Prop Firm Trading or Hedge Fund Trading With No Degree?
So I'd like to look at this hypothetically as a potential plan. I am currently trading during the days and refining my trading strategy/niche. I'm still working nights, but my plan to put $5,000 as risk capital (I'm willing to lose) into an online prop trading firm and trade very conservatively and be hyper aware of risk management and position sizing. In other words I'm not that green to just blow it.
The question: I am going to be taking round 1 test for the CMT this May. If in 3 years I become certified and have made let's just say 150k off that 100k from the prop firm how likely would it be to get hired at a prop firm in NYC? How interested would a hedge fund be in a trader that has proved himself first at the prop firm as successful and has the CMT certification, but no degree? Does wall street care if you have the degree if you're proven as tenacious and profitable? I will literally live at my desk. I pretty much already do.
Yes I know I could just get the finance degree, but that's 4 years of studying bullshit classes when I can have 4 more years of market experience and studying real trades and their strategies/systems to develop my own. When looking at the opportunity cost it doesn't make sense if what I want to do ultimately is be self directed managing my own multi-million dollar fund and not selling my time for a job and a salary.
But I want the experience and networking associated with Wall Street
Thanks in advance I appreciate any feedback
You'd be a damn fool to follow your plan.
What would you recommend as the best plan if what I want to do is be a trader for 10ish years then move into trading my own fund? Thanks
Have very wealthy parents who are willing to give you money. Because you'll probably struggle to raise third party funds from anywhere else.
Doesn't work like that, as in that path (at least to my knowledge) doesn't exist, and your strategies wouldn't be scalable for a fund anyways. The closest thing I can think of is a CPO role, I know a few, but they are great traders that have a few clients. Think family or a few wealthy people, but not HF money. The only prop firm that is going to hire you is an arcade, and the better arcades still want you to have a degree, so your plan falls through there as well.
What's the best way to launch your own HF in 10ish years? There are tons of posts on this site about breaking in, but your CMT and technical analysis will get you nowhere in that pursuit. Also keep in mind the market is saturated with HFs so it will probably be more difficult to get funding now than in the past.
Hypothetical scenario, in 7 years, if you're only making OK money or stop making money or worse even start losing money, where will you be? You'll be fucked with no job experience worth a damn because trading doesn't matter to any other profession especially if it's for your own personal accounts (or arcade firm), and you won't even have a degree or the means to pay for one.
What do I think is the best route for you? Do you want to take on the enormous risk of being an arcade trader? Do you want to work for a market making or HFT prop firm? S&T at a bank? HF? Physical? Quant? The answer depends entirely on where you want to go, if that's still what you want to do now that you know why your plan is flawed.
Even the ETFs (eg QAI, GURU on NYSEARCA) which do nothing but study what little is disclosed about hedge fund trades don't make stellar returns.
Tell me, how will you study real trades and the strategies/systems that hedge funds use?
I'm not looking to study how hedge funds trade. I'm looking to be profitable on my own strategy at a prop firm and I'm wondering if hedge funds hire prop firm traders. I'm studying for the CMT so I'd have that along with the Series 56. Is that along with an audited P&L not enough for getting a job as a trader?
Trafigura has an apprenticeship programme that hires people straight out of high school.
http://futuretalent.trafigura.com/en/sectors/metals-and-minerals/#Appre…
Maybe get my 2 year in Computer IS and undergrad in Finance? I'll check around to see what is the best routes to study for HF employment
the only worthwhile piece of advice i've seen is: go get your degree. straight up. i was in your shoes at 21 & the best advice i received was: if you want to play with the big boys, you have to know what the big boys know.
as far as everyone throwing do do on your ideas, make your own destiny man. if that's the route you want to break in to wall street, then do it & don't listen to these other guys who may have had your idea but not the ambition to follow it through.
my impression of your conversation is a distaste with the amount of effort you have to spend to get a piece of paper that says "congratulations, you graduated." but here's the truth man, college is the shit. use your decision making strategy like you would for a trade, and analyze the reason you are avoiding pursuing a degree.
Also while it might sound like bullshit, going to a university of any sorts gives you much more networking leverage. Even if its not a top school you can find the people who know where they're going. In my experience the ability to meet and get to know a ton of people going places across a number of fields is more valuable than my actual degree.
Are there any Hedge Funds / Prop Shops which hire school leavers?? (Originally Posted: 12/24/2013)
Hey
I'm a 17 year old from India and will be completing my ISC board exam this year, I'm also an options trader and have made quite a bit of money doing that, I have no interest in going to university as I want practical experience, so I was wondering if there are any hedge funds or prop shops which hire school leavers, I don't really care about the salary or the bonus, all I want is training and if possible a professional qualification.
Please do let me know if you guys know any.
Regards
Yes Vish! All hedge funds usually hire school leavers that have made "quite a bit of money" gambling in options! Would you like $10mln for a start? It's also well known that hedge funds will give you nice shiny diplomas for you to hang on the wall to make your mommy and daddy proud... Go to school, no one hires drop outs; unless they are geniuses that have proved themselves in the past, or have the all mighty grace of the family connection. Some of my co-workers started in banking without having gone to Uni, but not anymore.
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