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Comments (77)

Jul 19, 2018 - 9:16am

That's a GREAT question! From what I've heard, there is a lot of down time (while at the office) and then hyper focus on a task. Very non-productive. The IB world needs to get much better at using technology, work flow, etc. Face time requirements simply to show one's face is ridiculous after you've proven yourself to be responsible and competent. SO MUCH can be done with technology today. They could probably knock off 30 hours a week of BS and give you guys a much better life!

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Jul 30, 2018 - 2:17pm

Something about California state law has some firms (DB/CS/Houlihan/Citi/Others?) known for paying 1.5-2x for OT hours to LA/SF interns which is how they can hit those $40k+ figures out there. And I imagine lower tier banks ultimately pay their summers better than JP/GS/MS because they can't afford not to (e.g. I've heard of people at WF hitting good numbers too), i.e. they can't lean on prestige alone to keep top talent around...

Array
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Aug 5, 2018 - 3:51pm

It's that CA state law states that anything after 8 hours a day or the first 8 hours on the 7th consecutive workday must be paid 1.5x the hourly rate, and anything over 12 a day or starting on the 8th consecutive workday must be paid 2x the hourly rate. For this reason, firms that pay interns by the hour often limit intern hours in CA.

"There's nothing you can do if you're too scared to try." - Nickel Creek
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Jul 20, 2018 - 4:05pm

I do approx. 60-70 hours a week, mainly cuz at my BB, weekends for interns are protected and HR enforces it very strictly. I agree with others that there is a lot of downtime. I'd say work really picks up around 3-4pm.

Controversial
Jul 21, 2018 - 12:16pm

It's a crazy set up. If real work doesn't start to mid afternoon on most days, why not have the analysts come in at noon vs. 9am . I repeatedly hear that analysts try to appear to be busy in the morning. Whatever it is they are doing, they could be doing from home. Just to be available in case an Associate or MD needs them is ridiculous. There is this thing called the internet, the cloud, wifi, Dropbox, etc. Imagine the increased sleep and productivity gain without the exhaustion factor.

Yes I have a different perspective. I'm in the results business. Nothing else matters. Several yrs ago I changed my office from a traditional set up for myself and staff to an office without an office for me. I literally had no office. So, no place to hang out, waste time, BS, etc. I came in to meet with clients or meet with employees for specific things. No water cooler BS for me.

Got so much more done in far less time. Increased firm revenue (which increased employee bonuses) while increasing downtime, Also know for a fact staff enjoyed me not being around to mettle in their jobs. I may have texted them 10 times per 10 but it was task specific.

Aug 2, 2018 - 10:38am

I agree. Like some people have mentioned above, it's probably a, "this is the way things have always been done and these people need to be in the office" thing. At a minimum, possibly a rotating shift system makes sense so there are always some analysts in the office to handle whatever work might need to be done in the morning. Or, you know, take advantage of the internet like you said.

Just because people are in the office for endless hours and miserable doesn't mean they're accomplishing more. "Work expands to fill the time allotted."

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Jul 27, 2018 - 6:43pm

First post is bullshit. If he is in for 85 / 90 hours a week as an intern he is beyond unproductive / wasting time / just there for the sake of being there.

Most people work about 65 to 75 / week with relatively unproductive mornings and highly varying work at night (might sit around for a few hours in the evening until something urgent needs to be done).

Jul 27, 2018 - 7:58pm

I have ZERO idea how interns are claiming to work these many hours. I have 2 interns working for me now on 10-week stints. The first week was corp training, it took them another 2 weeks to figure out which way was up, the last week is for wrap-up. So that means I only really get them for 6 weeks and I couldn't possibly imagine giving them something for 6 weeks that requires all this overtime you all are claiming.

Jul 30, 2018 - 7:59pm

One friend last summer at a BB did about 75 a week, strict enforce on no weekends. Few other friends at a different BB group did 60-70 a week, also no weekends really.

Also did have a friend at a top BB that worked around 80, so it varies for sure, and doesn't necessarily correlate with how good a group is. All 3 aforementioned BB groups are one of the better groups at each respective bank. Just really depends on the mercy of the staffer and that bank's policy for SAs.

