Middle Office Trade Support Operations

TheGuru's picture
Rank: Senior Chimp | banana points 16

Has anybody heard or worked for Societe Generale Operations in the NY office? Specifically in the trade support group. Whats the salary for a first year analyst? Bonuses? Do you get to learn a lot about trading and the products since you sit next to the traders?

I realize that exit ops for operations are limited, so where do people who work 2 - 5 years in operations go? Do they make VP or Director? Move into S&T?

Comments (26)

Aug 21, 2012

If you can get an interview, they'll likely answer all these questions for you. It's pretty safe to assume you'll learn a lot about trading, but I can't speak on the particular firm's salaries/bonuses.

I was taught that the human brain was the crowning glory of evolution so far, but I think it's a very poor scheme for survival.

Aug 21, 2012

what are the industry averages for salaries and bonuses? 60-65k and 5-10k?

Aug 21, 2012

This is certainly anecdotal but hopefully it will help. When I was in college I interviewed for a BB's trade support rotational program and showed interest in learning about the products and moving to S&T ultimately. After the fact, this was clearly a bad strategy and I ultimately didn't get the offer. They want career MO people. Even if you want to move to FO, you need to convince them that you're about MO for the long-term.

I had a friend who did BB MO out of college and is/was very bright and progressed through the CFA program quickly, hoping it would help him to move to S&T. He was unable to, and now works for the same bank in risk, which he enjoys.

Your estimates for comp should be pretty accurate.

Aug 21, 2012
TheGuru:

Has anybody heard or worked for Societe Generale Operations in the NY office? Specifically in the trade support group. Whats the salary for a first year analyst? Bonuses? Do you get to learn a lot about trading and the products since you sit next to the traders?

I realize that exit ops for operations are limited, so where do people who work 2 - 5 years in operations go? Do they make VP or Director? Move into S&T?

I worked in Trading ops for a different BB so will opine based on that experience.

1st year should be around 60-70k nowadays.
Bonus? you will get a prorated bonus based on around 5k
you will learn a ton about the products, not so much about the trading. (maybe you will since you sit next to traders, at my bank we sat across the river from traders so were not really involved in non MO activities).

in 6-7 years, if you are good, you will probably make VP. However, making a VP in ops is basically saying I will stay in ops and like it, if you want S&T you need to figure out how to get out of there during analyst or associate years. Moves into S&T from MO are incredibly rare and take some serious networking as well as top notch performance to accomplish, even then, to actually sell or trade will take even more work. An MO guy that is lucky/good enough to make the move to the desk will probably be doing some non P&L function (e.g. portfolio optimization, trade booking, etc.)

hope that helps.

Aug 21, 2012
trailmix8:
TheGuru:

Has anybody heard or worked for Societe Generale Operations in the NY office? Specifically in the trade support group. Whats the salary for a first year analyst? Bonuses? Do you get to learn a lot about trading and the products since you sit next to the traders?

I realize that exit ops for operations are limited, so where do people who work 2 - 5 years in operations go? Do they make VP or Director? Move into S&T?

I worked in Trading ops for a different BB so will opine based on that experience.

hope that helps.

So where are you now?

I keep reading about how rare it is to move into S&T/FO. I want to know where the other 95% that couldnt move into FO are. I dont want to go into this kind of role with the sole purpose of moving into FO. I will obviously try to do that, but if that doesn't work out then what?

What are other options of advancement within ops or MO if moving to S&T/FO doesnt work?

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Aug 21, 2012
TheGuru:
trailmix8:
TheGuru:

Has anybody heard or worked for Societe Generale Operations in the NY office? Specifically in the trade support group. Whats the salary for a first year analyst? Bonuses? Do you get to learn a lot about trading and the products since you sit next to the traders?

I realize that exit ops for operations are limited, so where do people who work 2 - 5 years in operations go? Do they make VP or Director? Move into S&T?

I worked in Trading ops for a different BB so will opine based on that experience.

hope that helps.

So where are you now?

I keep reading about how rare it is to move into S&T/FO. I want to know where the other 95% that couldnt move into FO are. I dont want to go into this kind of role with the sole purpose of moving into FO. I will obviously try to do that, but if that doesn't work out then what?

