Top BB in HK or Bottom-tier BB in NY

What are people's general thoughts on this? If your eventual goal is to work in Asia (HK/Singapore), should you go with HK or NY for your analyst stint? But I have also heard the caliber of the work and the people in US is much higher. Would working in US first be more beneficial? Any insight is appreciated.

 

When would you want to move to APAC if you were to start in NY. During IB? Within PE/other buyside? Maybe after an MBA? The sooner you will want to go to APAC the more beneficial the NY thing would be, otherwise you will just destroy a lot of opportunities for yourself.

At the same time, given that you want to be in APAC long-term, I think it might be more useful to get as much geographical expertise and local network as possible. Therefore, I would lean towards the HK offer. Final caveat to that would maybe be which exact BB you got. I feel that there is a common understanding that GS/MS/JPM are top and BAR/DB/UBS are bottom. However, that is not really as true in Asia where for instance CS and UBS are (very) strong and JPM might actually be worse (at least for CS).

  • HK: MS -> take it over all else

  • HK: GS -> take it over everything that isn't CS

  • HK: JPM -> take it over DB and Barclays, but not above CS and make UBS dependent on cultural fit/group

 

I mean BAR and CS are very similar but I would argue that outside of PUI, CS is a more "reputable" bank

 

What would you say are the strengths of the top firms that you listed above? Will be joining CS this summer, and was considering trying to recruit FT to GS/MS but not sure how feasible that is. I've also heard sweatshop hours for MS HK IBD.

 

In Asia all BBs are sweatshops, for summer most interns averaged 3am on weekdays and were back on both Saturday and Sunday

 

Nobody considers Barclays to be "bottom". At the undergrad level, most of my peers chose it over CS.

 

this is not accurate or outdated at least. UBS used to be the top, but it has been struggling severely over the past few years and do not seem to have the momentum to compete against U.S. banks going forward. CS is only good due to its relationship with Ali and its TMT, but other than that it's just so so. Exit is pretty much the same among the first 5 banks, but you rarely see CS or UBS guys exit to top PE/growth (Warbug, KKR, BX, Hillhouse, etc). MS is good because it is MS and does a lot of deals. GS is more selective on clients and does less deals. While JPM is not as dominant as it is in the U.S., it has no issue competing for the highest quality deals (lead Budweiser this year) and does less equity/bond and more M&A/sponsor (Carlyle/McDonald, EY China). JP's presence will only get bigger given it now has controlling company. BAML is also catching up pretty fast. Th best talents still flow according to our conventional perceptions on rankings. I don't think you will find anyone who is willing to take UBS/CS over GS/JP in HK.

 

Have heard a lot about HK BBs doing much less M&A and more equity/bond issuance deals than NY BBs. To what extent is this true and why is this the case?

 

Would agree with what is already said above. NYC IB experience can be good but having connection/network in Asia is more important especially at VP level and above. Also, I wouldn't generalize the caliber of an entire region against another. Sure, you'll get more exposures in the US as a junior but I've seen smart/high caliber people from both regions.

 
Most Helpful

I cannot comment on banking specifically or on junior positions so OP, please take this with a grain of salt.

The quality of training, people, deals etc in NYC across pretty much any vertical is better. It's the major leagues and you can probably find your way to Asia (especially if you are Asian) either through your bank or with a fund or something later on. You'll have built networks in NYC, have it on the resume and be a known commodity. The money, the power (and therefore the most senior people and qualified folks) sit in NYC (or in London in some cases). Is JPM doing a multi-billion dollar deal to some company in China and needs sign-off from the very top? Guess what, that conference call will probably be to fit NYC time because that's where the big cheeses sit.

HK/Asia in general is much more relationship based and transactionally more simple. So much of business in Asia is who you know, where you went to school (locally) etc. The quality of training/people can be abysmal. That said lower taxes, probably more interesting personal life (not discounting the long hours), travel etc. The issue is after a few years you are probably known as "An Asia Person" which makes it much much harder to pivot out. You can always get an MBA or something, but even with that your resume will read "Asia" and that's how you may be pegged. You have been warned...

Take it from earthwalker7 and me, since we are both older than most on this board and have spent most or all of our careers in Asia and have seen a lot. I can personally attest that coming back to the US is super hard on a number of levels.

Unless you want to be in Asia for life and are connected/have affinity for it etc.

I hope that this is helpful.

Good Luck

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
 

Thank you so much. This is insanely helpful. Since you mentioned that you spent most/all of your careers in Asia, I wonder if you are Asian or an expat working in Asia. As an asian myself, I found it difficult assimilate to the dominant white culture in the US and furthermore, my family are all in Asia and I want to be with them for as much time as possible. Another concern I have is the recent protest in HK and I am afraid there will be less opportunities in the future. At the end of the day, I do realize it is hard getting a job no matter where it is. I am just lost where my focus should be.

 

I'm Asian American and speak 2 Asian languages, though neither at the native level. I most certainly do not come from a well connected family or anything like that. So I'm not sure if I'm an expat (most of my friends are), but I'm certainly not local.

The other thing is that many in Asia at the very senior levels are old hands who got in early (if foreign) or transplants from NYC/London (as a pit stop to moving up in the management chain), locals (who got in early after working in NYC/London), or local well connected people (ie born to the right family). As the markets get more and more local, the old hand expats will become fewer and fewer as they retire and the other three will be what's left. Unless one is lucky, one will probably have to be well connected to truly and sustainably do well in Asia at higher levels if in finance.

The "white culture" that dominates in the US is not so much different from whatever homogeneous culture dominates in whatever Asian country, with the exception that there are minorities who have made it to the top of banks and run significant HFs etc in the US/UK, which is much more rarely the case in Asia. Seriously, Asia and Asians in general (across the continent) are obsessed with race/skin color/caste etc and after growing up in the west or spending a lot of time in the west, it strikes me as juvenile and annoying (and I'm being nice).

It all depends on what it important to you. If it's family first, then the answer will be pretty easy. Frankly, if HK loses jobs, then they will go to SG or be spread to regional offices unless you see more job losses in the industry (which has been happening since 2008). The issue is, those who service CN/TW clients or even Korean ones don't want to pay those taxes (or frankly deal with life in Mainland China), so one is probably safe enough there. The issue is life in China is hard, the soft and hard infra isn't there, taxes are higher, stuff is censored, the rule of law (business and personal) is unevenly enforced (at best) which makes lots of businesses and people not want to live there full time. And that is not a dig at China specifically, but a comment on it being a developing country.

Hope this helps

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
 

Spent most of my life in HK growing up and going to school with those who were "born in the right family" and expats. I've had friends get into BB IBD with almost zero knowledge and interest in finance but ended up there simply because their families were well connected.

Much like you mentioned, it truly amazes me how people are obsessed race/skin color is even though I've spent so much time in HK. In my experience, Asian Americans that don't speak the language well can find themselves in difficult positions. Because of their skin color, people expect them to speak the language whereas a non-Asian can get away with not speaking the language even if the two both come from similar backgrounds (raised in the west etc). Expats, particularly white people, are still considered superior to pretty much everyone else. But with that said, having work experience in NY and moving to HK could potentially put you in that pool of people as HK still highly values overseas experience. It's sometimes even put on job descriptions, no joke.

 

My career path has been anything but straight forward (I'll have to do an AMA one day). I literally stumbled into something in Asia when I was studying when I had nothing and never looked back.

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
 

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