The Economist 2012 Rankings

Boothorbust's picture
Boothorbust - Certified Professional
Rank: King Kong | banana points 1,171

The Economist 2012 rankings are out
http://www.economist.com/whichmba/full-time-mba-ra...
Love that Booth is on top, but anyone who puts Darden above HBS and Stanford at 8 needs to be looked at with a bit of a crooked eye.

The Economist weighs student surveys very heavily in their rankings, so obviously take with a grain (or a shaker) of salt - as with all rankings.

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Comments (31)

Oct 4, 2012

HSW at 4 / 8 / 13?

This ranking looks legit.

Oct 4, 2012

I LOVE the economist; it's essential reading. But this ranking is a total joke. And I love booth as well, but come on.

Oct 4, 2012

That's why I love rankings! Everybody wins!

Betsy Massar
Come see me at my Q&A thread
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-... Ask away!

Oct 4, 2012

UVA #2? Barf.

We need Brady to talk some sense into these clowns.

Oct 6, 2012
BTbanker:

UVA #2? Barf.

We need Brady to talk some sense into these clowns.

He's here - switched his name to TheLastCall

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Oct 5, 2012

I have to show my Booth pride...but come on, Kellogg at #20. What a joke!

Oct 5, 2012

This ranking system gets more and more laughable as the years go by. The system unfairly rewards a system just because it is attracting less "elite" students with much lower pre-MBA salaries. So a Harvard might bring a jump from a 7 to a 9.5 in terms of salary since most HBS accepts have pretty great pre-MBA salaries to start with and they are probably looking at the quality of work rather than just a pure increase in salary while picking their post-MBA job. A Darden on the other hand might have a 4 to 7.5 jump for its grads and the system rewards that more. That is fair enough to judge the bang for the buck but IMO should be weighted appropriately and not become along with student given ratings, the primary source of ranking. The proof is in the pudding - do a quick survey on people who would leave a Tuck for an INSEAD, or a Darden for Stanford, etc. I'm sure it would be close to a 100% rate. HBS/Stanford are still unquestionably the top 2 overall, INSEAD/Kellogg tops for Consulting, Wharton/LBS/Chicago for Finance. Dont fall for the rankings rollercoaster...pick a college with a brand and legacy that will last you a lifetime.

Oct 4, 2012
Jamie Templeton:

This ranking system gets more and more laughable as the years go by. The system unfairly rewards a system just because it is attracting less "elite" students with much lower pre-MBA salaries. So a Harvard might bring a jump from a 7 to a 9.5 in terms of salary since most HBS accepts have pretty great pre-MBA salaries to start with and they are probably looking at the quality of work rather than just a pure increase in salary while picking their post-MBA job. A Darden on the other hand might have a 4 to 7.5 jump for its grads and the system rewards that more. That is fair enough to judge the bang for the buck but IMO should be weighted appropriately and not become along with student given ratings, the primary source of ranking. The proof is in the pudding - do a quick survey on people who would leave a Tuck for an INSEAD, or a Darden for Stanford, etc. I'm sure it would be close to a 100% rate. HBS/Stanford are still unquestionably the top 2 overall, INSEAD/Kellogg tops for Consulting, Wharton/LBS/Chicago for Finance. Dont fall for the rankings rollercoaster...pick a college with a brand and legacy that will last you a lifetime.

I agree with your general thesis, and i hate to be nitpicky here, but i don't think INSEAD and LBS belong in the same category as kellogg/booth/columbia/wharton. First, INSEAD is a one-year program; thus, most of its students are being sponsored by their employers. It places well in the european offices of major consulting firms and some PE, but given that it's a one-year program, it's not at all clear what proportion of its students are simply returning to their previous firms as opposed to getting those jobs through recruiting. Second, LBS is very overrated, sort of the "Stern of London." Its primary selling point is its location, strength in london finance recruiting, and an international student body. However, even for london jobs, LBS pales in comparison to wharton/booth/columbia. Almost any major bank or hedge fund in europe will have more M7 grads in their ranks than LBS. Finally, the caliber of the student body at LBS is quite unimpressive, both academically and in terms of pre-mba experience.

