My dad is a client while I am an SA: How will this affect me?
I was hired as an SA at a BB through traditional means (no direct help from family, connections etc)
My father is a CEO/CFO of a company that this BB does a lot of work for. We are talking 5-6 deals in the last 7 years. Over the years transaction volume has been easily 15B, maybe 20B. This BB handled everything from their IPO, follow-on, to bonds, M&A. Moreover, they are CURRENTLY exclusive advisor working on a large mandate for my dad's company.
As it turns out...I also have been coincidentally placed into the coverage group that covers my dad's company. My dad has client meetings with all the MDs in my group semi-regularly. He told me that 2 of that coverage team's largest deals in the past 10 years were with my dad's company.
I have a few very large concerns...I was really hoping WSO could help me through them. Nobody at the BB knows about my connections so far. Please help me shed some light on this...I am very new as to how this works.
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If I am staffed on the deal for my dad's company, is that allowed compliance-wise? Should I let someone on my team know if they staff me on work for my dad's company? How should I let them know?
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If it suddenly comes out that I am his son, how will that affect me? Will the other interns treat me differently? What about the senior team members? How will it affect the work I get? Is the overall effect positive or negative?
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The group I am in has a pretty bad return rate (~60%). I would hate to pull this card, but if I really really wanted to secure a return, would the MDs knowledge of my relation to my dad seal the deal? Hypothetically, how far would the MDs go to keep this client relationship positive? Would they go so far as to ensure I get a return offer?
1) Tell your superiors while you can. There may not be anything wrong with the relationship depending on your role, but it's going to look stupid on your behalf down the road when you mention "Oh, and by the way, my dad is the CEO/CFO." Just tell them when you get a chance. "I've been meaning to tell you _______ and I just wanted that out there in case there is a conflict of interest."
2) Don't worry about this. Just be friendly, helpful, and so on.
3) My guess is that if the bank is that dependent on your dad for deal flow, he can probably put in a good word to secure your position.
So I tell them on my first day? Or only if I get work relating to the deal?
Also I am not looking to ask my dad to put in a good word for me...not really my style. Would the senior bankers' knowledge of my relationship ties be enough?
Thanks a lot.
I don't fully understand your situation - given your question "So I should tell them on my first day?" I would say you haven't even started. If you haven't started, I am sure that your superiors haven't even told you who their active clients are until you sign an NDA, so your dad must've told you that he does business with them. If your dad's company isn't active, then no worries. If his company is an active deal, then you need to address that with your superiors so that they don't stick you on his deals.
DO NOT do any work - (doesn't matter what it is) if you're assigned to the client until you tell someone on the team about your dad being in senior management. Let your higher ups figure it out - I'm sure they already know what the rules are for compliance and they will definitely place you on another project in order to stay in compliance with any guidelines/laws. It's not your fault who your parents are, after all. I probably wouldn't broadcast it to the office. Just tell an Associate/VP/MD and they'll take care of it I'm sure. If your dad brings them in alot of business, I'm sure it's very possible you an get a return offer just off of the strength of that alone but you never know.
I anticipate this is sarcasm...
Look, I'm just going to throw this out there but there is a very good chance they already know and that it wasn't a coincidence at all that you were placed in that particular group. BB analyst classes have quite a few developmental cases where children of their clients have roles within the IB group.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying you got in solely through connections or anything like that, but chances are if you have the same last name then they are going to know. With that many deals over the years it is very likely the senior bankers know their clients' families, etc it's just the way it works. IB is a relationship business, of course #3 would weigh extremely heavily in your favor.
Pretty much my thoughts, you just happened to land in a group that does a lot of business with a company your dad happens to run? I'm sure no one is aware.... Not trying to be a dick but common man.
Agree
Think of this as networking your way in at the worst. However, it's important to remember that you're your own person so your work should be unimpeachable. Sure, people will assume that you're a business-development hire and the shittier ones might give you attitude but that's their tough luck, just do your best.
