Where Should I live?
Assuming you could work remote for the foreseeable future and wanted to move to a city where you didn't know anyone, where would you go?
Mid / late twenties looking for some fresh perspectives on different cities with a lot to do outdoors, good cities to meet new people, and relatively LCOL.
Places I am currently considering are:
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Charleston, SC
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Charlotte, NC
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Bend, OR
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Savannah, GA
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Burlington, VT
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Denver / Aurora, CO
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Bozeman, MT
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SLC, NV
I am looking for all feedback on any of these cities listed or other alternatives.
Please don't weigh in with places like NYC or LA, Ive lived in big cities for the past several years and am looking to switch things up. Additionally, please don't take career trajectory into account. I am operating under the assumption that I will have the work for the same company for the next 5 years, with no intention of getting an MBA.
interested
Been to Santa Barbara a couple times over the last few years and I absolutely love it. Basically all the best parts of LA (weather, beach, relaxed vibes) without any of the bad parts (traffic, pollution, homelessness).
It’s big enough that I don’t think you’d get bored, but small enough to easily get around. Plus only 2 hours from LA if you want to do anything there.
+1 SB, Appreciate the perspective, I have always wanted to live in Santa Barbara. I dont know what the COL shakes out to, but I think it would likely be higher than Im looking for.
Also San Diego. Not cheap but one of the nicest places I’ve been. That would be top of my list.
Seconding Santa Barbara. I moved here a few years ago and it's the best place I've ever lived. Wonderful town and right at the top edge of SoCal.
I was debating between moving to Santa Barbara and Irvine. Wound up in Irvine for convenience near family but SB is absolutely gorgeous
Why Charlotte?
If you like the outdoors then Asheville could be cool. If you like the beach then maybe st.Pete or tampa. Others to consider - Nashville, Phoenix, or Austin.
Charlotte seems low key, beautiful, and has the mountains and beaches nearby. Ive heard it is high energy for a smaller city too, which seems cool. I think there would be enough younger folks there to meet people relatively easily.
+1 for your suggestions, Ive considered all of those cities as well except Phoenix.
Charlotte is the same finance/accounting/consulting crowd in a much slower paced environment. The districts people brag about are a few blocks long with a handful of bars/restaurants. Nearby means 3-4 hours for the things you think are interesting.
Nashville?
+1 SB, appreciate the perspective. Can you elaborate on why it grows old?
hey not sure if you meant to comment not anonymous. I would guess it's a pretty small town, but it's not that far from Charleston
Did Savannah in a weekend and that was all I needed to see. Tybee Island kinda cool.
Denver doesn't seem that LCOL anymore, maybe something like Colorado Springs?
Worth pointing out that Colorado Springs has a huge military base and many people there are somewhat involved in that. That's either a positive or negative for OP depending on his background.
Denver is LCOL if you don’t live in the super hip areas. I remember a friend living there for like $650 in a nice house with two roommates about 5-10 mins from LoDo
My colleague works a 10 minute drive from his office in LoDo, paying $1700. Denver is expensive.
Whitefish (or Bigfork depending on your preference, whitefish is more like Bozeman) over Bozeman, which has become a bit like mini LA/Seattle. Summers on the lake and winters skiing in the mountains is hard to beat.
If you're looking for outdoors, would be hard to beat Montana
+1 SB, whitefish sounds amazing and I am looking into it now. It is nearing the top of my list.
Get into fly fishing and go to Montana - the National Parks are also unbeatable
I get the allure of Charleston and its a fun town to visit once in a while but I think the people kinda suck in the age group you mention. A lot work in food & beverage (nothing wrong with that) and are just extending their college experiences at COC cus they have rich parents. They party hard but I found them to be just low quality and uninspiring people. Great town to live in when in early 20s and retirement age but idk if I could last long around 30. I think there are better towns for the criteria you provided...
This is extremely helpful, +1 SB. I am not a partier and am looking to find folks that share my interests (working out, hiking, anything outdoorsy really, action sports, etc.) and volunteering. Definitely not looking to kick it with a bunch of washed up frat bros who never grew up. Of course I understand you arent referring to everyone in Charleston in their 20s, but a high percentage.
It seems like a beautiful town where one could have a lot of fun and meet a lot of new people who were laid back, but I started my research last night so I know next to nothing.
FWIW, I am from New England and have visited a buddy who lives there and works in F&B. Some other posters agree with me on this thread: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/most-overrated-city ... After seeing your post on interests, I just don't think its for you.
Edit to add Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎
I have been in Denver for the last 6 months working a permanently remote job and have no complaints. Highly recommend it. I moved from Chicago for reference.