Oct 7, 2012
TheLastCall:
Jamie Templeton:

This ranking system gets more and more laughable as the years go by. The system unfairly rewards a system just because it is attracting less "elite" students with much lower pre-MBA salaries. So a Harvard might bring a jump from a 7 to a 9.5 in terms of salary since most HBS accepts have pretty great pre-MBA salaries to start with and they are probably looking at the quality of work rather than just a pure increase in salary while picking their post-MBA job. A Darden on the other hand might have a 4 to 7.5 jump for its grads and the system rewards that more. That is fair enough to judge the bang for the buck but IMO should be weighted appropriately and not become along with student given ratings, the primary source of ranking. The proof is in the pudding - do a quick survey on people who would leave a Tuck for an INSEAD, or a Darden for Stanford, etc. I'm sure it would be close to a 100% rate. HBS/Stanford are still unquestionably the top 2 overall, INSEAD/Kellogg tops for Consulting, Wharton/LBS/Chicago for Finance. Dont fall for the rankings rollercoaster...pick a college with a brand and legacy that will last you a lifetime.

I agree with your general thesis, and i hate to be nitpicky here, but i don't think INSEAD and LBS belong in the same category as kellogg/booth/columbia/wharton. First, INSEAD is a one-year program; thus, most of its students are being sponsored by their employers. It places well in the european offices of major consulting firms and some PE, but given that it's a one-year program, it's not at all clear what proportion of its students are simply returning to their previous firms as opposed to getting those jobs through recruiting. Second, LBS is very overrated, sort of the "Stern of London." Its primary selling point is its location, strength in london finance recruiting, and an international student body. However, even for london jobs, LBS pales in comparison to wharton/booth/columbia. Almost any major bank or hedge fund in europe will have more M7 grads in their ranks than LBS. Finally, the caliber of the student body at LBS is quite unimpressive, both academically and in terms of pre-mba experience.

yeah LBS is pretty much a complete joke, id rather hire an lse undergrad than a lbs mba.

Oct 4, 2012
Jamie Templeton:

This ranking system gets more and more laughable as the years go by. The system unfairly rewards a system just because it is attracting less "elite" students with much lower pre-MBA salaries. So a Harvard might bring a jump from a 7 to a 9.5 in terms of salary since most HBS accepts have pretty great pre-MBA salaries to start with and they are probably looking at the quality of work rather than just a pure increase in salary while picking their post-MBA job. A Darden on the other hand might have a 4 to 7.5 jump for its grads and the system rewards that more. That is fair enough to judge the bang for the buck but IMO should be weighted appropriately and not become along with student given ratings, the primary source of ranking. The proof is in the pudding - do a quick survey on people who would leave a Tuck for an INSEAD, or a Darden for Stanford, etc. I'm sure it would be close to a 100% rate. HBS/Stanford are still unquestionably the top 2 overall, INSEAD/Kellogg tops for Consulting, Wharton/LBS/Chicago for Finance. Dont fall for the rankings rollercoaster...pick a college with a brand and legacy that will last you a lifetime.

Way to sneak in there, INSEAD guy.

Comparing INSEAD to Stanford is completely ridiculous. Also, few would leave a school like Tuck (or even Top 15 Darden) for a waste-of-time European MBA.

Oct 4, 2012
holla_back:
Jamie Templeton:

This ranking system gets more and more laughable as the years go by. The system unfairly rewards a system just because it is attracting less "elite" students with much lower pre-MBA salaries. So a Harvard might bring a jump from a 7 to a 9.5 in terms of salary since most HBS accepts have pretty great pre-MBA salaries to start with and they are probably looking at the quality of work rather than just a pure increase in salary while picking their post-MBA job. A Darden on the other hand might have a 4 to 7.5 jump for its grads and the system rewards that more. That is fair enough to judge the bang for the buck but IMO should be weighted appropriately and not become along with student given ratings, the primary source of ranking. The proof is in the pudding - do a quick survey on people who would leave a Tuck for an INSEAD, or a Darden for Stanford, etc. I'm sure it would be close to a 100% rate. HBS/Stanford are still unquestionably the top 2 overall, INSEAD/Kellogg tops for Consulting, Wharton/LBS/Chicago for Finance. Dont fall for the rankings rollercoaster...pick a college with a brand and legacy that will last you a lifetime.