Re doing work on your dad's deal. I would probably have a discussion with someone relatively senior regarding your concerns, I'm sure they'll appreciate the decisiveness and good-judgement on your part for bringing it up.
Also, it's a dog-eat-dog world. Pull any cards you can buddy. Just make sure you have a good attitude and good work ethic. You don't not deserve a job just because you've potentially had a leg-up. Don't let anyone's sour grapes prevent you from doing what you need to do.
+1
Did you seriously land an SA role without knowing that that sort of thing is a compliance issue?
This is a compliance headache. But it's not your fault. Shit like this just happens. Best thing you can do is avoid this becoming an issue.
It will be your fault if you don't hit this straight on and let it become a problem.
If you have training for 1 - 2 weeks before starting on the floor, still try to hit this on the head on day #1 or earlier. You may be pre-staffed on deals and you'll cause less disturbance/won't get pre-staffed on your dad's deals the earlier you tell them.
How you take this up the chain depends on the personalities and timing. If you can raise this before you hit the floor, either (i) go through HR or (ii) if you interviewed with an MD in the group, got his/her card etc and can contact him/her directly, contact that MD.
If you don't raise this until you hit the floor, go through the staffer or a VP. However, at that stage, you're a lot less likely to see discretion exercised, a lot more likely to end up being known as the client's kid.
However, in short, get this on the table pretty quick.
As someone mentioned above, they may well know already. However, DO NOT ASSUME that.
- people have addressed this so i'm not going to bother.
- guaranteed senior guys on the team will already know; most of the junior guys will end up hearing one way or another by the end of the summer. don't be an idiot or a shitty person (and have a good attitude) and no one will have an issue with it.
- Yes, assuming you're not hated by everyone (and sometimes even then, if your dad is high profile enough), you will probably get a return offer.
i once worked with an analyst whose dad had deep connections with a large pension fund. funny enough, our firm had been trying to get a mandate from them for years. this analyst swooped in and got all the good work/royal treatment. kid was cool, but was dumb as a rock. didn't even know how to use excel (got frustrated because the =dcf function wasn't showing up on excel). ended up leaving the firm 3 months later to go surf in san diego. anyways, i'm sure you'll be fine but you should disclose it on or before day 1. if before day 1, call your manager and tell him over the phone. i'm sure senior mgmt will like you, but some of the other analysts/assocites may make fun of you. just keep your head down, work hard and don't have a shitty attitude. i'm assuming you're smart so the story above doesn't really apply to you...just more of something that came to mind while reading this.
I don't understand why everyone is saying wait until your first day to bring this up. I would bring this up right now, and have them place you in a different group. Unless they went out of their way to put you in this specific group (which i doubt because it really would be a compliance nightmare) they should have no problem switching you because it could end up being a major headache during the summer. You can say that the bank has worked with your dad's company on a number of deals and you would like to avoid any potential conflict of interest. You don't even have to mention that they are currently working with your dad's company (unless it is public information).
Also, I wouldn't worry about people finding out who your dad is. It is pretty incredible the number of SAs/Analysts at GS/MS that are sons/daughters of VERY significant people. You won't be the only one.
Do you guys seriously think that they know and placed me here on purpose? My family has a very generic name.
For what it's worth, I put this group as my #2 choice after a very well known and revered group here on WSO. I probably was not competitive enough for my 1st choice, but I am pretty sure I doled out a really good interview for this group, since I know a ton about the industry.
Like someone above said...why would they want to place me in their team? Wouldn't having a client's kid in the group create lots of headache?
My gut feeling says that they already know; Try asking your dad about it (?)
No, they don't know. Its a massive compliance issue. If you have a banker liaison, you need to alert it now. its best for everyone involved if you are in a different team. It will reflect well on you by raising asap.
Thank you so much. I needed this urgency. I feel so incredibly, ridiculously stupid because I actually really wanted to get into this group because of its reputation, hence the tunnel vision. Should have considered this side of things.
Now I just hope I don't get stuck into a bad group....