What are other options of advancement within ops or MO if moving to S&T/FO doesnt work?

starting top 10 b-school next week. was a tough road getting here, but it worked out.

    • 1
Aug 21, 2012

Its not impossible to move from MO to S&T. I met SEVERAL people who did that this summer. Its not to say that it isnt hard to do & that some people do not succeed in going over to S&T, but people actually do do it. A lot of times traders want people who already have solid knowledge about the products, so they turn to their MO team. Make yourself indispensable to them and you can do it! Its not going to be an easy road but if you work hard and are persistent you will end up where you want to be.

Learn More

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Aug 22, 2012

OP, PM me. Just finished my SA in MO.

PS - Yes, it is very possible to move from MO to S&T.

Aug 21, 2012
CoochieMane:

OP, PM me. Just finished my SA in MO.

PS - Yes, it is very possible to move from MO to S&T.

It is very possible if you do an SA stint at MO and then for FT apply to S&T. But I hope you do not mean that it is very possible to move once you are FT in the MO. Can you elaborate?

Aug 23, 2012

It depends on the firm as well. Many BB and larger banks make it very difficult to move from MO to FO. A few VP/MD's I know at JPM have told me they have seen it, but its very rare. The desks like to recruit from their top schools and add talent that way.

Smaller banks often take MO guys to the FO. I know some guys at Cantor Fitzgerald and Piper Jaffray who say its almost encouraged. They like to hire sales/trade assistants with the intention of moving them to a full time FO role. Now it doesn't always work out and sometimes they don't feel comfortable moving you up. A desk head at one of mentioned smaller firms told me "You either have it or you don't, if you do, you will become a full time trader here"

I also knew one person who was a sales assistant a top BB. He was good at what he did and they moved him into a full time sales role. About 6-9 months later he was moved back to the sales assistant role because just couldn't cut it in the FO

Aug 23, 2012

CHIRP

Aug 23, 2012

I went from MO to IBD not S&T, so not much help to your question. But wither way it's going to be tough to transition, especially internally from my experience.

Aug 23, 2012

Like Trading Assistant (Booking, etc) or Trade Floor Support (tech, etc)?

Aug 23, 2012

Thanks all.. Revsly --> trading assistant role

"Major in economics; use your economics degree to get an analyst job on Wall Street; use your analyst job to get into Harvard or Stanford Business School; and worry about the rest of your life later"

Aug 23, 2012

You know, I spent a summer in Trade Support as an intern, 99% of people there are wanting to get into FO... it's a very hard and very competitive transition to make - though it does happen, albeit less so now since 08 I hear.

After seeing that I decided to apply to FO direct for my graduate job and that paid off, so might be worth considering that route instead if you are already sure you want to be in FO.

Aug 23, 2012

Thanks, rfxm3.. definitely want to go FO, but I am extremely happy with the firm I will be doing trade support with.. Also, I am at Villanova (semi-target?) and sort of missed the FO recruiting at other banks.. Thanks all, I am going to go trade support and bust my ass to make the transition to full on trading

"Major in economics; use your economics degree to get an analyst job on Wall Street; use your analyst job to get into Harvard or Stanford Business School; and worry about the rest of your life later"

Aug 23, 2012

its difficult but def possible.. There are some ppl on this board that have made the transition. plenty of threads on this topic -- use the search function

Aug 23, 2012

Sure, but just be aware that this is an ops job. But the top tier folks in ops and IT move into trading fairly easily if it's something they want to pursue.

Aug 23, 2012

My company is offering to pay for my CFA level 1. Will this help? I'm thinking of doing it anyway I have time to study for it now.

Aug 23, 2012
trader666:

My company is offering to pay for my CFA level 1. Will this help? I'm thinking of doing it anyway I have time to study for it now.

I think it would help. I know two people that worked in fixed income munis and mortgages and say that CFA 1 is more than you will need analytically wise for a trading job. They both have their CFA 1. It would definitely be something you should get if you are thinking of transferring over to a buy side role.

Aug 23, 2012

Thanks for the help everyone!

Aug 23, 2012

it's really all about networking. try to get to know the traders and make sure they know about your aspirations. then work your ass off and hope for the best.

Aug 23, 2012