Paying for girls
I think it is common believe that guys are required to pay for dinner on a first date, and arguably on the second and third date as well. As a believer that traditions should be honored, I happily pick up the check when I am on a date with a girl.
It goes without saying I have had girlfriends in the past, but I moved to NYC recently. I am currently dating a girl for 4 - 5 months now. It is safe to say I have reached the 'relationship' stage. I have no idea how much my girlfriend makes exactly, but I estimate it to be low six figure-ish a year. Even though she is not very high maintenanced (as opposed to various other horror stories I heard from friends), she seems perfectly fine letting me pay on every date, drink occasion and other random expenses.
My question is - is this common among corporate NYC types, and if so, how far and until what stage does this so called 'etiquette' go?
lol
She sounds like an unfortunate person. She should atleast offer.
agreed
I pay everything 50/50 with the gf, unless I'm drunk and insist on paying. I wouldn't accept any other arrangement.
this. this. so much this. ever since we switched to this money has been talked about so much less.
OP, if you're embarrassed on letting her pay, just have her buy take out and booze.
Are we talking part-time model, or full-time model? Swimsuit model, or hand model?
The random model drop smells trollish. Otherwise, this is unfortunately the case in NYC. We used to have girls that I worked with come out to clubs and expect the guys to pay for drinks/bottles. They made the same amount as the guys, and none of us were dating.
the bottle whores!
Kudos for reaching the 'relationship' stage...
But your post is confusing... If you are so hard up for 'tradition', it doesn't matter if you are in NY or not...
That said, here is stuff you can use: Next time you guys plan an outing & you feel like you are paying more than your 'budget' just say something like 'that is too expensive'. You would soon know if she would rather split the bill or split up with you. Either way you win
Unless she's totally naive about how dating today works, it sounds like you're being taken for a ride. Most girls I've gone on a first date with at least offer to split the bill.
Instagram model?
And there it is folks... +1 SB
deleted
This is where I like to introduce the "getting laid to paid" ratio (GLTP). While we can all agree that long-term relationships should be closer to a 50/50 split of the bills, for those of us who prefer short-term relationships, the GLTP ratio is a great measurement tool.
A high GLTP % indicates a solid return on your investment, aka getting laid a high amount relative to bills paid and dollars spent. While a GLTP % below a certain threshold signals a sell / transition to another entity (or equity). Someone smarter than me can figure out how to dollarize this ratio.
that kid who got the Evercore offer but is a virgin is already plugging away on this...
I'm also curious what he means when he says "model." is she like an aspiring SI swimsuit model or a clerk at abercrombie whose job description says model?
OP is going to read my last comment and have a mental breakdown because he realized he's only been laid twice in 6 months.
Haha! I must've missed that thread but it sounds pretty rich.
I find that some situations require the use of different valuation approaches. I also like to use the Effort Ratio for short-term relationships. Effort (measured in hours) / Number of times laid. Adjustments can be made as needed to account for higher/lower quality effort expended, etc. The goal is to keep the ratio as low as possible
Most underrated comment in the thread.
I just had an all time low GLTP ratio. I thought it was a good long term investment that would pay dividends down the road but she decided shes an emotional twat who can't get over a prior relationship. 1 lay for prob close to $500. I think she's the hottest I ever got with so that's some consolation. With that said I will be going for a 1 lay for a vodka soda ratio this weekend for sure.
I thought this was going to be a thread about prostitutes.
. . . . . . . .
.....and I was kind of right.
Reminds me of the old joke we've all heard about the economist and the woman at the bar where he asks her, after they've had a few, if she would go up to his room for a million dollars. She blushes and says, "Why of course!" He counters and says, "What if it was only a hundred?" She gets angry and says, "What the hell kind of woman do you think I am?" He comes back with, "Well we've already established that, now we're just determining the price." Oldie but a goodie.
I don't think you can go wrong on this one.
Leaving aside the rightness or wrongness of paying 100% or splitting it, so many guys in the finance world date up the food chain in terms of looks/coolness (whatever you want to call it) by flashing around the fact that they're an investment banker at ____ (fill in the "prestigious" name) that it's no surprise a woman wouldn't think of paying. Unless they're in the field or a related field (consulting, law, etc) they have no idea that an analyst makes $75-85k base + bonus, they just read that guys in finance make outrageous sums of money at a young age and probably don't think a thing about it. They think you're 23 and make $400K because that's the data that trickles down to the masses.
