Too Early to Jump Ship?

saw23's picture
Rank: Gorilla | 631

Monkeys,

My buddy just broke into the IB industry and has only been with his new firm for a few months now. A friend from another firm presented him an opportunity to interview for a position.

The new role would pay roughly 33% more, with the current firm likely not being able to match if he tried to renegotiate. Is this too early to leave a firm even if the opportunity is much better?

What would guys do?

Thanks in advance!

Comments (50)

Mar 7, 2016

How is "your buddy's" comp going up 33%? I'm assuming he is at some small boutique that pays below market. I say interview and get the offer if they will train you.

That said, not only will your current boutique not match the offer, you better be discrete about interviewing 2 months into the job because you might get shit canned if they find out. Also, renegotiating is probably the worst possible thing you could do. Why would you do that? They will just match the offer and fire you when they find your replacement.

Mar 7, 2016

Yes, it is a small boutique currently. Not sure why I even mentioned renegotiating. Thanks for the input

Mar 9, 2016

Just curious about a few things: How does he know if it's much better at the new place? And also, if he's only 3 months in how does he know his current situation won't improve? Money aside, because it'll come eventually, I'm not sure I would go for it. It depends on his work history and long term goals. If he's moved 3 times before now, he needs to stay. (Especially if he wants to get into an MBA program) Although, I would say being at a job for only 3 months looks very bad. Tell him to be ready to spin that "this is why I'm leaving after 3 months story". However, if he's going to a 2 man shop in a guys basement to Goldman it would be worth it. if he decides to interview, make sure his firm doesn't find out - it's a small world. Although, the interview can end in a ding (because of leaving so soon which case he won't have a decision to make.

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers

Mar 9, 2016

You owe exactly nothing to your current bank. Feel free to apply to the job. You have a perfectly good reason for doing so - wanting to move closer to home.

Mar 9, 2016

as long as you're not breaching any contract and you give fair warning, you should be ok i guess.

"... then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."

Mar 9, 2016

If you really want motivation to quit, read the Black Swan so you can understand just how worthless your job really is... (same goes for most of you reading this)

    • 1
Mar 9, 2016
alexpasch:

If you really want motivation to quit, read the Black Swan so you can understand just how worthless your job really is... (same goes for most of you reading this)

In the same boat as OP. I read Black Swan before I entered the workforce and held the same opinion as you. While I still agree with most of Taleb's arguments, I can now understand the risk management function in corporate banking is more than just mitigating loss whether it's predictable or not. A large part of it is actually quantifying and pricing risks relatively speaking so that resources are allocated toward the investments with lowest risk / highest reward. No one is going to predict the next GFC or 9/11 or what have you, but if your book is set up so that you can absorb long tail events you will survive them.

Mar 9, 2016

actually planning on starting it in the next week or so (after i wrap up street freak) but just was wondering whats your take on talebs black swan theory and my dilemma or every other person on WSO contemplating a jump in jobs?

Mar 9, 2016

Staying at a job less than a year will stand out on your resume for a while. Try to stick it out for at least a year.

    • 1
Mar 9, 2016

Same position, except I'm in corporate banking. I'm trying to move internally, and find it is much easier to get my resume looked at by going through other analysts.

This really helps if you arent in a regional office, so you can just take the elevator and have a quick chat with some of the IBD guys.

Mar 9, 2016

yeah people will ask questions about why you bailed so quickly, but if you don't like it bail to something you'd enjoy and would keep you in a job for an extended period of time. i could care less if you stuck around and spent a year in a job if it just ended with you wanted to switch fields to something you found more interesting. then again, if this is your 4th job in 2 years, give it a chance before your go for five.

Mar 9, 2016

wallstreetballa (oh the irony), it is a bit early to start the job search, however, you need to take into consideration the general analyst hiring timeline. In the fall, most of the hires are students looking to start the next summer. In between when they accept and when they start is when you're most likely to have job openings due to defections. As a result, I would estimate that the next six months are going to have the most potential job openings for you to snag. If you miss this window, you'll likely need to wait around for another year, which is obviously not something you want to do. You can also always attempt to find a bank that has an immediate need for another analyst, but restricting yourself to these opportunities may make things more difficult for you. In the end, there is no "right" answer for when you should start looking, but you should definitely start networking sooner rather than later.

Mar 9, 2016

Just as a note I recently got turned down for my ideal job for trying to leaving my current firm too soon (final 3 candidates).

But (and as I often tell recruiters who tell me stick with my current gig) there's no reason not to try, just make sure it doesn't affect your current job.

Mar 9, 2016

Totally disagree w people telling you "not to leave for a year." thats bull. i left my lower MM IBD gig for a BB/elite boutique gig six months into the job and nobody has asked any questions. it's pretty obvious that you (would) be leaving for a better opportunity so in my experience nobody thinks twice that you should have "stuck it out"

Mar 9, 2016

Compbanker's advice is very good. I agree, pay attention to hiring timelines, read, do your research, make connections, and network, network, network. You need to stay at least a year

Mar 9, 2016

Have heard of it, and it happens but I don't think it's too common. Toughness of switch depends on what/where you're going from and what you want to go to/where you want to go. Some more info about that would help me/others answer more confidently.

