If you are in a mid-office group as a summer intern, what is the best way to play the situation?
1 Work hard all summer and just get the offer from your summer internship company for the mid-office group so that when you have your full time interviews with other i-banks you can tell them you already have this offer
or
2 Or network within your summer internship company and try to get an interview with the front office group, but then of course risk losing connections with the mid-office group and if you do not get the offer from the front office group you are left with nothing
Which one of these options would you recommend?
even if you choose #1, your eventually going to do #2 when your ft..
And so your saying to do which one........?
Middle office job is not where the fun lies.
I actually had feew offers from Big Banks in miidle office including my dream firm. But its hard I just said No though. Because I was out of time and graduated from school.
Vijay
Why is this a question. You would obviously do both. Work really hard to get the offer, and still network to get connections to front office. You won't lose connections with mid-office if you do well. And if you don't get the mid-office offer, don't even think about interviewing for front office.
I'd definitely go with #1. If the middle office finds out you're trying to get into the front office, they're going to realize you won't accept a full-time offer from them so they're not going to give you one, even if you're the best summer intern they've ever had. Period.
I think you could do a little bit of DISCREET networking with the front office, but discretion is important here.
Once you have a full-time offer from the middle office division secured, you can start talking with the front office about interviewing there.
Not true. I worked in middle office two summers ago and made it very clear that I wanted to work in front office the next summer. I still got the offer and was told if I ever wanted to come back, I had a job waiting for me. If you're a good intern, the bank is going to want to keep you, no matter if you work in front or mid-office. Obviously mid-office is gonna want to keep you there, but as long as you stay with the bank, HR will be happy.
I disagree. You may have had a nice group that truly wanted the best for you, but most groups want the best for themself. The best is definitely not giving a summer analyst an offer they're not going to accept if they get a front office position, and then having to wait months to find out if they get something better and not knowing whether or not you'll need to fill that spot.
Plus, there is a different HR team for each division (as in a different one for IB, a different one for Equity, a different one for Operations, etc.) and each HR team is primarily concerned with doing their own job - that is, filling up their own analyst class with the best people. I know every bank says they're flexible and want the best for you, but in most cases that's simply not true. Moreover, HR isn't even the ones making the decision of whether or not you get an offer - the group does (although at some banks, HR has some, but minimal impact). And your group will have no motivation to give you an offer they know you won't accept.
Wait so you are saying it is possible to get a full time offer with the middle office group, and still interview with front office groups in the same company? I was not aware this was possible, I did not know that you can get an offer from different divisions within the same investment bank
To the best of my knowledge, yes. You wouldn't end up with "2 offers" from 2 different divisions..what would happen is that when the front office was ready to give you an offer, HR from the front office would explain to you that you have to turn down your offer from the middle office before they'll give you the front office offer. Neither the front nor middle offer HR wants you to have 2 offers since, from each HR's perspective, it decreases the odds of you accepting that HR's offer.
what divisions are constituted as "mid office"
1
I'm just wondering if any of you have been in the situation and are speaking from experience or are you just offering advice based on nothing?
Good question. I am not speaking from personal experience, but from the experience of 2 friends. I also think what I'm saying makes common sense.
I guess every bank is different, but I made the transition from mid-office to front office as well as at least 5 of my friends. HR gives you an option to interview with other divisions within the bank, and it is best to be straightforward about your intentions. I'm not saying walk in every day and let your group know you hate it and you want to work in front office, but you also don't have to be secretive like you're doing something behind their back.
That being said you should network on your own personal time. Toward the end of my internship, people knew I was interested in front office. I still got the offer, but I told them I wanted to learn about other divisions within in the bank. I had very good rapport with my group and they realized and understood that my personality and work ethic would be better suited for front office. Of course they weren't estatic that I didn't take the offer, but they were happy that I didn't switch firms.
My main point is that you don't have to choose between option 1 and 2. You can do a good job, get the offer, while still networking and showing an interest in front office. And any bank that would discourage me from interviewing with other divisions is not a bank I would want to work for.
what constitutes as a mid-office division?
i think hes refering to ECM
ECM is not middle office as far as I know.
I know someone who worked in PWM at one bank last year. She worked her ass off, got the offer, then did the fast-track interview route for interns and ended up with a full time offer in S&T at BB before the end of August.
So yeah...do #1. As long as it's a bank that you don't want to work in FO for.
Technically, there's just back office (divisions that don't directly generate P&L) and front office (divisions that directly generate P&L (profit & loss)).
So, back office = operations, IT, etc. front office = IB, corporate banking, capital markets, PWM, s&t, etc. --> these divisions all directly generate P&L
Middle office is kind of a new term - my best guess is it refers to positions that don't directly generate P&L, but closely assist - for example, an technology team that assists the traders in programming models. I think middle office was just something made up by people in the back office to feel better about themselves..
Mid office refers to divisions like Finance and Risk Management within banks. They are usually in charge of Strategy and Planning, Financial Control, and Accounting for the bank itself. So it's different from back office work.
Oh, I see what you mean. There were rumors that banks make you give up your offer if you choose to interview with another division. I'm not sure if that's true.
I guess every bank is different then. Going into my internship, I was advised by multiple people to not say a word if I (a) hated the internship and didn't want to return or (b) wanted to switch divisions (I was in IB over the summer), since any indication that I didn't like my internship would result in me not getting an offer. My bank didn't have a process where you were asked if you wanted to switch divisions or a formal process where you were able to interview with other divisions over the summer. That being said, I know Goldman has a formal process where you can interview with other divisons at the end of the summer, but I heard from a guy at my school who said he expressed interest in switching from S&T to banking and was pretty much told by his group to f*ck off..he did get the opportunity to interview with banking at the end of the summer, but once they found out he didn't get an offer from S&T they weren't interested in him.
I honestly think it's just better to play it safe and be discreet about your interest in another division.
Thanks for the insight, I appreciate it.
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