ahead of the MD's requests, but still doesn't do unnecessary work. A good analyst gives you a model that works perfectly, a top analyst gives you a model so clearly labelled and structured that even a 15 year old could follow it. I've seen analysts source deals, and even though they don't have the connections to make it happen, if they take the initiative, it can well evolve into something genuine.
I've seen guys like this come from Jefferies, from the specialised boutiques like LionTree, from the EBs, and the other BBs. There are enough of them that I feel both worried and inspired about being just a good analyst. I haven't actually met anyone like this from JP/MS/GS.
Exactly what this guy said. As long as you are in a BB/EB, headhunters will call you. What will make you stand out however is your ability to efficiently convey your transactional experience first to the HHs and then to your interviewers. Make no mistake and be very prepared when talking to HHs - they sound very friendly but are evaluating each one of your sentence. Know how to answer in-depths questions on your deal experience and motivation ("why a large cap fund and not a midcap/small cap fund", "why a buyout fund and not infra/growth/tech", etc.) Great references are of the utmost importance - MFs teams are so small in Europe that they will only recruit someone that was vetted by someone they know and trust. You should focus first on being a "wow" Analyst. A "wow" Analyst is a junior who understands very quickly the rules of the game and the secret newspeak of MDs. He is not afraid of stepping up and taking responsibility for most of his projects. 6 to 9 months after start, he can take care of MD pitches without needing to be babysitted by an Associate. He will sometimes have to work on things that are beyond his seniority level, but rather than immediately panicking he will come up with a plan to tackle it and to ask for the relevant input from seniors. A "wow" Analyst is a team player who always takes time to answer junior group emails when he has something to provide. A "wow" Analyst builds a rapport with seniors and juniors from other teams, e.g. doesn’t just ask for end-of-year feedback but also keeps other groups updated of his progress on a project when relevant. A "wow" Analyst is likeable - he doesn’t need to be the most popular / extraverted junior in the team but comes across as someone you could have a beer with without speaking about finance the whole time. A "wow" Analyst actively seeks to get exposure to the more complicated / technical subjects and doesn’t just wait passively to be trained and introduced to excel models, thinking that it will happen some day.
If you strive to be a great ANL, word will get around of how great you are, independently from your IB’s name.
@Monkeyrella Many thanks for this. I will try to do my best to become such an Analyst.
@JustAnAnalyst Many thanks for the detailed answer. I have heard similar things before with people in charge of recruiting at funds telling me that they have seen way too many bad people at Top BB and the other way around to really care anymore.
As you have already some of the key characteristics of a top analyst, is there anything specific that one can do to prepare before starting full-time to achieve this level or is it more about attitude a certain level of smarts once you hit the ground?
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