As a Chicago native who previously lived in Boulder, how do you like it? Was it easy to find "your people" (relatively speaking, it is never easy).
What influenced your decision?
I like living here a lot. Being able to drive places and easily do outdoorsy things has me in a much happier headspace than I was in Chicago. Like most late 20s/early 30s people in Chicago I was itching to try something new and get out of the city. Several of my close friends have already made the move to Denver so that made it much easier to make the jump. Making new friends in Denver has been easier than Chicago in my experience since most people are fairly new to Colorado. I have met a lot of people in my apartment building at the pool this summer and built some friendships from that.
Miami bro - that's where I would go
1) Where do you lean politically?
2) By outdoors what aspects specifically? Do you prefer skiing/hiking or hanging out at the beach 9 months of the year?
3) What are your hobbies?
+1 for asking awesome questions, I will bake my answers into my OP.
1. I dont have a strong stance, and have voted left and right. I have extremely conservative and liberal friends, and neither bothers me the most. As long as people arent shoving their political opinions in my face, Im sure I could do fine just about anywhere.
2. I really like snowboarding / skiing, hiking, wakeboarding, biking, and swimming at the beach. Pretty content with all of the above but a huge snowboarder so being near the mountains is always appealing.
3. Hobbies - weightlifting, snowboarding, playing intramural sports (anything from football to ultimate), wakeboarding, and volunteering. Whereever I move to, I plan on meeting a lot of folks initially through volunteering.
Based on your responses, look into Reno, NV.
Politics wise very much a libertarian/moderate area (usually splits 50/50), the mountains are nearby (you can see them when walking in the city), and Lake Tahoe is a drive away (which covers wakeboarding/swimming). Area is LCOL and Nevada has no state taxes which is an added plus.
my comments are extremely biased because I'm not a mountain person and I'm married, but I've spent time in Savannah Charleston and Charlotte so can offer an opinion
charleston - probably your best food and "culture" out of those 3, I love that city. had my bachelor party there, visit annually for over 15y, special place in my heart. it lacks on outdoors though. the lowcountry has pretty foliage but the beaches are ugly (brown water, silty, flat as a pancake, etc.), far as fuck from mountains, and it's geographically isolated. while they have an airport, it's very regional, you'll be going through ATL or CLT anytime you wanna get away. no clue on the meeting new people, they're less stuck up than charlotte so you'll probably be fine
savannah - red headed stepchild to charleston. no access to beach per se, most of the barrier islands around GA are wildlife refuges so there's not a scene where you pull up, park and walk out onto the sand and there's the ocean, you'll have to go all the way to tybee for that and same as charleston, beaches aren't all that great, better stuff in FL and NC, SC and GA are kinda meh as a whole when it comes to beach quality. ditto for being far as fuck from mountains and anything else. I wouldn't pick savannah purely based on the fact that there's very little to do there if you're thinking about 5y, it's a great place to visit but I'd never live there.
charlotte - people are douchier than NYC in my opinion but for no good reason. it's definitely low key for a big city in absolute terms, the attitude of the residents would lead you to believe it's a tier 1 city, but in the end it's like the little brother that begs his big bro to take him along to the pickup basketball game and then complains when no one passes him the ball. charlotte is a living breathing identity crisis, but it's a fine place to live for sure. good food, plenty of young people (many friends of mine who've lived/still live there do quite well), but will def be your highest CoL of the options I'm reviewing. on the access to beach/mountains, CLT is def closer to the mountains, charleston's 3-3.5hrs away whereas asheville is just over 2hrs, and you've got a great airport, so just depends on what you're looking for.
now, answering the question - if I could work remote for the foreseeable future and moved to a city where I knew nobody? I'd go to Spain, unsure on city (likely basque region). I speak spanish, I can work from anywhere (regulators notwithstanding), great combo of food, surfing, culture, proximity to other stuff.
Just want to point out that pretty much every company doing remote work is restricting it to US only.
Thank you thebrofessor +1 SB. I always appreciate your advice, and this is such a well articulated response. It sounds as though all three cities you reviewed aren't places you would recommend living in.
If you could live anywhere in the US in your 20s with plenty of activities outdoors and with a relatively LCOL, what would you recommend? I love the idea of Spain, but unfortunately that is out of the cards for me.
Tough to answer because all I like to do outdoors is walk, run, and surf, I've never done snow sports and am not really a fan of the mountains.
if I had to pick, I'd consider Puerto Rico. The island is a disaster economically but I could adjust to a different pace of life and also get reeeeeeeally good at surfing.
if you're talking continental only and if I was in my 20s, id pick south Florida (not necessarily miami) if I wasn't living where I am now (and maybe it's one of the places I mentioned, even if I made fun of it!)
