What is my position for full-time or lateral recruiting?

city_of_dis's picture
Rank: Monkey | 30

Last week I was forced to accept a summer analyst offer at a middle market firm (Piper Jaffray/Cowen/Stifel/Oppenheimer/Raymond James) that I'm not happy with. I really don't want to work there full time.

My goal is to work in M&A at a top 3 BB or EB. I don't want to work on the buyside and don't care about PE recruiting.

I have a 3.9+ at an Ivy and prior experience in finance my sophomore summer (in PE/HF/AM). How easy or difficult will it be to (a) recruit full-time or (b) lateral after a year? What should I do to set myself up for the move apart from continuing to network (and obviously receiving a return offer from the MM place)? Would appreciate if only people in the industry answered and high school/college students kept their speculation to themselves. Thank you.

Comments (38)

Nov 17, 2017

How does a 3.9 Ivy student with a sophomore summer finance internship not land a BB / EB internship. Did you mess up all of your first rounds / superdays or barely network?

Nov 17, 2017

I didn't get first rounds at a single BB despite extensive networking, except for at a regional office of a lower-tier one. I guess I messed up my two first rounds with EB's.

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Nov 18, 2017
city_of_dis:

I didn't get first rounds at a single BB despite extensive networking, except for at a regional office of a lower-tier one.

Not hard to see why. Ironically all that networking was probably the reason why you didn't even receive first rounds. Clearly nobody thought you were likable.

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Nov 18, 2017

I've been told directly by multiple people I've networked with that I'm personable and likable, so no, it's not that.

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Nov 23, 2017
city_of_dis:

I didn't get first rounds at a single BB despite extensive networking, except for at a regional office of a lower-tier one. I guess I messed up my two first rounds with EB's.

Why do you think you didn't get any BB 1st rounds and didn't get past EB 1st rounds? Honest question. I think some self-reflection would help you out. You certainly weren't lacking anything technical, so what was it?

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Nov 17, 2017

Just because you go to an Ivy with a 3.9 doesn't guarantee you anything, especially when breaking into the investment banking industry.

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Nov 17, 2017

The entitlement in this post is unreal.

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Nov 17, 2017

Ambition, not entitlement. I'm sorry it makes you uncomfortable.

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Nov 18, 2017

Im the one with an EB offer, not stuck in MM so I think I'm chilling but nice try

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Feb 14, 2018
city_of_dis:

Ambition, not entitlement. I'm sorry it makes you uncomfortable.

The output of ambition is striving to achieve your goals, no matter the cost. You admitted in this thread that you didn't sufficiently prepare for technical interview questions for an EB interview. I'm not seeing ambition there.

There are guides available on this very site that will sufficiently prepare you for IB technical questions. There are only so many technical questions asked, and they are almost identical in every IB interview. Knowing them is table stakes for breaking into IB.

Entitlement is the belief that you deserve a BB/EB offer, despite the fact that you've already admitted that you didn't put the effort in. You are entitled.

Nov 17, 2017

I hope you don't get a return offer from your MM.

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Nov 17, 2017

Damn, did I ruffle some feathers? Lol

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Best Response
Nov 17, 2017
city_of_dis:

Damn, did I ruffle some feathers? Lol

"Did I ruffle some feathers?" The fact that you don't immediately understand why people would not respond warmly to your post clearly indicates why you didn't end up at a BB or EB firm you on paper are qualified for. Lets go through your initial post to see if we can explain why this is.

city_of_dis:

Last week I was forced to accept a summer analyst offer at a middle market firm (Piper Jaffray/Cowen/Stifel/Oppenheimer/Raymond James) that I'm not happy with. I really don't want to work there full time.

You were "forced" at accept the offer? Did they hold a gun to your head and tell you to sign the paper work? If you felt you were too good for that firm, you certainly could've declined the offer. Also, you're not happy with it? It baffles me that someone with exactly 0 experience in an industry (not to mention an incredibly competitive one with a high learning curve) would not be happy to accept and offer anywhere. I don't know if you realize but there are kids at other colleges that had far less opportunity than you did who would kill for an offer at any of the firms you mentioned. And you "really don't want to work there full time"? How do you know that without actually having done a single day of the internship? What are other firms going to offer you that the one you accepted an offer with won't? Two sentences in, and you already reek with elitism, pretension, and entitlement.

city_of_dis:

Would appreciate if only people in the industry answered and high school/college students kept their speculation to themselves. Thank you.

Well, I think everyone on this forum would appreciate if you tried using the search function or using google to find and read one of the million and a half articles online that cover this topic instead of making spend their time telling you information that is already out there and easy to ind. I imagine you already think your time is more valuable than other's (even those 'in the industry' who work crazy hours and have more responsibilities than you), so not too surprised you would go this route.

Listen, it would be one thing if you ended up with a summer internship in a role you didn't want to pursue long term, but you said yourself you want to do banking long term, so going into the summer with the attitude that you don't want to work at this firm full time is sh!t. The people at this firm are not only taking a huge leap of faith by taking you, but they are investing time and money to train you, and now you are wasting that and the limited intern spot they could've filled with someone who would be open to working their full time. I hope you don't get a return offer too.