The situation that @"TechBanking" describes used to piss me off more than anything though: going out with colleagues who were paid the same but it was assumed the guys would pay. That's not too big of a problem if there's a chance for later carnal knowledge but when it's co-workers who make the same it's just BS.
First dates should always be drinks or something. And if you are both at parity on an income level them maybe you should split the check.
Stepping back though, pick up the fucking tab. I cannot believe the brokeness going on in this thread. This isn't a networking dinner, you want ass. You want it, you pay for it. This doesn't mean a chick should use you or milk you for endless dinners, but if you are dating someone who makes a good amount less (which means many instances if a guy is in finance) then you should simply pay. Once you are dating or living with someone then you can take turns or whatever, but until them cough up some dough.
These discussions are akin to the anti tipping discussions. Everyone wants to play, no one wants to pay.
lol @"TNA". Very true. Most guys don't want to accept it but you gotta pay to play when you're aiming for >7/8's. There are plenty of 4's out there who are a bit chunky and will split the bill or just outright pay. And you'll probably get laid the first time out.
OP, NYC's a shit show when it comes to dating when you're the guy and early in your career. Always has been, always will be. Like you acknowledged, for every mid 20's hot woman there are thousands of single guys in their 30's who make good money and will gladly pay for every date. They may be the same chicks you were hitting two years previously in college by feeding them $10 plastic half gallon bottles of vodka mixed with fruit punch and treating them to breakfast on your dining card. It doesn't mean every chick is a gold digger slut or that you can't or shouldn't be getting laid by attractive women, but you're playing a completely different game now.
Definitely a downside of NYC, plenty of girls, but endless amounts of older guys to scoop them up. Was this the same deal when you were younger in SF? Everybody says that SF has a horrible guy-to-girl ratio, which doesn't make sense to me because girls are obsessed with that city.
Thanks for the comments so far. The model comment was not trolling or a way to boast on an online forum (why the hell would I do that - I hardly post here), but merely illustrating that she is a good looking girl who gets a lot of attention. Given NYC has the highest concentration of millionaires, successful and good looking guys, it almost seems to me a matter of cherry-picking for hot girls.
Given the quite childish reactions, I removed the 'model' part from the original post.
There are a good amount more young chicks than guys.
She's a good looking girl that gets attention, and it sounds like she can actually pay her bills. She's a winner and has plenty of options so, as you've mentioned, she is in a position to cherry pick. From her perspective - why should she settle for a guy that wants to split the bill when she's got 10 other guys lined up willing to pay all the time?
came here expecting a thread about prostitutes... you sneaky bastard op.
If you're a guy in finance and you're dating a girl who makes low six figures, plan on paying for dates it's simple. I'm a traditional guy and I insist on paying for almost if not all expenses unless you're my long term girlfriend. Unfortunately this can get expensive when you're dating 2-4 women in NYC.
^^^^^
Thinly veiled brag attempt?
hardly. I said I spent ~ $500 to get laid once. I said it was some consolation she was hot but far from a humble brag. I'm actually pretty rattled about it ATM.
OP do what you feel like you need to do, but there's some guy out there regretting the fact that Justin Verlander is banging his ex due to a disagreement over who would pick up the tab.
*4-5 months *NYC *Unsure whether it's a relationship
Your girlfriend has like 6 other boyfriends.
This^^^^ You might have some Biz Markie "Just A Friend" shit going on OP.
haha! Goldie on his game!
OP, if she's on tinder, you're fucked
On a somewhat unrelated note, I really like it when girls are appreciative, even of small shit. Like, I was hanging out with a girl the other day and bought us burritos. I was thinking about other shit and slightly drunk and money didn't even enter my mind. It's El Famous Burrito; shit's like six bucks.
Anyway, she texts me that night saying that she appreciated that and bla bla.
It' like, oh... I forgot that even happened and she appreciates it. Cool. Good girl.
If you are a young dude just creep out Murray Hill. How someone cannot get laid by at least one random chick a week is beyond me. You young bucks think shit is hard now? Imagine back in the day when cell phones just started getting cool, no tinder, nothing. Guys walking around with HD phones, snapchat, tinder, etc and bitching about paying for dinner or getting laid. Absurd.