Love Asheville to death. If you prefer mountains over beach, can stand a mostly liberal town, and can enjoy a small town, I think you'd enjoy it. Breweries galore, can meet tons of people (although not sure how many of those people you'd come across actually LIVE in Asheville). I'd move there in a heartbeat if my gf would give in.
Another thought could be Raleigh? Been a couple times and it seems like it's growing like crazy. Tech is moving there like wildfire, could be a good spot in 5 years time.
+1 SB, I've heard amazing things about Asheville. The blue ridge mountains are unreal and that alone would be a large incentive.
100%. I miss it to death, driving it on its own is amazing but hiking it is unreal for me. I need to get out of my BB so I can actually have the ability to work from anywhere, so if you're in asheville i'm hitting your ass up lol
Second Raleigh. Lived there for a year. Growing super fast but manageable. COL still low but moving higher. People are nice, very easy to meet people because lots of tranplants. Driving distance to beach and mountains. Raleigh itself is very wooded and has lakes close. Tons of breweries
Raleigh is a cool spot, further from mountains than Charlotte but closer to beach. Worse airport, less people, less douchey. And yeah the area is growing like wildfire but if you want a true city experience steer clear, it feels small unlike Charlotte which actually feels like a city. Then again OP is from chicago so nothing will come close (maybe my favorite city in the usa)
All points I do not disagree with. Has a small city feel for sure, but bigger than many on the list
San Diego is cool. Higher COL than those other places, but lower than the big cities. You can live in North County, which is a mellow outdoorsy area, and still drive to downtown if you ever want nightlife. Lots of diverse culture and food. Good surfing, hiking, rock climbing, mountain biking etc. Baja is a short drive, the socal mountains are an hour or two away and the Sierra Nevada a few more hours for skiing, Joshua Tree and the Mojave desert are nearby too.
I used to live in Encinitas for a year - North County is great.
SLC has some of the best skiing in the world right on your doorstep (Alta/Bird, Park City, etc) and Jackson Hole can be done on the weekend. You have some of the best hiking in the world nearby (Escalante, Zion, Bryce Canyon, etc). And Vegas is reachable for a weekend trip. If you're outdoorsy, and nightlife doesn't matter much, SLC is as good as it gets. Boulder, CO is another option, but not cheap, Denver is another great option (but colder).
I love this, and you're really making me think seriously about SLC. I lived in Boulder for a year and have visited Denver more times than any other city (by choice, not for work), so I love both of those. SLC seems more my speed though, and the lack of nightlife doesnt bother me as at all.
I would recommend Richmond. Really young area, with a lot of recent grads from UVA, VT, VCU, and U of R there. Great nightlife scene that spans numerous locals only lowkey chill bars to solid clubs that are consistently a great time. People are pretty outdoorsy, a lot of good hiking and nature around the city and a lot of people live to swim, float, fish, and do just about anything on the James River. Politics are pretty middle of the road. A lot of diversity with people coming from other parts of the south as well DC and Baltimore to live there. Pretty LCOL. Surprisingly good restaurant scene, with a lot of excellent dining options that would be 2x the price in T1 cities. And most importantly for me, the city is very walkable so no matter where you are, it’s never too far to walk to a bar or club.
underrated. richmond used to be the butt of jokes for being the murder capital of the country but it's changed its image greatly. I'm from VA and richmond was always thought of as a bad place to be when compared to charlottesville (very douchey), NoVA (epitome of douchedom), VB (nothing to do outside of the beach), Norfolk (boring), but that image has meaningfully changed.
only downside to richmond is the network. so y'all know, it's VERY VERY VERY good ol boy network, and I've never been a part of that network so if I was looking for somewhere for professional reasons this would be a knock against richmond (and charleston for that matter), whereas those same issues don't exist for charlotte, raleigh, other "new growth" cities
Denver / Boulder hands down. Know people who have moved to work remote there and people who will continue to. They love it and not sure they'll ever come back. You can meet people your age and has the outdoor activities you're looking for.
Austin wasn't on your list but also worth considering.
To add on to the "out there" Brofessor ideas, consider Costa Rica for the outdoors (don't imagine you'll meet many people) and Bali (a lot of US "entrepreneurs" working there, a lot to do, extremely low cost) - if you are truly remote, don't need to travel for work at all, etc., worth considering
CA, FL, Puerto Rico, LatAm
Definitely being a homer, but I think Houston is a great place. Great food and people, 2-hour drive to Austin, great music and art scene, every major sports team besides the NHL. The humidity, traffic, and the spread of the city suck, but if you can get past that, Houston is a great diverse city that is also very affordable.