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Nov 17, 2017
xxx-ThrowAway-xxx:
city_of_dis:

Damn, did I ruffle some feathers? Lol

"Did I ruffle some feathers?" The fact that you don't immediately understand why people would not respond warmly to your post clearly indicates why you didn't end up at a BB or EB firm you on paper are qualified for.

The fact that you don't immediately recognize sarcasm when it walks up and introduces itself indicates why you spent time out of your day to write out four paragraphs that add no value and provide neither myself nor the future readers of this thread with any insight into the topic at hand. But I'll entertain you, if only for the sake of entertainment.

xxx-ThrowAway-xxx:

Lets go through your initial post to see if we can explain why this is.

Enlighten me, wise one.

xxx-ThrowAway-xxx:
city_of_dis:

Last week I was forced to accept a summer analyst offer at a middle market firm (Piper Jaffray/Cowen/Stifel/Oppenheimer/Raymond James) that I'm not happy with. I really don't want to work there full time.

You were "forced" at accept the offer? Did they hold a gun to your head and tell you to sign the paper work? If you felt you were too good for that firm, you certainly could've declined the offer. Also, you're not happy with it? It baffles me that someone with exactly 0 experience in an industry (not to mention an incredibly competitive one with a high learning curve) would not be happy to accept and offer anywhere. I don't know if you realize but there are kids at other colleges that had far less opportunity than you did who would kill for an offer at any of the firms you mentioned. And you "really don't want to work there full time"? How do you know that without actually having done a single day of the internship? What are other firms going to offer you that the one you accepted an offer with won't? Two sentences in, and you already reek with elitism, pretension, and entitlement.

How insightful! I had no idea there were people worse off than me in the world. Yes, let's all put aside our goals and ambitions and praise the Lord for our good health, warm beds, full stomachs, and summer analyst offers at mid-tier middle market investment banks. People who think like that never get anywhere, so forgive me if I don't intend to compare myself to those worse than me, but instead compare myself to those better than me. I suppose it also baffles you that truck drivers aren't happy that they have the privilege of eating burgers for $1.99 every day at McDonald's - after all, look at all those starving people in Africa!

xxx-ThrowAway-xxx:

Listen, it would be one thing if you ended up with a summer internship in a role you didn't want to pursue long term, but you said yourself you want to do banking long term, so going into the summer with the attitude that you don't want to work at this firm full time is sh!t.

Why would that be one thing? Working outside of banking was something I did NOT want. Working at this particular firm was also something I did NOT want. In the end, I got an offer that I did NOT want for one reason or another, so I don't see why I should be groveling at my employer's feet and thanking them for it like you suggest.

xxx-ThrowAway-xxx:

The people at this firm are not only taking a huge leap of faith by taking you, but they are investing time and money to train you, and now you are wasting that and the limited intern spot they could've filled with someone who would be open to working their full time.

Really? Are they really though? Just checking on LinkedIn, I'm the most qualified candidate this firm has taken in a while (perhaps ever) for their summer analyst program. What, exactly, is their alternative? Not hiring any analysts? I don't think so. They should feel more privileged to have me, as I am better than the average employee they typically hire for this position. I'm not sure where that logic is lost on you and your shit-slinging ilk, lurking in the shadows.

xxx-ThrowAway-xxx:

I hope you don't get a return offer too.

I will get a return offer though, because I've never received anything but positive feedback from every employer I've had and have received return offers for all my prior positions. I will also get a BB/EB offer for next year, even if it's against the wishes of every vindictive, spiteful, groveling, authoritarian individual on this so-called forum.

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Nov 18, 2017

I'm not going to respond to every convoluted and misguided point you attempted to make in that response, but I hope to leave you with something constructive that will hopefully guide you to more success in your future career.

If you are " the most qualified candidate this firm has taken in a while (perhaps ever) for their summer analyst program," why is that? and furthermore, if you have received nothing but "positive feedback from every employer I've had and have received return offers for all my prior positions" how come you don't have an BB/EB offer right now? All of my friends who had successful sophomore -> junior internships with proper PE/HF/AM firms (especially those who go to targets with high GPAs) had opportunities to, at the very least, get first round interviews with a number of EB/BB firms - so I can't imagine you didn't. What went wrong with those interviews that you weren't able to land a SA position with them? I believe if you can figure this out (I, as well as everyone else who has read your posts thus far have), you will have the opportunity to go far in your career

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Nov 24, 2017

Christ, you remind me of the berkeley kids at the boutique I interned at who'd kiss ass just to land the gig then fell asleep at their desks or created garbage models. Not surprised you didn't get an offer. I have the utmost amount of empathy for whoever ends up being your analyst. Grow up - you're not entitled to anything, chief. If you really think the MM firm is so beneath you, absolutely kill it over the summer to the point that you're the first guy getting a return offer, then leverage that into a FT offer at a BB firm.