Mar 9, 2016

It's ok if you stay at BB for a couple of years

Mar 9, 2016

"It has come to my attention that I would rather do banking"? I really think you meant to say I have come to the decision that I would rather do banking, unless you didn't know you'd rather do banking before and someone just pointed it out to you...

Mar 9, 2016

I really should have said that I have come to the decision that I'd rather do banking. Spending time with people I know at work, the fact that they work towards deadlines and goals really appeals to me. In trading, it feels like it's more or less maintaining existing the accounts of clients managing their portfolios or executing transactions, it just doesn't feel rewarding.

That being said, would it even be possible (or wise) to make that switch a few months in?

Mar 9, 2016

I really should have said that I have come to the decision that I'd rather do banking. Spending time with people I know at work, the fact that they work towards deadlines and goals really appeals to me. In trading, it feels like it's more or less maintaining existing the accounts of clients managing their portfolios or executing transactions, it just doesn't feel rewarding.

That being said, would it even be possible (or wise) to make that switch a few months in?

Mar 9, 2016

be happy you have a job right now...

...don't rattle the cage

Mar 9, 2016

Now is not the time to switch, wait at least a year.

Mar 9, 2016

if you do switch, can I have your current job?

Mar 9, 2016

is deferring admission by a year be an option? if you think this is a good career opportunity that lines up well with what you want to do, then I say go for it.

Mar 9, 2016

If you get this and it's a FO role, pays well and is at a decent firm why would you go get an MSF, either stay, lateral to a better AM/ER position or jump to a HF. There is no need for an MSF if you get it.

Mar 9, 2016
futurectdoc:

If you get this and it's a FO role, pays well and is at a decent firm why would you go get an MSF, either stay, lateral to a better AM/ER position or jump to a HF. There is no need for an MSF if you get it.

Exactly what I was thinking...

Mar 9, 2016

Unfortunately its known for low balling on comp think 30-40k and is in a less than desirable location. Additionally, ER isn't something I'm terribly interested in; rather I just thought I could get closer to an IB skillset through the position. Just want to maximize my 'recruitability' that is all.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Mar 9, 2016
BepBep12:

Unfortunately its known for low balling on comp think 30-40k and is in a less than desirable location. Additionally, ER isn't something I'm terribly interested in; rather I just thought I could get closer to an IB skillset through the position. Just want to maximize my 'recruitability' that is all.

Exiting to another firm or to a hedge fund isn't an appealing option? You have no idea if you'll do better in recruitment and you may not get IB from an MSF.

Mar 9, 2016

Def. don't switch jobs if you plan on starting school in 2013

Mar 9, 2016

Thanks for the input guys I had a chance to talk this through w/ a mentor and now this question seems stupid, sorry for wasting your time!

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Mar 9, 2016

Just out of curiosity are you taking the job?

Mar 9, 2016
futurectdoc:

Just out of curiosity are you taking the job?

Never had the offer... was just playing a pointless game of "what if"

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Mar 9, 2016

For me, telling them depends if the people working at each of the firms would ever interact and tell them that you left abruptly to work at their firm and in that case you should disclose if brought up during the interview.

If you have just started the job there is not much to talk about the new company anyways during the interview so you could just omit it from your story since it's not a big part of your background yet and they wouldn't be good references if you just started anyways for the background check.

You do have to consider any consequences of leaving the company you are with just after starting and have to be sure the new company is where you'll want to be for the next while since that will burn any bridges you have with the old company and depending on the size it could affect your reputation as well.

Are the companies/roles significantly different that it wouldn't make you look indecisive if you say the old company isn't right for you?

Mar 9, 2016

How long were you at the old job ?

Couldn't you have just resigned and continued interviewing ?

You're the guy who was targetting all those HFs right ?

Mar 9, 2016

What types of jobs are these? I-Banking jobs? (I assume because of "Associate.")

You're in a pretty tough spot. I hope you weren't interviewing for any position that you wouldn't be happy at (otherwise why go through the process at all). With that in mind, I wouldn't suggest leaving your current job anytime soon, especially because you left your first one pre-maturely (I'd imagine it was early, otherwise it shouldn't have upset the Associate).

If you really can't stand it, keep looking. However, the more you change jobs, the more it will affect you in the short term. 5 years down the line it won't matter, as long as you maintain steady employment once you get where you want to be.

Mar 9, 2016

basically, i was at my old job for a year; started recruiting, but my assoc's found out, and the group is one that retains analysts for 3+ years (as many banks in general do now). i just started a new job a few weeks ago, and it was basically cause i was kind of forced into it, cause at the time it was the only offer i had. but i hadn't even gotten into the full swing of interviewing yet. that's basically the deal; thanks for all the help compbanker and seanc; any other thoughts?

Mar 9, 2016

Realistically speaking, why would a BB hire you over a summer analyst or a lateral from another BB? Even if your work experience is impressive, seems like it is still at an infancy stage. I would focus on this job rather than trying to network at this point. That being said, anything is possible as long as you already have a strong connection, but to go through the whole networking grind again, I don't think it's worth it.

Mar 9, 2016

I think a year is about the minimum amount of time. It wasn't till I was a little over a year out that I started getting interviews that were considered experienced hires. Of course you see some analysts jump to PE or something similar before a year, but that is the exception, not the rule. Before a year a lot of firms will consider you still "entry level" and look at your for those types of jobs.

Mar 9, 2016
Comment
Mar 9, 2016