Way to sneak in there, INSEAD guy.

Comparing INSEAD to Stanford is completely ridiculous. Also, few would leave a school like Tuck (or even Top 15 Darden) for a waste-of-time European MBA.

Haha. Yeah it's pretty obvious that this guy is either a LBS or INSEAD student who just created a wso account to troll for his school. Very few Americans would turn down a M7 or even tuck/haas for LBS/INSEAD while virtually every lbs/insead student would kill to attend a M7.

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Oct 5, 2012

This is an awful list.

Here to learn and hopefully pass on some knowledge as well. SB if I helped.

Oct 6, 2012

It's based on "student satisfaction" - whatever that means. I could believe a story you told me that students at Darden enjoy their experience more than students at Columbia. That doesn't it mean its better. Like anything else, you have to look at the methodology. This list isn't any more "right" than any other - they just measure different things. If you are interested in other criteria, you should look to other lists.

Oct 31, 2012
Boothorbust:

It's based on "student satisfaction" - whatever that means. I could believe a story you told me that students at Darden enjoy their experience more than students at Columbia. That doesn't it mean its better. Like anything else, you have to look at the methodology. This list isn't any more "right" than any other - they just measure different things. If you are interested in other criteria, you should look to other lists.

^^Spot on.

Regards

Oct 4, 2012

Since we're on the topic of Darden, does anyone here have any anecdotal evidence to share about the actual schoolwork that they do there? What's the workload like? I always hear about how academically challenging it is when compared to the other Top 15 schools, but it's really difficult to tell how much of it is actually true and how much is just bombast.

Oct 6, 2012
holla_back:

Since we're on the topic of Darden, does anyone here have any anecdotal evidence to share about the actual schoolwork that they do there? What's the workload like? I always hear about how academically challenging it is when compared to the other Top 15 schools, but it's really difficult to tell how much of it is actually true and how much is just bombast.

I have a friend there now who confirms it's pretty taxing. It's a new case every class, and you are in case groups for each class that meet daily for several hours at a time outside of class. Plus all the reading and any individual work. She's enjoying it though. I get the sense that it's not the difficulty, but the amount of work.

Also consider that Darden attracts less former finance people than Booth, Columbia, etc - so you don't have people used to working 90 hour weeks.

Oct 31, 2012
Boothorbust:
holla_back:

Since we're on the topic of Darden, does anyone here have any anecdotal evidence to share about the actual schoolwork that they do there? What's the workload like? I always hear about how academically challenging it is when compared to the other Top 15 schools, but it's really difficult to tell how much of it is actually true and how much is just bombast.

I have a friend there now who confirms it's pretty taxing. It's a new case every class, and you are in case groups for each class that meet daily for several hours at a time outside of class. Plus all the reading and any individual work. She's enjoying it though. I get the sense that it's not the difficulty, but the amount of work.

Also consider that Darden attracts less former finance people than Booth, Columbia, etc - so you don't have people used to working 90 hour weeks.

I've talked to several alums recently and a few current Darden students and they all support the consensus that the workload is pretty demanding. As Boothorbust stated, there is basically a new case for every class, nearly everyday, so you are talking about 3 cases a night, with the 'learning team' meeting for several hours Sunday through Wednesday (I believe 7pm-10pm) to discuss the cases. Then, of course, you have class most of the day to discuss those cases and then networking and recruiting events, events for the Darden Cup and then meeting for social clubs and extracurricular activities.

Of course, most schools are demanding on your time, but from what I've gathered in my bschool due diligence process, Darden is commonly seen as having one of the toughest, if not the toughest workload in the first year. All told, you will do about 600 cases over the course of your two years at Darden.

Regards

Oct 5, 2012

I don't trust the stats I want to see what the real recruitment numbers are in Europe, I think these schools are manipulating the data.

Oct 6, 2012

this list doesn't really look that great to me
even though i feel like they're trying to be somewhat egalitarian, i feel like a school like hbs or cbs receives way more in alumni donation than virginia

Oct 6, 2012

Lol @ Ross and Darden students being weak. Darden kids would wipe the floor with you, Brady. Socially and managerially.

Oct 7, 2012

Jsut out of curiosity, why are people at LBS considered so weak? Do they have tiny dicks or small tits?

