Transfer (Michigan -> Duke) ?

I'm a UM grad (LSA - Econ).

I agree with you and also believe that the career offices / services are terrible if you aren't in Ross.

If you want finance, I think transferring to Duke would be a good idea, as I believe their recruiting / career services are probably better than UM if you aren't in Ross (but note, I don't really have any specific details on Duke).

Although, since you are finishing your sophomore year, I'm not sure if it is too late to be transferring, unless you plan on starting at Duke this upcoming fall.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that if I transferred, I would be starting at Duke this fall as [removed]. I will edit the original post.

Thank you for your thoughts.

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i dont know if this helps or not, but i hope it does:

at usc, our ocr system was set up so that employers screen candidates by major and concentration. but the loop hole in the system was that you could set it up to say that you had a business degree with a concentration in finance, even though you were an econ major, hypothetically. that was how a lot of kids at usc worked past the screen set up by the automated resume-drop system if they were trying to apply to jobs where the employer was screening for a specific major.

see if your ocr resume drop system works the same way. at least you wont have to cold call.

besides that, have you considered transferring into ross? i am assuming you have a pretty good gpa, and if its good enough to transfer into duke, it should be good enough to transfer into ross, right? ross is fuckin sweet. i think its better than duke, but i am sure some people would disagree. umich is a sweet college over all, even though we now rank higher on usnews and we have a better football team...kidding.

i also agree with yost, your not exactly going to be doing MUCH better by transferring to duke. the trade off probably wont be worth the extra cost in tuition and the pain of going through the application process.

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Duke is at the same level as UM, there's no reason to transfer, especially if your only reason for doing so is that career services sucks. If you can't get a job without some underpaid community college grad holding your hand through the process, you really don't deserve one.

I'm a UM Grad too, '08. I graduated from Ross in finance/strategy, but my 1st 2 years I actually spent in LSA Honors. So I can relate to you a bit. Here's my 2 cents. I will assume you are out-of-state student, because the price increase by going to Duke from instate MI tuition is completely not worth it. Next, I will also assume you will be transferring into Duke's business school (if they offer a 2-yr program). Now, only if that is your exact scenario you MAY want to transfer; LSA career services are not upto par with Ross - true, but they are not THAT bad. They don't just hand you an interview like in Ross, but the reality is there are plenty of LSA students that can sign up for interviews at Ross without being a business student. In fact, most companies prefere the diversity of your background. Your question asked about your career in the field of business, and the reality is UM is ultimately slightly more respected than Duke in business - primarily because it has more Alumni it is more well known. (Obviously not exclusive as Harvard, etc) Also more alumni in business hubs like NY and Chicago. Charlotte prob has more Dukies based on proximity. But the point is Duke's reach is prob a bit less, and does not warrant an entire mid-college transfer. If you are as smart and ambitious as you claim, Duke will not offer you anything that UM cannot, and I would doubt their career services are that much better than UM's. In fact I would venture when companies on interviews ask you why you switched from UM to Duke mid-college an answer of well their career office is terrible is probably not a good answer... Again they want to see passion and ambition, not a hand-me down. If you want a career in business you're gonna have to learn that you'll be cold calling, as you say, a lot. Better learn and practice now rather than when you actually are in the real world.

Another thing to consider... if your GPA is that good, why wipe it out and start over as a transfer? Your Duke GPA will most likely only include classes taken at Duke. It's not worth the risk in my opinion. You have plenty of time at this point to do the networking you need to do to land a job.

Stay at Michigan. If you're #1 in Econ, you will be able to get good internships and you will be able to get interviews with a little networking.

Also consider even if you go to Ross (or transfer into Duke's business school) you have to be in the top % of your class to get interviews.

Thanks dredd, mr1234, kote, jrt, and ladyeva. Mr1234, I have already been accepted to Duke so I don't have to worry about the pain of transfer applications and I have thought about the risk inherent in transferring (a bird in the hand...) based on what I've already built for myself here at UM. It's definitely a good point to bring up.

[Removed personal information]

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I don't see how having good grades implies lack of social life. I think you're just insecure because you have a 2.8 (I see that you recently removed this from your profile). By the way, you're giving a pretty crappy representation of our alumni network. If I had monkey shit, yost, I would throw it at you.

Well the obvious answer is Yes, bud. Of course, there are some companies that will only recruit at Ross and not in LSA. Can't give you a hugely accurate estimate, but from interviewing 2 yrs ago I would peg that more than 75% of the companies that came to visit accepted not just Ross students. So let's say 25% only recruit at Ross. So yes, SOME opportunities will be unavailable to you. But that doesn't necessarily mean they will be available at Duke. This isn't UM lovefest, but practically speaking there is a reason these prestigious schools have a specific business school. If you like business you go there, and companies know this, and hence they only recruit there. If they are picking 1/2 candidates out of 15-20 spots they dont need to waste time to look elsewhere, its only a back-up luxury for them. However, I am still puzzled why this is even an issue for you. With your execellent background none of this should be an issue for you. In fact, it won't keep you from landing top notch interviews. So unless you have an ex that you absolutely despise cause she f'ed your best friend and you just keep running into her at Rick's or Charley's what's the real issue?

Thanks dredd, that is exactly the kind of information I wanted.

