Summer Analyst Hours at BB/EB

ibpotential's picture
Rank: Baboon | banana points 166

What hours should someone expect as a summer analyst at a BB or EB. I obviously know that a FT analyst can expect 80+ per week, but is that the same for a SA?

Mod Note (Andy): Don't miss the most upvoted comments below: Top comment 1, Top comment 2.

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Comments (75)

Jul 19, 2018

I'm doing 85/90

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Jul 19, 2018

What do you exactly do for 90 hours a week?

Jul 19, 2018

That's a GREAT question! From what I've heard, there is a lot of down time (while at the office) and then hyper focus on a task. Very non-productive. The IB world needs to get much better at using technology, work flow, etc. Face time requirements simply to show one's face is ridiculous after you've proven yourself to be responsible and competent. SO MUCH can be done with technology today. They could probably knock off 30 hours a week of BS and give you guys a much better life!

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Jul 19, 2018

The key issue here is that any half-decent MD is literally running around all day at meetings and taking calls etc. So the workflow reaches a critical bottle neck at the top of the pyramid. If an MD is faced with the option to either engage in discourse with a client, strategize internally among product partners, do follow up reach-out, or delegate menial tasks to his junior execution team, he will always put a premium on the activity which will yield the highest potential monetary outcome. This only makes sense, and is a sad reality / consequence of being a junior banker. For MDs, productive time during the workday when you can engage in high-impact activities is limited, and the after-hours is for junior execution.

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Jul 19, 2018

Classic "hurry up and wait" model. Very flawed and inefficient. Do it this way because it's always been done this way BS. It will take one courageous individual to build a better mousetrap and the rest will follow.

Completely get that MDs should be spending their time generating revenue. If not, they should be fired immediately. The busy work should be able to be done, by juniors using efficient tech and logistics. The rest of the world has figured out how to be more effective and efficient. They don't rely on a junior employee to "pull it off" at the end of a 15 - 20 hr shift. In fact, that's when most things get screwed up.

I get that that's how it works. But it doesn't have to work like that.

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Aug 3, 2018

Solomon says that's what he's going to focus on improving hours for IB from ~90 a week to ~75 a week. I'm assuming since Goldman will do it, many banks will follow along.

Aug 3, 2018

Source?

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Aug 4, 2018

I couldn't find the recent article but in 2014 he said something similar. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/...
Also on his Wiki Page they quoted him saying it again.

Aug 10, 2018

What David said was not as black and white as this. What he essentially said was, while he did want the hours to get better, instead of him bringing about any change, he wants people to take more ownership of their time and maintain their work-life balance accordingly.

Does make you think, as an analyst, would you have the balls to go ahead and "maintain" your work-life balance when no one else is doing so.

Aug 5, 2018

I think that banks are going to have to start cutting hours. We hear of them increasing comp packages to entice undergrads to come and associates/analysts to stay, but tech and other financial service jobs are starting to drain a lot of talent from the major banks. Kids these days are way too aware of the other opportunities available to them and don't want to work 90 hours a week.

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Jul 27, 2018

Sits on WSO and lies / spread misinformation about his SA stint...

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Jul 29, 2018

Just a lot of shit that has to happen soon and I'm not fast enough yet to crank it out perfectly before 10

Jul 29, 2018

To follow up I'm in a very busy but small group with a lot of attrition, all the Inters grind

Jul 19, 2018

Can anyone give just a general range of pay at a good firm for a SA

Jul 19, 2018

$85K USD pro-rated for your ten week internship is pretty standard.

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Jul 19, 2018

One firm I know of, won't mention by name but I'm sure others are aware of, pays $40/hr which by the end of the summer comes out to ~ 40K pre tax.

Jul 19, 2018

Isn't that the standard?

Jul 19, 2018

Not sure

Jul 19, 2018

Do you have any introductions to the industry left?

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Funniest
Jul 19, 2018

Unfortunately not

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Jul 20, 2018

Must be WF.

Jul 29, 2018

WF & DB indeed do this.