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Nov 29, 2017

Even if you do well in school, go to a top school, and can ace a test that doesn't fix your entitled attitude. A 3.9 GPA won't make you more pleasant to work with especially for 15 hours a day. Getting rejected from several places should be humbling and bring introspection. No one owes you a job especially in a career as competitive as investment banking. The fact that you think you are better than everyone else than all the other summer analysts you will be working with shows exactly why you did not secure a BB or EB internship. Best of luck.

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Feb 14, 2018

As someone who went through the process of lateraling from a boutique (much lower on the totempole than the firms you mentioned), you suck and you definitely don't have what it takes to lateral. The full-time recruiting process heavily depends on people liking you enough to take a chance on you and you couldn't convince a bunch of strangers on a like minded forum to give you advice. You come off as an entitled asshole, I genuinely hope you're not as much of one in real life or you're going to be "forced" out of the firm you're summering at.

My honest two cents: Drop the attitude, review your weaknesses (either technical or behavioural) and work on them.

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Mar 9, 2018

Why did you apply to said MM firm if you did NOT want to end up working there?
And also why don't want to work on the buyside or do PE recruiting but solely M&A?

Nov 17, 2017

Because MM is better than unemployment or non-IB job.

M&A is better long-term for developing a broader network. Notice how the most successful people in finance are those who grind their way to the top of M&A first and then found their own investment banks or buyout funds (Moelis, Perella, Schwarzman, Wasserstein etc). Going into PE as an associate is a dead end where your best case scenario is ending up as a partner and sitting on a few boards, whereas banking if you keep grinding there's always a way to move up in the ranks. For someone who doesn't care about culture or work-life balance or comp, it seems like a better path to follow.

That's my thought process anyway.

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Nov 18, 2017

Does anyone have anything constructive or remotely useful to say?

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Nov 18, 2017

To be totally frank, work on your attitude first. You got a banking internship, which is already impressive in itself. Focus all your energy on getting that return offer.

In the meantime, you can reach out to people that have experienced FT recruiting before and continuing networking in general. When FT recruitment time rolls around and you have a return offer in hand, you will have that much greater a chance.

There's the "constructive" advice. Like the others said, you should understand what being humble and grateful mean. Obviously don't take all of this personal. It's an anonymous forum and we are just speaking based on the tone of your posts.

All the best.

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Nov 18, 2017

I agree with everything said above. Work on your attitude.

Nov 23, 2017

I understand it will be helpful to reach out to people who did FT recruiting. My question is, how difficult will it actually be to lateral to a BB or EB? I've seen posts saying you're guaranteed to get a lateral offer at an elite bank after a year at one of the places I mentioned, and also posts saying it's almost impossible. If anyone has done this or seen a friend do this, I would appreciate if you could share your experience.

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Nov 24, 2017

Edit: Redacted. Too mean. Hope the other replies help you.

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Nov 28, 2017

I totally understand OP's situation. Just my two cents, I think your background position you well for Top BB or EB, no matter if it's FT or lateral (maybe easier when lateral, and might not lose 1 year if negotiated well), I have seen many people with your background pulled it off.

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Nov 29, 2017

BIG DRAMA SHOW
- Triple G

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

Feb 14, 2018

You should really watch how you talk to people in this forum. I'm almost positive you signed up for your account with your school email and it wouldn't be hard to get that information, find out who you are, and blackball your ass from every facet of the banking industry. If you don't want to be AM then don't take the internship. If you want to be a banker then work on your people skills, I've seen people with severe Asperger's that can pick up on social cues and communicate with others better than you.

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Feb 14, 2018

a) ^ I think this sketchy character is indirectly threatening to obtain confidential information of another user, @mods investigate pls

b) Do you think I'm an idiot? I signed up for this account with a specially created email that I don't use for anything else, and I've never said anything that could help anyone track me down.

c) Never said anything about AM in this thread, I have an investment banking internship at a middle market investment bank which I signed months ago

d) go away

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Feb 14, 2018

I've got more equity on this site than a random hardo with 26 downvotes and 0 upvotes so don't think you can sick the mods on me for stating that something could hypothetically happen.

You posted a thread in December of last year regarding a possible transition from GSAM (FI) to GS IBD so I'm pretty positive your internship offer is in AM. I'd also guess it's toward the lower tier of the list you provided considering two of those firms are not anywhere near the others on league tables (for any group). That's where my assumption of asset management comes from (your own posts). You also stated in a previous thread that you were looking for roommates in NYC so given that information it really wouldn't be a stretch for somebody to figure out who you are. Again, not a threat just stating the obvious that you seem to be ignoring as you prance through this site yelling and smearing your own shit against the wall.

I'd recommend you take every bit of advice provided in this thread if you want your (potential) banking career to have any longevity or even begin in the first place. Good luck kiddo.

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May 13, 2018
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Don't break yourself on the way to making yourself

May 14, 2018
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