Denver would be my second choice.
If you go to one of the more remote mountain towns, be prepared to have an extremely difficult time finding housing, and accept that if you do find it you will be displacing a local. A lot of these towns are in a complete housing crisis right now with rents skyrocketing since the start of COVID. I looked into relocating to a couple of them during COVID and the feedback I got from multiple landlords was that they were receiving 100+ applications within 24 hours of posting their rental. Might need to get an airbnb for like 3-6 months to hustle for housing in person.
To get a better idea of what the housing situation/demand is like in the town you're targeting, check out the local housing facebook group and skim through the discussions.
Grew up in a popular Raleigh/Durham suburb, went to school in Chapel Hill, and have lived in Charlotte for the past 5+ years. Raleigh and Charlotte are both great places to live, especially if you're looking to escape big city life. I did my SA in NYC and decided to re recruit for Charlotte my senior year because I couldn't imagine myself living the NYC lifestyle long term. Don't want to belabor points already referenced above but will give some pros and cons of each below. TLDR: Pretty similar cities with Charlotte having more traditional "City" feel. Would choose Charlotte if focused on finance career and RDU if focused on healthcare or tech.
Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill
Pros:
- Underrated bar/restaurant scene: plenty of young people as many NC State/Chapel Hill/Duke grads are increasingly staying around after graduation with the influx of high paying jobs
- Relatively low COL: although rapidly increasing you still get way more bang for your buck
- Sports scene: loved going to basketball/football games at all the schools mentioned above + when the Hurricanes are good not much better place to watch a hockey game than PNC (went to 2006 Stanley cup final game 7 and is still my all time favorite sporting event ever and I go to Duke Carolina every year)
- Great suburbs: Cary, Holly Springs, Apex are all consistently featured on top places to live/raise a family, awesome public schools, and affluent neighborhoods
- Proximity to beach/mountain: 2 hours to Wilmington, 3 hours to Asheville
Cons
- Slow pace: reason I haven't moved back yet, while I mentioned the underrated bar scene there's still only a few places people frequent and its very spread out
- Transportation: building on last point, you'll need a car to go almost anywhere, not much public transit and traffic hasn't gotten pretty atrocious
Charlotte
Pros
- Rapid growth, real city feel: I can barely even recognize the sky line every time I look out my window. Constantly building new company HQs, restaurants, bars, and mixed use retail. Tons of high paying jobs in finance (even front office, much more than just WF), tech, healthcare, manufacturing
- Lake Norman: 25 minute drive from the city, if you can network into a friend group that has access to boats/lakefront houses your summer weekends will be top tier
- Sports: more professional vs. college focused RDU, Panthers, Hornets, Checkers (minor league hockey) games all fun despite not being very good
- Relatively low COL: slightly higher than RDU
- Proximity: 3 hours to Charleston/Savannah/Wilm, 2 hours to Asheville
Cons
- Growing pains: the same reasons you'd want to leave a big city have become problems here, increasing homelessness pop, crime, traffic, taxes, etc.
- Wealth disparity: despite city center growth, Charlotte is still a suburban/commuter city. South Park, Ballantyne, Huntersville, Davidson, Dilworth, Myers Park etc. all are extremely wealthy, everything else not so much. A lot fewer top public schools and much larger private school scene than RDU. Believe a widely referenced study ranked CLT last in economic mobility.
- Douchey: 2nd everything the thebrofessor referenced here, you get a lot of guys/gals that move from the Northeast and think they're the shit because they traded up their $2MM Manhattan studio for a $2MM mansion in South Park. I had a VP that came down from Moelis that loved showing everyone his brokerage balances lol
Happy to answer any questions on comparing the two if they make your final list.
Im just relieved I'm not the only one who gets the douche chills about charlotte
Currently in school down there and couldn't agree more on the restaurant scene. I like it a lot down here, but here are what's keeping me from committing to staying.
1. Food/Bars are as expensive or on par with what I've spent in major metros. This may be the new normal everywhere but the restaurants/bars in the Triangle aren't necessarily cheap which surprised me.
I've found that I'm spending the same amount of money down here at restaurants/bars as I do when I go back to NYC, LA, and Miami. The only places I've noticed an actual difference are at the high end places like Carbone.
I got charged $20 for a generic Margarita in Chapel Hill at a casual mexican restaurant and cocktails are consistently $15-18 in Durham and Raleigh.