Jul 29, 2018

DB doesn't do that... at least at their Jax office from what I've heard. WF is 100% a sweatshop, they got interns working until 4am on a Sunday night

Jul 29, 2018

Ahh, was referring to the SF office.

Aug 10, 2018

if you get paid hourly, you get 2x pay after 60 hours (CA laws).

Jul 29, 2018

I think CS & BAML (to a lesser $ amount) do as well

Jul 29, 2018

Great username

Aug 2, 2018

HSBC $40/hr

Jul 30, 2018

Something about California state law has some firms (DB/CS/Houlihan/Citi/Others?) known for paying 1.5-2x for OT hours to LA/SF interns which is how they can hit those $40k+ figures out there. And I imagine lower tier banks ultimately pay their summers better than JP/GS/MS because they can't afford not to (e.g. I've heard of people at WF hitting good numbers too), i.e. they can't lean on prestige alone to keep top talent around...

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Aug 2, 2018

Any info on if Moelis LA pays significantly higher than normal due to the CA requirements?

Aug 5, 2018

It's that CA state law states that anything after 8 hours a day or the first 8 hours on the 7th consecutive workday must be paid 1.5x the hourly rate, and anything over 12 a day or starting on the 8th consecutive workday must be paid 2x the hourly rate. For this reason, firms that pay interns by the hour often limit intern hours in CA.

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Jul 20, 2018

I do approx. 60-70 hours a week, mainly cuz at my BB, weekends for interns are protected and HR enforces it very strictly. I agree with others that there is a lot of downtime. I'd say work really picks up around 3-4pm.

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Jul 21, 2018

It's a crazy set up. If real work doesn't start to mid afternoon on most days, why not have the analysts come in at noon vs. 9am . I repeatedly hear that analysts try to appear to be busy in the morning. Whatever it is they are doing, they could be doing from home. Just to be available in case an Associate or MD needs them is ridiculous. There is this thing called the internet, the cloud, wifi, Dropbox, etc. Imagine the increased sleep and productivity gain without the exhaustion factor.

Yes I have a different perspective. I'm in the results business. Nothing else matters. Several yrs ago I changed my office from a traditional set up for myself and staff to an office without an office for me. I literally had no office. So, no place to hang out, waste time, BS, etc. I came in to meet with clients or meet with employees for specific things. No water cooler BS for me.

Got so much more done in far less time. Increased firm revenue (which increased employee bonuses) while increasing downtime, Also know for a fact staff enjoyed me not being around to mettle in their jobs. I may have texted them 10 times per 10 but it was task specific.

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Aug 2, 2018

I agree. Like some people have mentioned above, it's probably a, "this is the way things have always been done and these people need to be in the office" thing. At a minimum, possibly a rotating shift system makes sense so there are always some analysts in the office to handle whatever work might need to be done in the morning. Or, you know, take advantage of the internet like you said.

Just because people are in the office for endless hours and miserable doesn't mean they're accomplishing more. "Work expands to fill the time allotted."

Aug 2, 2018

Exactly! Love the idea of creating shift pools with everyone taking their turns. I have no idea what the headcount numbers are but as an example, if there are 15 analysts twiddling their thumbs until work is required, why not have 3 shifts of 5 analysts (or something like that) so you always have coverage in case something comes up but the ones not on shift can get rest, work out, decompress, etc.

Have a brother who is a human performance EXPERT (PHD in neuro psych, consults with companies involved in 24 hr shift work - chemical plants, trains, planes, etc.) He has negotiated a better work environment including shift schedules for many companies. In doing so, he has proved fatigue has been a root cause for train derailments, chemical spills, etc. Incorporating his solutions have saved company's dramatic amounts of money due to minimizing human error while making for a much more pleasant work environment for the actual workers. He is currently working on a project with the FAA to improve air travel safety.

This stuff is real. In every case, his clients were doing things "because they had always been done that way before". They have embraced change and all stakeholders are better for it. In some cases changing has literally saved a company hundreds of millions of dollars in lawsuits from potential accident avoidance. Very tangible stuff.

The banking world needs to embrace change. It will actually make them far more productive.