Oct 7, 2012

Brady, how'd you like the match-up against Peyton Manning today?

Oct 26, 2012

The Darden workload is huge. I'm a current student so take it from me. There is too much work. The volumes and not the difficulty makes the difference. Try understanding 3 20 page cases each day and reading tons of chapters in a textbook, technical notes, individual quizzes and assignments, and building all sorts of models between 1:30pm and 7:00pm each day before your learning team. Try going through that material in 2 hours with a learning team of different people from different backgrounds with different views. Oh and toss in club activities and recuriting in the mix on a daily basis. And be prepared to make your class contribution, jostling to be heard in a class of 65 for your class participation grade. There are investment bankers who break under the load. Try getting hung up on a minor detail with 2 ego centric classmates who think they are smarter than everyone and waste the class time arguing over their point. Try watching the professor stand back and watch, claiming that this is the case method and they are only a facilitator and don't need to teach. At Darden, you teach yourself, or get someone else who has had a job in whatever field to teach you. I wonder why we have professors anyway. Such a waste of money. I am only here to get a diploma that says MBA. That's what your money get's you at Darden. And a tip for international students, people here are generally xenophobic, if you want a truly international experience, Darden is not the place for you. If people would tell the truth, student satisfaction is not so high. Make sure you visit the campus and watch everything carefully, reading between the lines before you make your decision. Ask lot's of questions on how the collaborative nature of the program fits with the need to gain class participation points by air hogging. Ask questions on how much preparation students spend on cases. Ask questions on how the faculty assign their class participation points exactly (20%-50% or your grades will depend on this) and what informs their decision. Is there quality control on how professors measure participation? Should all courses be taught using the case method? There are so many questions to ask to make sure that this school is a fit for you before taking a step. You want to get into a school, but make sure that it is the right school.

    • 1
Oct 26, 2012
sweetlily:

The Darden workload is huge. I'm a current student so take it from me. There is too much work. The volumes and not the difficulty makes the difference. Try understanding 3 20 page cases each day and reading tons of chapters in a textbook, technical notes, individual quizzes and assignments, and building all sorts of models between 1:30pm and 7:00pm each day before your learning team. Try going through that material in 2 hours with a learning team of different people from different backgrounds with different views. Oh and toss in club activities and recuriting in the mix on a daily basis. And be prepared to make your class contribution, jostling to be heard in a class of 65 for your class participation grade. There are investment bankers who break under the load. Try getting hung up on a minor detail with 2 ego centric classmates who think they are smarter than everyone and waste the class time arguing over their point. Try watching the professor stand back and watch, claiming that this is the case method and they are only a facilitator and don't need to teach. At Darden, you teach yourself, or get someone else who has had a job in whatever field to teach you. I wonder why we have professors anyway. Such a waste of money. I am only here to get a diploma that says MBA. That's what your money get's you at Darden. And a tip for international students, people here are generally xenophobic, if you want a truly international experience, Darden is not the place for you. If people would tell the truth, student satisfaction is not so high. Make sure you visit the campus and watch everything carefully, reading between the lines before you make your decision. Ask lot's of questions on how the collaborative nature of the program fits with the need to gain class participation points by air hogging. Ask questions on how much preparation students spend on cases. Ask questions on how the faculty assign their class participation points exactly (20%-50% or your grades will depend on this) and what informs their decision. Is there quality control on how professors measure participation? Should all courses be taught using the case method? There are so many questions to ask to make sure that this school is a fit for you before taking a step. You want to get into a school, but make sure that it is the right school.

I'm very surprised that you are not enjoying your darden experience. My friends there do complain about the insane amount of work and are not too happy about the case method, but they seem to enjoy the experience overall. I also think an exclusively case oriented approach to an MBA education is deeply flawed.

Aside from the classes, what are your impressions of darden overall? Is recruiting strong there this year? Also, what makes you say that it's "xenophobic?" I know it's mostly a southern white school, but it's not like darden is filled with racist rednecks.

Oct 31, 2012
sweetlily:

And a tip for international students, people here are generally xenophobic, if you want a truly international experience, Darden is not the place for you.

"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and all the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called 'patriotism'."

Regards

    • 1
Oct 30, 2012

How do the Asia MBA's get though of in the US.