Jul 30, 2018 - 9:56pm

im at an average middle market and im 80 + a week...no im not exaggerating, and no im not pretending to be slammed with work every hour of the day. It just so happens that the bulk of my work load gets dropped on me way later in the day.

around 4 it picks up significantly. the problem for me is im working under the analyst who is known for getting the biggest workload, and anything and everything that could possibly be delegated to an intern does. Some of the work absolutely sucks - ive done some seriously mind numbing administrative work because we lack the resources to outsource it.

the hours dont bother me because I actually like being able to help where I can. what bothers me is that none of the associates have any idea that Im working as much as I am because the analyst secretly delegates work to me that the associates assume he is doing. I dont know if anyone else has been in this situation before but im pretty frustrated about it. hes a genuinely nice guy too, just feel like every once and a while it would be good to get some recognition beyond "appreciate your help buddy" from said analyst.

Jul 31, 2018 - 12:07am

When I interned, i had 2 weeks of 105 hours and one week of 110. Typically 80-90 hours depending on if we had social events.

As an analyst, I still work around the clock but I'm able to do it from home a lot more which is nice.

Aug 2, 2018 - 10:51am

Seriously? whats your source?

If this is true it's absolutely heinous...

Most Helpful
Aug 1, 2018 - 10:47pm

A few things:

1) Variation of activity / live deals across and within - There is significant variation across banks, within groups in banks and even within subgroups / deal teams - so it's hard to say what is "typical"

2) Weekend policies - Different banks have different policies for protected weekends - some have it the whole weekend, some of just Saturdays and some have no weekend rules

3) Variation of group / deal team structure - depending on the structure within a group and the group's size, you can have a constant workstream of longer burn projects (CEM, pitchbook, forecast model, MP, etc.) that provide an immense amount of work to pick from, especially if you have multiple deals and teams are staffed lean. Variation in structure can lead deal team members to play multiple roles, especially during times of immense activity

4) Productivity ("the bottleneck") - from my experience, it's rarely the case that an MD is a hold up. However, my group structure is atypical (i.e. aforementioned variation) in so that mid and junior level deal team members have significant rope to run with for key marketing documents and workstreams (we are a niche group and have developed trust / rapport over years)

5) Productivity ("the learning curve") - SAs have not built efficiencies in tasks or work flows, because they have never done them. For our interns (including the one we currently have), we typically like to challenge them - "go build me a slide for the CEM covering XYZ topic and reference p. X-X from ABC and DEF precedent. This can and should take significant time to do correctly, then they will have to turn the workstream item multiple times to hone their skills (e.g. "I see several nits on this page, please go proof it again and find your mistakes before you give it back to me") - that's how they learn and get better

6) Staffing - interns my be assigned to one or two deals, or some may play the "rover" role across more deals. My intern is doing this now across 4-5 deals

7) Keyboard warriors / productive commentary - comments like "your friend is lying", "no way they work that many hours", etc. are actually false statements. It's more productive to utilize constructive comments and weigh in based on first hand or second hand information you know / feel to be accurate, than try and deconstruct someone else's perspective... especially when you have not lived this world. Not to say your perspective is wrong - it may be right for your or your friend's situation, but again... variation.

Not a straightforward answer, but I hope this color provides some context to set the stage for the variation in answers above.

Aug 2, 2018 - 5:19am

Solid points. Also, how lean your group is running before the interns arrive is also a factor.

Smaller groups are also harder hit when the 2nd years leave and it's just first years plus interns.

Can vouch for 10 AM policies on weekend arrival time at banks.

Aug 3, 2018 - 5:01pm

Wait what. Know a couple guys in S&T in BB this summer in London. Some are doing ridiculously long hours too, like a sale who starts at 5.30 and leaves at 9pm. I feel like the pressure from M&A kinda drifts to the S&T who just end up doing lots of facing, and not really being that efficient.

Aug 6, 2018 - 5:37pm

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Aug 12, 2018 - 1:52pm

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