What is the point of going to MBB?

Hi! I've been posting a bit on this forum trying to gain a better understanding of the consulting profession. I'm a new hire for Deloitte's BTA Program in Federal Tech. I went to an on-boarding event where they talked about BTAs having made it all the way to principal, which seems very encouraging.

Now, when I was applying to college, I knew there was merit in attending an Ivy League, or top 20 institution, so I did that, and it served me well. Similarly, I now hear there is good in getting into one of the MBBs.

Now I don't understand the reasoning behind that. I'm pretty stoked that I'm in Deloitte's Federal Practice, as it doesn't require a lot of travel, and I get to stay in my hometown, the District. If I could eventually rise through the ranks, to consultant, and senior consultant, manager, senior manager, and maybe even Principal, I'd love to continue as a Deloitte Federal Technology Practitioner. Most projects, get out when the government lets out, around 4 or 5, and again, none of the hassle of traveling. The pay, as I understand, taps out at around the same level (above 200K) for both Deloitte and MBB.

However, I want to make sure I'm not missing some integral advantage of being a part of MBB.

 

I think the idea is that MBB will offer better exit opportunities after a 2 year stint. Most people don't plan on staying in consulting for their entire careers, and MBB gives you some options a lower tier firm wouldn't (PE, hedge funds, top corporate strategy). However, in your case, Deloitte makes a ton of sense. Just realize that you probably won't be able to end up running a fortune 500 company like some people from MBB would. It's all a matter of how much you want to sacrifice in order to advance to the highest levels in your career.

 

I don't know where in the world you are getting that info from. Pay at MBB does not tap out at around 200k......it STARTS around that level at the Post MBA Associate/Consultant role. You should know that, that information has been discussed many many times on both this forum and other areas online.

I think you should spend a LOT of time reading the forum as opposed to making new threads. If you still have questions, come back and ask them.

 

To iConsult's point, I think it all depends on what you want to do long-term. Deloitte Federal is not a bad option by any means, and it definitely has lifestyle advantages vs. most MBB setups (less travel, fewer hours). That being said, you're likely making a definite tradeoff in skills development, exit opportunities, and pay (all somewhat interrelated).

As far as skills development, you will be working in a somewhat niche practice area and technology consulting will be different than strategy consulting. Even in strategy, government consulting is often very different from private sector consulting - I'm currently working on my first public sector case. The client pace is a lot slower, there is more "checking the box on the RFQ" type activities, and the topics are often quite different / can be more executional. Not necessarily an issue, but when we recently hired a lateral mid-level (think engagement manager, project leader, etc.) from Deloitte Federal he struggled with the change of pace, the strategic level of thinking, and quality of analysis / output requisite in an MBB private sector case context. So, what he learned was at least different, and likely not as highly valued outside of govt., than what the people that rose within our MBB firm learned.

As far as exit opportunities, the opportunities at MBB are broader and likely more prestigious on average. You will actively be approached by headhunters for the competitive PE, corporate strategy, etc. positions mentioned above. Which is nice. Furthermore, my understanding is the promotion schedule within the firm can potentially be faster (as quick as 30-31 for partner for a top performer right out of undergrad).

Finally, the ~$200k top out may be true as far as salary below partner in many places, but incentive pay becomes quite substantial making your numbers pretty off on all-in comp. Top performing engagement manager / project leader / team leaders can bring in $300k+ with incentives, and pay can reach ~$500k for those below partner and well into 7-figures for partners. I think the compensation ceiling will tend to be higher in MBB in the more senior roles, and you can reach them more quickly.

Happy to answer more questions or follow-ups, but that's my quick 2 cents.

 
Best Response

Put very bluntly, at the end of the day, McKinsey, Bain and BCG have the brand equity to be able to charge much higher consulting fees than any consulting competitor. This trickles down in very tangible ways into making those firms much more attractive places to work.

1) Generally speaking, you will do much more impactful/challenging work. More often than not, you're not going to hire a team for $500K+/month unless the project is both A) legitimately important and B) legitimately challenging enough to the point where a lesser firm couldn't do the same work for a lower price. Now, the consulting industry obviously isn't a perfectly rational market, and you can certainly find exceptions to the rule, but in general, MBB cases are going to be of higher importance than the ones where the buyer says "screw it, let's go with the cheaper firm and save a few bucks".

2) Because other firms charge lower fees, they have to run leaner. There are 2 forms of this: A) lower compensation at each level and B) more leverage (i.e. more analysts/manager; more managers/partner, etc.). A obviously results in less $ in your pocket year after year, and B results in fewer promotion opportunities.