When you disclose the conflict, you should bring up the couple groups you want to work in. I suspect they will try and be helpful.
What you do not want to do is wait until you start, because that just causes a lot more administrative burden which pisses people off AND you'll be less likely to place well.
And for all the kids below, who think you're on easy street because of who your father is, that may have been the case 10 years ago, but the compliance rules are super strict now. Look at what's happening to JP Morgan in China as an example. I realize your case is very different but this is something you need to deal with.
And I say the above point as a MD who has clear compliance responsibilities for the firm and has a lot of training dealing with this specific situation.
" (no direct help from family, connections etc)
My father is a CEO/CFO of a company that this BB does a lot of work for. We are talking 5-6 deals in the last 7 years. Over the years transaction volume has been easily 15B, maybe 20B."
I hope you don't think this is true. Sheltered and stupid is a bad combination.
Listen man, I don't think I'm the stupid one here at all, and it's pretty presumptuous of you to say that. By no direct help I mean it. No phone calls were made, my dad was so busy he didn't even have a clue about my plans this summer until after I called him post super day. I received offers from 3 BB/EBs, and I chose this bank because any kid would have made the same choice if given.
Now, did being his son help indirectly? Sure. I am 100% ready to admit that. I benefited from an infinite amount of things that allowed me to secure this job in the end. But a handout is not one of them.
I'm not saying you shouldn't have accepted. Hell I would have. Just really doesn't speak well to your powers of perception if you think your group doesn't know their top clients son is graduating a top school and looking for a job in IB.
Dear Colleague, from a Compliance perspective, I would think reputational and in terms of conflicts the risk outweighs the benefit.
Thank you
Dear compliance associate,
Make it work.
Regards,
MD
PS you are not my colleague.
I wonder what it is like to be related to an ex-BB ceo and looking for SA
Yeah I feel like why would you go through recruiting with a bunch of firms anyway. If you know you have a straight shot at a bank, just chill out and enjoy recruiting season while everyone panicks
For what it's worth, my group hired somebody who has a parent high up at a client. It's pretty easy to work around it, just need to know ahead of time.
Your dad wouldn't have had to make any calls to influence the hiring process, the relationship manager absolutely knew - stuff like this happens all the time.
This is anecdotal but an MD at MS/GS once told me when speaking about their incoming analyst class: 1/3 of jobs are reserved for relatives of current and former employees 1/3 of jobs are reserved for relatives of clients and prospects 1/3 for the general population, but requires much higher credentials
I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case at almost every bank and consulting firm, it's not even unfair, it is in the best interest of the firm.
If I hired someone knowingly who was a relative of a client and didn't go through an extremely convoluted compliance process. I would be fired. If that person was particularly qualified independently, it would still go through massively more scrutiny. This is a major area of regulatory focus.
This is HK but the scrutiny is even worse in other markets
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/former-top-china-jpmorgan-banker…
HK isn't a fair comparison though. The government has so much influence over business dealings as opposed to NA and Europe, and the culture of bribery is much stronger. Hiring Mr. Client's kid to strengthen a relationship isn't anywhere near as bad as hiring Mr. Politician's kid to pass a bill, or gain regulatory approval for a deal. Even in the case of hiring a client's kid. There's a difference between hiring in exchange for a deal, vs managing the relationship.
I agree with @lordbendtner. I worked in IB in HK and clients expected we would hire their kids as a price of doing business. Both SA and analyst intake classes would have a large component of useless muppets whose parent/uncle/aunt/grandfather was integral to getting us a fee-paying role.
Here in the US, there is a least a sense that this is not fair nor right, even when clients try to exercise this influence. That was completely absent in China.
Those kids are called VIP interns.
I wish my dad was CEO of a company that does deals with BB firms.... this is how you get on that partner fast track. Year one Analyst. Year 2 rain maker.
Why don't you just tell HR and let them figure out the rest...