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Jul 21, 2018

65 with no weekend

Aug 5, 2018

Why no weekend? Are you leaving at like 6 or 7 PM every night? For 2019 SA HR told me I'd work 60 with no weekends, why can't we just work late a few days then have protected weekends?

Aug 10, 2018

Use your head. no weekend means that you're not working weekend

Jul 27, 2018

First post is bullshit. If he is in for 85 / 90 hours a week as an intern he is beyond unproductive / wasting time / just there for the sake of being there.

Most people work about 65 to 75 / week with relatively unproductive mornings and highly varying work at night (might sit around for a few hours in the evening until something urgent needs to be done).

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Jul 27, 2018

I have ZERO idea how interns are claiming to work these many hours. I have 2 interns working for me now on 10-week stints. The first week was corp training, it took them another 2 weeks to figure out which way was up, the last week is for wrap-up. So that means I only really get them for 6 weeks and I couldn't possibly imagine giving them something for 6 weeks that requires all this overtime you all are claiming.

Aug 3, 2018

Man your math sucks

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Aug 3, 2018
BlastBorn:

Man your math sucks

Um what? Read it again.

Aug 3, 2018

Sorry bro, was sloshed when I wrote that. Let's please all get past the part where I am on WSO after getting wasted lol

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Jul 28, 2018

[deleted]

Jul 28, 2018

do you also work in the weekend?

Jul 29, 2018

[deleted]

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Jul 29, 2018

I don't know why this is so unbelievable. Average 12-1am nights then with weekend work you easily hit this

Jul 29, 2018

Have many friends in BB summer programs (I'm a freshman) who are working 90+

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Jul 29, 2018

Buddy, your friends are lying to you.

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Aug 3, 2018

My MM group this summer had us pulling probably 90-100 avg and 115 max

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Jul 29, 2018

At one of the EB considered to be a sweatshop (not moelis) and I average 70-75 hrs a week, one week hovered around 90.

Seriously dont see how it can be any longer

Jul 29, 2018

At one of the EB considered to be a sweatshop (not moelis) and I average 70-75 hrs a week, one week hovered around 90.

Seriously dont see how it can be any longer

Jul 29, 2018

BB M&A groups get worked a lot, typically the most, can confirm interns have averaged 90-110 a week. Heard similar situation for industrials/nat resources group at some BBs

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Jul 30, 2018

I think there are definitely times when you could get pushed towards the 110+ hours when you're asked to be at the printer. Eye balls are popping out lmao

Jul 30, 2018

One friend last summer at a BB did about 75 a week, strict enforce on no weekends. Few other friends at a different BB group did 60-70 a week, also no weekends really.

Also did have a friend at a top BB that worked around 80, so it varies for sure, and doesn't necessarily correlate with how good a group is. All 3 aforementioned BB groups are one of the better groups at each respective bank. Just really depends on the mercy of the staffer and that bank's policy for SAs.

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Jul 30, 2018

im at an average middle market and im 80 + a week...no im not exaggerating, and no im not pretending to be slammed with work every hour of the day. It just so happens that the bulk of my work load gets dropped on me way later in the day.

around 4 it picks up significantly. the problem for me is im working under the analyst who is known for getting the biggest workload, and anything and everything that could possibly be delegated to an intern does. Some of the work absolutely sucks - ive done some seriously mind numbing administrative work because we lack the resources to outsource it.

the hours dont bother me because I actually like being able to help where I can. what bothers me is that none of the associates have any idea that Im working as much as I am because the analyst secretly delegates work to me that the associates assume he is doing. I dont know if anyone else has been in this situation before but im pretty frustrated about it. hes a genuinely nice guy too, just feel like every once and a while it would be good to get some recognition beyond "appreciate your help buddy" from said analyst.

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Jul 31, 2018

When I interned, i had 2 weeks of 105 hours and one week of 110. Typically 80-90 hours depending on if we had social events.

As an analyst, I still work around the clock but I'm able to do it from home a lot more which is nice.

Jul 31, 2018

Redacted. Have a friend working there but still don't want to name individual banks.

Aug 2, 2018

Seriously? whats your source?

If this is true it's absolutely heinous...