Well part of the reason this is an issue is because I'm quite ignorant, which is why I am asking everyone I know (and, in the case of WSO, everyone I don't know) their opinions on the subject. I'm just admitting that I don't know something and trying to get help so I can make the best decision possible. That's all.

The other issue, surprisingly enough, is financial aid. I didn't believe it either but the financial aid office here royally screwed me. Not everyone is rich, you know...

i dont really know either school, but if you are a top student and it seems like duke is offering you better aid to go there why cant you ask UMs fin aid office to reconsider? i think they wouldnt want to lose a top student

also if u are number 1 in your class how did u not get into Ross or is that you didnt apply because you werent interested at the time and now you cant change that

Dredd, yes, Duke is currently offering me much better financial aid. Michigan is giving me nothing. No, I don't understand why (and neither do my parents) but I plan to use my acceptances to other universities to renegotiate a package here.

"you will obviously lack the experience either from internships or just general knowledge of business than someone in a business school - that should be your concern not inverviewing with Goldman."

Yes, I know. It's a fault of my character, as I tend to set pretty high goals. Do you have any suggestions (aside from internships)? Thanks in advance.

Yost, while I appreciate the advice buried within your posts, when you speak to me like that I naturally get defensive. I'd prefer to get along with everyone here, particularly if they will be in my alumni network.

Breakinginnew, yes, you are correct. I did not apply to Ross because at the time, I was not interested and now I cannot change that. I have also planned from the beginning to use my acceptances at other universities to renegotiate my financial aid package with UM. Wish me luck, because ceteris paribus I would like to stay...

I don't trust any econ major to have a 4.0 if he says "all else equal" when there's a latin phrase that will do 100x better

My biggest suggestion would be study for the CFA - chartered financial analyst. Its a professional certification (3 lvls, worry about lvl 1 now). Basically a self study course equivalent of at least 1 full year of BBA courses if not more. Covers pretty much everything in finance/accounting/econ on a basic level. Its 6 books, about 500-800 pages each. At least takes 6 months to study, some people take it multiple times if they do not pass. Its absolutely no joke - but having gone through it you'll know so much more, covers stuff that most likely you won't have covered in school, and is more applicable to real finance (still off though). Your 1-3 yrs you'll stil be just playing around excel so if you actually plan on making decisions just might as well start your own company now. Do you even know what area of business you are interested in? Have you gone to presentations from companies? Have you joined any on-campus business fraternities or clubs? The word business isnt very telling. Everyone likes money. That doesnt mean you like business. BTW, if you're in LSA Honors does the old santa looking professor still teach that 1st year english course with all the greek literature?

Haha Drexelalum, I just changed it. I didn't want to sound pompous or anything, but I guess I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Dredd, [removed response containing personal information].

Haha no, Dr. Cameron retired last year. I got him for his last year teaching Great Books.

I guess I will throw out another option here. What are your guys' thoughts on transferring to Ross right now and staying for 5 years as an undergraduate (the Ross curriculum is 3 years and inflexible)? The official application deadline has passed but given the things you guys have said, it might be a good idea to try to pull some strings and see if I can make it happen (assuming I can deal with the financial aid situation).

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Where do you get that from? There was only ONE post here that even TOUCHED on Duke OCR.

dredd4567:

I'm a UM Grad too, '08. I graduated from Ross in finance/strategy, but my 1st 2 years I actually spent in LSA Honors. So I can relate to you a bit. Here's my 2 cents. I will assume you are out-of-state student, because the price increase by going to Duke from instate MI tuition is completely not worth it. Next, I will also assume you will be transferring into Duke's business school (if they offer a 2-yr program). Now, only if that is your exact scenario you MAY want to transfer; LSA career services are not upto par with Ross - true, but they are not THAT bad. They don't just hand you an interview like in Ross, but the reality is there are plenty of LSA students that can sign up for interviews at Ross without being a business student. In fact, most companies prefere the diversity of your background. Your question asked about your career in the field of business, and the reality is UM is ultimately slightly more respected than Duke in business - primarily because it has more Alumni it is more well known. (Obviously not exclusive as Harvard, etc) Also more alumni in business hubs like NY and Chicago. Charlotte prob has more Dukies based on proximity. But the point is Duke's reach is prob a bit less, and does not warrant an entire mid-college transfer. If you are as smart and ambitious as you claim, Duke will not offer you anything that UM cannot, and I would doubt their career services are that much better than UM's. In fact I would venture when companies on interviews ask you why you switched from UM to Duke mid-college an answer of well their career office is terrible is probably not a good answer... Again they want to see passion and ambition, not a hand-me down. If you want a career in business you're gonna have to learn that you'll be cold calling, as you say, a lot. Better learn and practice now rather than when you actually are in the real world.

Considering Duke OCR was described as BETTER, I doubt see how you feel it is being bashed.

If you do 5 years double major with lsa without hesitation. Course load ain't that bad. Also you'll have more credits for future education such as CPA. Ultimately accounting is basis for everything and is highly undervalued. Duke is great school don't get me wrong, just to switch though Im saying you won't be gaining that much, finances aside. Email professor brophy and Middleton. Get their opinions. They r great b school profs. Brophy knows a shitload about HF, PE, etc. Len knows venture and business development well. Get their opinion. They are easy to talk to and have immense insight.