This is funny to me. OP with generic last name gets into this group after giving an awesome interview showing all kinds of interest and knowledge about the industry. He probably said things showing understanding of subtle industry nuances that took the guys in the group years to learn and they thought he was some kind of genius. Now it all makes sense. LOL.
I don't think this is a bad thing. What was he supposed to do? Name drop his dad from day 1?
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I mean if I had built-up knowledge in an industry over the years due to family ties, I would sure as hell leverage that to get into whichever group would be most impressed by that knowledge.
Ha. Not really! I learned that I have to hedge more and be less certain on purpose in discussions regarding the sector my dad works in. I made the mistake in the beginning of sounding too sure of stuff.
At one other bank, when I was interviewing for the same group, I had analysts to VPs challenge my views on the industry (views that my dad and his peers swear by like gravity). My dad's company and his peers actually came up once in a discussion and I even had my views on their acquisition strategy attacked to pieces by a hard-ass associate, even though I know their strategy pretty damn well. I even remember him saying something along the lines of "you should have done more homework".
I think the key to interviews is to FEEL1) comfortable and 2) familiar with the subject matter. More of a vibe than actual knowledge, if that makes sense. If it's anything the interview process has taught me, is that IBD is NOT an ideas and insight-driven business. Credibility is EVERYTHING. And an SA has 0 credibility. You need to display that even if that is not the case.
throwaway1020
Announce it to the entire office, then try your hardest to become the worst performing intern to ever get a return offer.
On a sidenote, how did your dad get to ceo/cfo? What's his background?
deleted
This is not an issue and yes the bank did know about your father. To avoid conflict, you will not be staffed on any project(s) for your father's company. Let's focus on what YOU need to do as I've seen two opposite cases in my analyst class:
Realize you got in not 100% on merit so you need to bust your fucking balls and gain respect from your peers and others in the group by hard work and good work; OR
You can be the most hated SA in the class and be the clown of the group. While you will still get a return offer, your peers will hate you and likely not help/socialize/or want to be associated with you.
The very fact you raised your concern on WSO tells me either A) you are a troll, or B) seriously sheltered but willing to learn (a good thing). I strongly recommend option #1 above.
Man, this is gonna be fun. BRB grabbing popcorn.
Unfortunately, I have no useful input here, as my experience is in Asia where anything goes.
It means you're going to get an offer.
But in all seriousness, echoing the advice others have given. You should be more than fine. If anything I'd use the time between now and your start date to learn up more about your dad's industry. Would make you a more knowledgable summer analyst.
nice fishing. It was entertaining.
email hr before the summer starts (ie this weekend), and cc the most senior person you interviewed with / whomever called to make you the job offer.
for what it's worth, everybody will assume you got there because of who your dad is. in fact, you may really have just gotten there (and everywhere up to this point in your life) because of who your dad is. but your life will be much easier and happier if you stop guilt tripping yourself for being born on 3rd base. you can still accomplish a lot, and prove that you're capable of doing stuff on your own (for the most part). if you're really lucky, maybe you can end up like donald drumpf.
I am no expert in banking or compliance, but in my humble opinion the answer to your problem is right in front of you. Just get your dad to call his favorite MD or two and have him tell them:
That he's excited to do business with them going forward.
By following this course of action and keeping a low profile I strongly believe that you would avoid any negative connotation of being the client's kid, have a great experience, and get a full time offer if you do well.
wouldnt recommend this, the OP is an adult and having his father call will reflect poorly on him
And for all the posters who are saying he stay in the role, the risk of conflict of interest is much worse for his father than it is for the OP. Imagine if some muckraking journalist just to cause trouble publishes an article saying the father was directing business to the group his son works in. Even if it's completely untrue, that sort of thing can snowball.
There is only one course of action here.
Oh they know, what I do not understand is why they'd place you in that group. It could be conflict of interests, surely, but could also be part of some kinda deal your dad has with a MD from the firm. Look at the size of the deal and what experience you can get, it'll look good on the resume, maybe next year you want to go somewhere else. You don't get someone business for that long and that amount by just shaking his hand and smiling
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