3) Because of 1 and 2, MBB are able to attract better talent, which in and of itself creates a signaling effect. Having MBB tells headhunters and the like that you're probably pretty talented. Having Deloitte on your resume means you probably tried to get a job at MBB but weren't able to, and you can draw your own conclusions from there. Again, we don't live in a world with perfectly rational hiring markets, and there are certainly several Deloitte consultants out there that are very talented and there are certainly several MBB consultants that aren't, but in general, the prestige/brand factor holds up.

 

I think the bigger distinction that should be made is between strategy consulting and government technology consulting.

I work in a tier-2 firm (S&O/S&/OW/LEK) and the work that we do, while not always at the level of MBB, is definitely comparable and therefore much more high-level and strategic than tech consulting. We are still heavily trained in the same hypothesis-based approaches, analytical techniques, and presentation skills as our MBB counterparts, and for the most part, our exit opportunities are similar. The difference lies, as humblebot points out, in the signaling effect and top end of the available work/exit opps: I'm not about to break into PE anytime soon or work on a developmental project for the government of Nigeria (I'd give up a lot to do either), but I will still have a fine shot of getting into Google BizOps, MIT Sloan for b-school, and so forth.

Bottom line is three things:

(1) If you're not from MBB, certain doors close for you. (2) If you're from a Tier 2 strategy firm, many of the same doors are still open, but you have to fight harder relative to your MBB peers. (3) Outside of the Tier 2 firms, the drop-off gets faster and steeper in terms of training and exit opps.

I think the best thing for you might be to see if you can lateral into Deloitte S&O - that would be really expand your optionality, if that's what you're looking for.

 

I should caveat my previous statement with more context - we're all saying very consistent things here, but for readers with only passing knowledge of the consulting industry, some of our discussion could be viewed as contradictory.

My post about the MBB v. Tier-2 v. non-strategy is most relevant to recent undergraduates heading into BA/A/AC level positions in consulting. At the end of the day, our second employers (should we decide to move on) will know that within 1-2 years of our taking a new role, many of us will end up going to business school. This is healthy, because as young analysts, we shouldn't only have consulting tools at our disposal. In fact, execution skills are often ignored in consulting and a point of emphasis that older people like to bring up when I talk to them about eventually rising into general management roles.

Given this, talent at the post-undergraduate consulting level tends to be a lot more fungible (within certain limits). There are other great shops out there beyond the ones I've already mentioned- ATK, EY-Parthenon, and Marakon, just to name a few - that will lend you credibility in the business world, albeit to somewhat varying degrees. On the other hand, post-MBA roles are a little bit different. I do feel a little sorry for the M7 folks that I know who didn't land MBB because the delta in exit opps and opportunity start to widen at that point.

To give you more context, all of us BA/A/AC folks who are giving you advice are glorified analysis junkies - we organize data, make models, and present them in slides, sometimes to management but more often than not to our internal teams. It's at the post-MBA level where you start to get serious client interaction. If your client interaction is more skewed towards SVP/VP/Sr. Director level folks (Tier 2 consulting) rather than CXO/EVP/SVP people (MBB), your development/exit opps do vary more.

I still haven't really told the whole story, but I hope this sheds a little more light on where some of the differences in development and exit opps in particular stem from (at least from my point of view).

 
undefined:

How difficult is it to get into Deloitte S&O compared to MBB? At the MBA level.

Break it down for me in numbers, so I get a sense (ie. Out of 100 MBA resumes, MBB interviews 10, gives out offers to 5...vs....Deloitte interviews 30 out of 1000 and gives offers to 15, something like that).

Also, what levels of GMATs do OW and Deloitte S&O like to see?

Deloitte is significantly easier. Any numbers are going to be completely anecdotal and vary by program. FWIW, for a school I was heavily involved in MBB recruiting for: 80 MBA resumes yielded 5 interview slots and 1 offer.

Deloitte wants ~680 and above, don't know about OW.

 
undefined:

How difficult is it to get into Deloitte S&O compared to MBB? At the MBA level.

Break it down for me in numbers, so I get a sense (ie. Out of 100 MBA resumes, MBB interviews 10, gives out offers to 5...vs....Deloitte interviews 30 out of 1000 and gives offers to 15, something like that).

Also, what levels of GMATs do OW and Deloitte S&O like to see?

At my M7: about 200 apply to MBB, and 160 to Deloitte.

Bain interviewed around 120 closed list, and 45 open list. 30 offers, of which 20 accepted.

BCG interviewed ~85 closed list, and ~32 open list. Around 30 offers and 20 accepted also.

Deloitte interviewed ~80 closed list and 30 open list. 17 people ended up interning there (not sure exact number of offers given out)

The raw odds aren't really that different. The difference arises in that people who get cross-offers choose MBB over Deloitte ~75-80% (slowly changing as S&O rises) of the time. That said Deloitte won every other cross-offer battle by large margins (s&, ATK, LEK, etc)

 
opsdude1:

At my M7: about 200 apply to MBB, and 160 to Deloitte.