Most Helpful
Aug 1, 2018

A few things:

1) Variation of activity / live deals across and within - There is significant variation across banks, within groups in banks and even within subgroups / deal teams - so it's hard to say what is "typical"

2) Weekend policies - Different banks have different policies for protected weekends - some have it the whole weekend, some of just Saturdays and some have no weekend rules

3) Variation of group / deal team structure - depending on the structure within a group and the group's size, you can have a constant workstream of longer burn projects (CEM, pitchbook, forecast model, MP, etc.) that provide an immense amount of work to pick from, especially if you have multiple deals and teams are staffed lean. Variation in structure can lead deal team members to play multiple roles, especially during times of immense activity

4) Productivity ("the bottleneck") - from my experience, it's rarely the case that an MD is a hold up. However, my group structure is atypical (i.e. aforementioned variation) in so that mid and junior level deal team members have significant rope to run with for key marketing documents and workstreams (we are a niche group and have developed trust / rapport over years)

5) Productivity ("the learning curve") - SAs have not built efficiencies in tasks or work flows, because they have never done them. For our interns (including the one we currently have), we typically like to challenge them - "go build me a slide for the CEM covering XYZ topic and reference p. X-X from ABC and DEF precedent. This can and should take significant time to do correctly, then they will have to turn the workstream item multiple times to hone their skills (e.g. "I see several nits on this page, please go proof it again and find your mistakes before you give it back to me") - that's how they learn and get better

6) Staffing - interns my be assigned to one or two deals, or some may play the "rover" role across more deals. My intern is doing this now across 4-5 deals

7) Keyboard warriors / productive commentary - comments like "your friend is lying", "no way they work that many hours", etc. are actually false statements. It's more productive to utilize constructive comments and weigh in based on first hand or second hand information you know / feel to be accurate, than try and deconstruct someone else's perspective... especially when you have not lived this world. Not to say your perspective is wrong - it may be right for your or your friend's situation, but again... variation.

Not a straightforward answer, but I hope this color provides some context to set the stage for the variation in answers above.

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Aug 2, 2018

Solid points. Also, how lean your group is running before the interns arrive is also a factor.

Smaller groups are also harder hit when the 2nd years leave and it's just first years plus interns.

Can vouch for 10 AM policies on weekend arrival time at banks.

Aug 3, 2018

Yeah, 75/80 has been normal. Seen plenty working closer to 90/95 based on their speed with menial tasks. Maybe 5-10 hours a weekend.

Aug 3, 2018

This is disheartening,
**

Aug 3, 2018

I guess most people commenting 70/80+ hour weeks are from Corporate Finance type gigs. I'm a current summer intern at a BB in London within their Markets (Sales & Trading) internship and the hours are obviously very different.

Hours still vary. E.g. people on the FX floor such as Spot Sales/Trading do 7/7:30am - 5/5:30pm and so only 50hr weeks but people doing more structured stuff do up to 60hrs a week. While there are a select few interns in my division doing more than that, I think they're doing it for facetime or they're super inefficient.

Corporate finance people in my bank have it much worse. Leaving at midnight is normal and people have been leaving some days at times like 7/8am only to come back in a few hours.

Aug 3, 2018

Wait what. Know a couple guys in S&T in BB this summer in London. Some are doing ridiculously long hours too, like a sale who starts at 5.30 and leaves at 9pm. I feel like the pressure from M&A kinda drifts to the S&T who just end up doing lots of facing, and not really being that efficient.

Aug 4, 2018

About 80-85 on average in M&A Coverage at BB in London.

"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of its behind."

Aug 5, 2018

75-80 M&A at EB with good FT culture

Aug 5, 2018

75-80 M&A at EB with good FT culture

Aug 5, 2018

I work in M&A at a BB and I am easily doing 90-100 hours/week.

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Aug 5, 2018

How many hours on the weekend? Does most of the work happen Mon-Thurs? Just curious because BB's have been trying to reduce weekend work for summers

Aug 12, 2018

Weekends are usually ~12-7pm per day.

Aug 5, 2018
Aug 6, 2018
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Aug 12, 2018
Aug 15, 2018