I'm currently a public finance analyst at a MM with a strong presence in munis (Stifel, Baird, Piper). I've been doing this for a few years now, and starting to think more long term. It seems a lot of the job at the senior level is "knowing people" and pitching. At the junior level, it doesn't get very stimulating (for me at least - also important to note I'm primarily in GOs). Especially with the curve where it is right now, it seems like my days are just endless refundings in DBC. And then there's always pitchbooks and RFPs.
I don't know if I see myself as a MD bringing deals in. Whenever I'm at the point in the deal process where I'm talking to our underwriters, I always love hearing them talk about the market. It's so much more technical than what I do.
A few rapid fire questions if anyone has answers/insight on any of them:
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I see the fixed income side in munis as sales/trading/underwriting. Underwriting seems to have A LOT of pressure from banking and in general; sales seems too relationship oriented; trading seems the most technical and least relationship oriented. Is this a fair assessment or not accurate?
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Does the muni market's lack of liquidity make muni trading profitable? I feel like I'm always hearing about the death of fixed income (which I'm sure is dramatic). Does muni trading's future look bright?
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are the skills you learn on the banking side transferable at all to muni banking? Or would I need to start from the most entry level position if I made the switch?
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Any insight on comp compared to the banking side? I've learned comp varies wildly on the banking side as you can be a banker failing to bring in low margin GO deals or be a credit heavy banker who racks up high margin deals and bring in literally 5-10x more than the former.
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What is the lifestyle of a muni trader? Do they work less hours than other trading groups? I've heard there are less trades and it's a bit slower. Are MM muni traders on average going to work less hours than their BB counterparts?
Any information on this would be greatly appreciated - thanks!
jacobk, hey, look at the bright side, at least you didn't get a ton of monkey shit thrown at you...here is my best guess on threads that might be helpful:
I hope those threads give you a bit more insight.
bump
I'm not really qualified to be giving much advice but I did rotate through a munis desk this summer and can add a little bit of insight.
a. The hours they worked were the most relaxed out of all the desks I saw/rotated on. They were ALL gone by 5-5:15pm (underwriters, traders and salespeople). Yes, even the analysts/junior traders. They did come in at around 6:30-6:45am, though.
b. Met 2-3 people that had made the switch from public finance to Munis S&T, although they were salespeople and not traders. So definitely not uncommon.
c. In terms of comp, I remember speaking with a salesperson one day and she told me that the hours were great "but we don't get paid as much as many other desks". Take that as you will.
d. In terms of the work itself, It is very slow-paced, at least compared to the other desks I rotated on. It is also a very old business that hasn't changed much in many years so it is common to see many traders/salespeople in their 40's and even 50's.
e. You definitely know a lot more than me about liquidity in the Munis market but from what I saw and was told, there is actually a lot more supply than there is demand right now. I think a bigger issue is the fact that there are less issuances going on even though rates are at historically low levels. I believe this has something to do with the tax reform as it relates to advanced refunding.
Personally, I didn't really like the culture and how things are done in the munis space. It was too slow-paced and old-school (in a bad way) to what I was/am interested in. But you do get really good hours and decent comp. Lastly, the fact that there is very little turnover in that space creates a very family-like culture where a lot of people actually know each other outside of work and often times know their respective families. At least for the bank that I interned at.
Just my two cents. I'm just an intern so would take it with a grain of salt.
That was some great intel! Thanks a ton. Were you interning at a MM or BB bank? If BB, then it doesn't seem like there is reason to go to MM with those hours. Seems like the rotational did you well.
Did you have any observations of comparing underwriters/salespeople/traders in terms of which seemed the most enjoyable or technical?
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