Bain interviewed around 120 closed list, and 45 open list. 30 offers, of which 20 accepted.

BCG interviewed ~85 closed list, and ~32 open list. Around 30 offers and 20 accepted also.

Deloitte interviewed ~80 closed list and 30 open list. 17 people ended up interning there (not sure exact number of offers given out)

The raw odds aren't really that different.

You go to Kellogg, right? Yeah, the accepts there aren't very different. The issue is that as you go to lower and lower tier schools, Deloitte continues to grab a lot of people whereas MBB takes fewer and fewer. The actual TOTAL numbers are very different than just the numbers at a single school. Going by TOTAL numbers, Deloitte S&O is much easier than MBB. (1) I just googled Ross's employment report. Ross is a great school, but they're "on the bubble" for MBB recruiting, and it shows in the numbers. https://michiganross.umich.edu/sites/default/files/uploads/Community/pd… From that link: Deloitte: 69 Mck: 31 BCG: 22 Bain: 19 I used the "total" number. So even a school slightly less prestigious (e.g., Ross), the numbers for MBB are way down from Deloitte. (2) I went to USC's MBA employment page: http://www.marshall.usc.edu/mbacareer/employers%20 Deloitte Consulting is listed as a top employer for both full time and summers for 2014. Zero of MBB are listed. That was a quick five minute scan -- I'm sure I could find more. The TOTAL accepts/applicants is much higher for Deloitte because they'll take any solid applicant / interviewer from any solid school. MBB relies on the schools to do much of their filtering, and then they take the great applicants from the best schools. As has been noted, if both MBB and Deloitte wants a candidate, MBB gets them and not Deloitte. By the way, the 75-80% number you mentioned is low. MBB actually wins a HIGHER percentage of cross-offers with Deloitte, per data I have seen from the career services of an M7 school.
 

I've really enjoyed reading through this thread. I was just wondering what firms either boutique or larger, can provide the closest opportunities within the firm and once you exit To MBB. I'd be most interested within the UK consulting market, but any information would be useful.

Thanks!

 

Not sure about the UK market specifically, but my impression is that Strategy& is pretty good (legacy PwC is pretty good there and having Booz only adds to their strength), as are LEK, OW, Roland Berger, and Deloitte S&O. I've heard OC&C isn't bad either; not sure about ATK, EY-Parthenon, or Marakon in the UK.

To answer your implicit question about going to MBB after a few years and an MBA... what I generally saw from my school's M7 recruiting process, at least from my the MBAs that I interacted with, was that there were much clearer distinctions in talent selection than at the undergrad level. By that, I mean that it was pretty clear that the most talented people were given offers by MBB and less talented people went to Tier 2 because there are so many more offers available, and thus randomness in selection was much less prevalent. (At my Tier 2, there are about 4 MBA offers per undergrad offer, and I think it's pretty similar at MBB).

So really, the better question is, how do you build a compelling set of experiences and skills that translates to MBB, and more importantly, to the rest of your career? I think that it definitely starts with finding projects and roles that will challenge your skill set and give you the opportunity to grow. For example, if you're an Excel jock, it's great to get on an op model redesign or transformation project and sharpen storytelling/client skills (or vice versa). Or, if you feel comfortable with corporate strategy, to do an operations/execution project. (Contrary to what most people on this board think, it is NOT good to only do pure strategy projects - it is much less useful than is commonly believed).

I've also noticed that really successful consultants have interests outside of work (and that goes beyond the obligatory 30 minute gym session that everybody does). Some of my friends do triathlons and marathons; others are entrepreneurs; others are passionate about social impact and donate as much of their time as possible to volunteering and pro-bono work. Many do some combination of the above and other things that I haven't mentioned. In general, I've always been advised to avoid going past the 80/20 point at work whenever possible and to have a life outside of work - makes the job more sustainable and helps us retain our well-roundedness. I can't imagine it's any different for anybody else.

Hope that's helpful - if I'm off-base, others should chime in, especially the MBB's who would actually know the fine details of their recruiting process.

 

The application "numbers" aren't instructive. I can only speak to undergrad recruiting, but the way the process works is that MBB timelines are a little bit ahead of the other firms, so it's fairly common for candidates to get MBB offers and then drop out of the interview process at the other firms.

So at the end of the day, you might see 200 applications, 80 interviews, 5 offers (numbers are illustrative) at both BCG and Deloitte, but because the top candidates all self-selected out of Deloitte's application process at some point, that doesn't mean they're on par in selectiveness.

 

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