So if Goldman gives so few FT offers...
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because goldman historically hires almost entirely from their sa class and does little ft recruiting
I think aardvarkaa meant: "assuming you really want to work for Goldman Sachs full-time, then the "only" (?) way to get in would be through the SA program."
But the OP's concern was a FT offer, not about particularly wanting to work for GS with no compromise. In that case, I would go with another comparable ibank with a higher conversion rate (especially in this economy). But I think having the GS name on your resume would still put you ahead of many even if you fail to get a FT offer. Then again, in this job market, I would rather have a FT offer from any decent ibank than just having the GS name on my resume without an offer.
nah aardvarkaa was right, my question was about working specifically for GS full time. I just didn't realize they only hired from summer analysts. Is the usually the case at BB?
They hire way more than just summer analysts, they just have high standards...they regularly interview plenty of kids full-time that didn't SA there...of course, GS is just hard to get, period.
They do hire outside of the summer analyst class. However, the people I know who got the position were 2 years ago. It is a different market nowadays.
Goldman historically hires a large summer class and at the end of the summer, they cherry-pick the best for FT offer. When the market was still at its peak between 05 and 07, GS definitely recruits in the fall. But that does not imply in any mean that you will be have a better chance to get in.
In general, most banks will fill in at least 70-80% of the FT class from their SA, so even with the low FT offer rate from Goldman SA class, your chance of getting a FT is still significantly higher if you are a SA.
IBD SA: 10000 applicants -> 1000 interviews -> 200 SA -> 120 FT. Rate of success is 1.2%. IBD Fall: 10000 applicants -> 1000 interviews -> 30 FT. Rate of success is 0.3%. (Lots of assumptions above, but you get the idea)
The biggest upside of "intern at another bank and apply for GS senior year" is that you have a much better chance to secure a FT before your senior year even begins. So even if you end up not getting into GS, you are still in a very good position. However, avoiding working at GS in the summer does not improve your chance to get into Goldman for FT at all.
If you mess up the SA interview or don't even get an interview, would they still give you a chance for FT?
If you didn't get an interview at all, and maybe networked or fixed the problems with your resume then you should be able to get an interview. However, if you already interviewed, and did poorly, I don't believe they will give you another shot. Citi asks you before you apply if you ever interviewed for any position at the bank, and if you did they find out the result and look at the notes taken. I don't know if GS does the same thing, but I would put a lot of money on them doing so.
I believe they take about 70% of their SA class
The summer analyst class has a huge leg up in getting a full time position over people who didn't intern there. People who didn't get a full time offer my year still had the opportunities to interview at basically any bank / for any position they wanted because of their GS summer experience.
If you didn't get in for SA, GS / a bank doesn't hold it against you come full time. In fact, have several friends who didn't get an SA position at GS later received full time offers from GS because they had kept in touch with alums, interviewers, and knew what to expect from the interviews. So if you are interviewed for an SA position, that's a sign that you are "qualified on paper" but need to seal the deal with the interview.
A natural question is why GS even bothers having so many interns if the conversion percentage to full time offer is so low. The answer is GS can afford to really test out a large number of interns and cherry pick the ones who GS has the possibility of losing to other banks. The upside for GS is that if they get a really outstanding class, they have the right to hire all if all inters are really that good (market conditions permitting).
Chase Us, Break In, http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot.com/
But if you take the SA with Goldman and don't get an offer for FT, what are your chances of getting FT at other banks? Won't every bank ask you why you didn't get an offer for FT?
are summers at gs much tougher than in other bbs??
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