I still remember calling girls at home in high school and the feeling of my stomach dropping when her dad answered.
"uhhhhh, is Emily home?" craps pants
Yeah, that was never good. Some would cross examine you a little bit too.
I loved it when my Dad would answer (I have 2 sisters). We'd be dying at the dumb questions he'd ask the kid, like rolling in laughter and then he'd ramp up the weirdness.
That really sucked.
To make people laugh and for the younger folks to think about how different it used to be, we not only didn't have Tinder, we didn't have cell phones when I was in college and for the first few years after college they were pretty rare. Texting didn't really exist until I was in my later 20's, and email was new when I was a freshman, it was through Pine (basically a shit DOS dial up program) and no one used it. When you wanted to communicate with a girl the most passive form was talking on the phone. The most likely was, gasp, having to speak in person. And when you made a plan with a girl you had to say let's meet on Thursday at 8 at XYZ and there was little to no changing it because no one had a phone.
Curious: is Tinder really just a hook up app?
I wasnt sure if he meant over the course of dates leading up to sex or one night on bottle service and ending up bringing home a girl from his table
Yup, pay to play world. She's hot and knows what she's worth to most guys. Even so, I've seen guys let themselves get trampled by that idea. It's a bad idea to spend a lot of money at any point of a courtship. The old country women have a saying..."What you do to get her is what you've got to do to keep her". The dynamics of a relationship are established very early. Once the dynamics are established they are very hard to change. With that said, a lot of money is relative.
I grew up very formal. I have never let a girl pay for dinner, or pretty much anything ever. There are a few instances (my birthday dinner, etc) but I was just raised that if you can afford it, you pay.
Getting laid is all good and fun, but what I've found is the girl you need to ditch is the girl who doesn't say thank you. As a guy who's been in a couple serious relationships and is now married, I can promise you this will be the defining factor between if you are wasting your money or if you are going to really get something out of it.
Have some standards, don't be scared of losing the girl. There are a lot of attractive girls in NYC, and plenty with decent manners.
I thought you were saying paying for ....
Racking up $500 on dates in NYC (and other cities like San Fran,Chicago,Miami,LA) can be very easy by date 2-3. I would say stick with drinks and apps to keep the bill low and to make a quicker move to head back to your apartment. Getting laid after dinner dates is very low probability in short term dating.
Like its already been said you have to pay to play so have a gameplan have a set group of places so you can sort of map out the possible weekly expenses on dates. If a chick never offers to pay for anything or says thank you drop her with the quickness as she doesn't care about you or is an unaware self inflated cunt...
Also no comes from going out with an instagram model more than once.
You're situation is not as bad as mine, and I think you are bringing it up at the right time (a few months in to the relationship). I am all for chivalry and that is why I am still paying after 2 years with my gf. I have brought the topic up, since she is 1 year older than me and was working, and I was in my final year of undergraduate. But each time I bring it up she says the gentlemen has to pay and accuses me of not being a gentleman and then brings up a bunch of examples of where I failed as a gentlemen. I myself believe in the man taking care of the women, but I tend to hold that more true if you are actually married. My gf makes more than me but that will change once I start my new consulting position. I do not plan on continuing my spending on her trend, and I think this could break the relationship. I would advise you to completely confront your gf and talk about the issue until a deal is made and expectations set. This would avoid you wasting time long term. It will also avoid you being stuck in a relationship that ticks ou off because you have to keep spending, especially when you meet other girls and maybe don't hook up because you you would feel guilty or feel like your girlfriend would know. This became an issue for me. During the first I cheated occasionally and had side chicks that each lasted a few months in rotation. Then the 2nd year of the relationship I met a really hot and smoking girl who was going to a top law school. She even baked for me and we didnt start dating. BUT, because after 1 year and all my financial and time investments with my gf, I felt I would compromise my position with my gf, and so one big fight later, I completely blew off the law school chick and she hated my guts forever. So, be really careful if you keep paying. She may not only get to use your money, but also have you by the balls, in terms of you evaluating if you should explore options and if leaving her, risking the relationship is worth the investment (ie. time and money) put in. So in my position, I have regrets of not putting my foot down earlier. Because I set expectations all wrong, anything less diminishes her opinion and niceness to me until I do something to win her favor back. So I really got screwed over. I think its ok to do it at the start, and even for a few months, but BRING it up and resolve it before you get to serious.
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