Very Unusual Situation, but Help in Deciding Between MSF, MBA, MFE, or MFinMath
Hello all,
So basically, I want to be some type of a quant--not necessarily creating these crazy arbitrage trades and building algorithms all day every day, but I want something that is mathematically rigorous and uses a lot of financial theory. I have looked at quant-driven funds, risk positions, quant research, and quant investment analyst positions, and all of these seem to be close to what I consider ideal (although PE sounds sick as well). Here is where the dilemma lies:
I really like math, and am a double major in finance and statistics, and a minor in mathematics at my undergraduate university (NYU Stern). I have a decent GPA, but nowhere near stellar and know this can be my downfall (it's between a 3.0-3.5 currently, going into my last semester of senior year. FWIW, I have taken a few quant-heavy masters and phd-level classes as electives as well as the most difficult undergraduate classes offered at stern and hopefully this aids in justifying my less-than-stellar GPA. Also, got a certificate for completing a course in 'Computational Finance and Financial Econometrics' from University of Washington through Coursera). Professionally, I'd like to say I have done well: After various school-year finance internships, I secured a SA position this past summer at a BB in one of the coverage groups, but accepted a FT offer at another BB in their M&A group. However, this form of IB isn't exactly what I want to do. Call me crazy, but I find the heavy quant work that risk does, or other quantitatively-heavy analyst positions are far more fascinating, albeit less-glamorous.
This is where the problems begin. After my SA stint, I would like to go ahead and obtain a graduate degree, but am unsure of which to get. My math skills are better than most people in my situation (i.e. not a math major), however I don't know any PDE's or how to program (aside from VERY basic R and MatLab we had to learn in oder to complete problem sets for stats class), which is usually what is required before one enters a an M.F.E. program. What is right for me?
Here is how I see it:
MBA-Redundant. Most of my classes are with MBA students at this point anyway, and I feel as if it is almost too broad for someone like me, who wants to go into a more quant heavy position and already went to an undergraduate business institution.
MSF-I was formerly under the impression that this program was a step up from an MBA, and taught a lot of the quantitatively rigorous financial theory, but not at the PhD in finance level. Still applicable, and great if you wanted to be a quant. This is what I was formerly going to attempt to obtain (specifically a program like Vanderbilt, BC, etc.) to make me a more attractive applicant to quant positions, but it seems as though I was incorrect, and that this degree is a watered down MBA for people that don't have work experience. Input? Is this program similar to like a financial mathematics program?
MFE-I was inspired to really look into being a quant after learning about the Black-Derman-Toy interest rate model in one of my classes, and that was the product of financial engineers. However, I don't think my math skills are good enough to be at an engineering school, and I would not want to be a pure computer programmer for a financial institution, although the classes that i have seen that are offered are indeed fascinating, I don't think my background justifies my enrollment in those classes.
MFinmath--completely mysterious degree that not many institutions have save for like stanford, columbia, uchicago, etc. Seems like most people in those programs are post PhDs, so don't think that is the appropriate program for me, either.
Any help in shedding light on this would be amazing, as well as career suggestions in terms of roles and firms I have not looked at yet, or do not know exist. FWIW, I had a superday at Prudential Fixed Income for their quantitative research analyst position and LOVED it, however, I was not selected. Are there similar programs or firms that do that sort of thing out there for people like me, even at the post-undergraduate-non-math-major level?
Feel free to PM!
I think MSF, MFE, and M Financial Math are all basically different names for the same program. For example, Stanford calls its program Financial Math, but Berkeley calls its an MFE - they're basically the same thing, so I think the distinction above is more one of nomenclature than actual substance.
I've looked into all of these programs but ultimately decided to apply to MBA programs. It all comes down to what sandbox you want to play in. If you get an MFE, just know that when you're interviewing for quantitative research jobs, you'll be competing with Pengwei (Joseph) Xi, the top 0.01% Chinese Math Olympiad winning, bifocal clad, antisocial computer programming machine.
I needed to make a similar decision recently and I tended to go with a MBA as well - unless you're spectacularly brilliant, to make it huge in pure quant research is nearly impossible. I too, like the OP, work in FT BB IBD type job and have a keen interest in quant finance. OP - I'd like to suggest this - try to get on the desk with a few quants in different areas and different firms and see if that's actually what you wanna do for most of your life. A lot of times people (myself included) think they want to be a quant, whereas in reality either a) they're not suited to be in a brain numbing environment that quant fin really is b) they'd be more than content to do something more quantitative than IBD but less than pure quant research. Something like structured products trading, HY research comes to mind
Two thoughts: look at where the exits from the program are going or talk to someone where you want to work.
So the easy step would be check to see what jobs people are getting when they leave the programs, but schools are shady and make that data nearly useless.
Hard step, but likely more useful, go talk to some people at firms you want to work at, almost anyone really, probably above entry level, lower than director, the Assoc/VP range is good, they always have time for coffee. Key tip, don't approach it as you want to work for them, they get handouts and emails and kids begging to work for them all day. Be upfront, present that you want in to this industry, ask what will make you the most valuable when you graduate. Call 15 people, get 5 coffees, they can answer your question.
Thanks all. And I think oliver13 hit the nail on the head-->more quant than IBD but not completely pure quant research would definitely be best suited for me. I will definitely look into the structured products training and HY Research, and if anyone else knows of any positions along that same vein it would be immensely helpful. Just out of curiousity, what types of background are they looking for? Is it along the whole MSF/MFinMath/MFE route, or would an MBA suffice, or either or?
And just for my own sanity, the whole rumor that M.S. Finance is for people who want a "mini reset button"(taken directly from another thread) who want to go into finance but have no background and this provides for a watered down MBA, that is false? The M.S. Finance program is a step above where I currently am, i.e. undergraduate finance major, and a step below the really heavy MFE or PhD in finance curriculum?
Most MFin programs are not quantitative except for MIT and Princeton. Or at least not as quantitative as employers (Quant HFs) would like them to be. MFins would place well at the analyst level in IBD, Research, Trading - which is pretty much everything you'd want to do except for quant roles.
Employers are still getting comfortable with MFE as a substitute for PhDs in quant roles. MFin definitely does not cut it for those roles.
OP - if I were you I'd try for MIT - best brand name in the area and program is great too.
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