2. Rent is not that much cheaper than major cities. A 1 bedroom apartment is $1800-2100 in desirable areas and for that I could be near the beach in LA or at my old apartment in WeHo on Sunset in a nice building. My friend just locked down a lease for $2,000/month in the South Bay that's a 10 minute walk to the beach and I know people paying more than that to live in a 1 BR apartment in the triangle which IMO is insane.
3. Everything closes fairly early, restaurants are closed on weird days, and the lack of nightlife.
The restaurants all close at 10 PM so if you're looking to grab a late dinner or find any option that isn't McDonald's past 10 PM you're SOL from my experience. A handful of restaurants that I frequent are closed Monday, Tuesday, or both days which I've always thought was kind of odd.
I'm not a huge club guy but enjoy places that are like Old Town Scottsdale where it's a blend of both a bar and a club with options to sneak off to more low key or divey spots. I haven't really found that out here as it seems like the options are dive bar, brewery, cocktail lounges, or trashy college bars like Shooters (biggest problem with them and others is they're 18+).
4. Weather/Lack of Seasons
3 months out of the year it's as cold or colder than the Northeast. There have been a lot of days lately where it's 50-60 degrees during the day and in the high 20's from 9 PM - 9 AM.
I also felt that we never really got a proper transition period from the summer. It went from being hot and humid to winter pretty quickly. We had one week where it was nice and sunny without being too humid, then it just went straight into winter.
5. Buying Booze is Ridiculously Expensive and Inconvenient
You can't buy liquor outside of the government owned stores which jack up the price and offer a terrible selection. These stores also close at like 9 PM and have limited availability a lot of the time. You can buy beer, wine and seltzers at the grocery store but they're restricted to sell to you after certain hours and my local Harris Teeter closes at 9 PM on weekends.
Bought a bottle of Rombauer the other day at the grocery store and it was $38 in the triangle. I went to buy a bottle as a Christmas present in Boston and it cost $22.
6. Uber/Lyft are pricey
Its $35-40 to go to RDU one way and coming back in from Glenwood in Raleigh Uber's were $175-200 when trying to come back for UberX. We waited until 4 AM and it still cost $150 one way.
7. Everything is spread out
This has some overlap with the last one, but since everything is so spread out it can feel like a hike when bouncing between areas.
Ultimately, what's frustrated me about moving down here for school is that I expected the weather to be nicer than the Northeast which to this point it hasn't and for the cost of living to be cheaper which if you're looking to buy a house it is but your day to day (restaurants, groceries, booze runs, etc.) are not necessarily that much cheaper than what you would spend in a tier 1/2 city which at this point in my life (in my mid 20's) seems crazy.
If I were in my mid 30's, looking to settle down, or had a family I would give the area a hard look because it is a great place to raise a family but since I'm not staying in the area is something that isn't particularly appealing to me.
9. Rhodesia
Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but Salt Lake City may be a good fit. Very outdoorsy city that’s much closer to the major ski resorts than Denver combined with a lower cost of living. Reputation of a city that’s basically run by Mormons is somewhat outdated, although that population is obviously still over represented.
I have a buddy who lives there, and he describes it as “what everyone actually thinks Denver is for 1/2 the price”.
Go Orange County if you don’t mind the heat. Perhaps laguna beach to avoid the pricks living in Newport Beach.
The real question is which city is the most prestigious?
Posters above had Reno dialed. If you like that and you like SLC or Bend, two adds would be Boise and Spokane. Boise much hipper and more like a less-Mormon SLC and Spokane is cheap AF but within weekend striking distance of some of the best scenery around.
a few other cool ones Davis, CA; Sacramento; Portland; Missoula; and honestly, LA. I love LA no matter what anybody is into they can find it in spades (except maybe NY status type of stuff)
I've been living in Denver for a few months now and love it. I would avoid moving to Boulder as some have suggested here as an option. It's closer to the mountains than Denver, but it's a college town. You will be surrounded by 18-22 year olds most of the year. Denver is much better for someone in mid-late 20's. Definitely not LCOL though.
Recommend looking at some of the new planned communities propping up in South Carolina.
Kiawah Island comes to mind as a great one albeit older, I remember seeing a few new ones but can’t remember specific names.
If you're big on mountains I'd search somewhere along the Rockies. If Canada is an option the BC/Alberta border is sounds like it'll check all your boxes, granted most cities are on the smaller side (check out Powder Highway).
Bozeman, Whitefish, SLC, Reno, and Boulder are all solid choices
San diego has some middle class areas, and is honestly has the best weather in the country (except maybe hawaii)
Austin, TX, Laguna Beach, Boise
I’d go 2, 6, 1, 5 out of the options provided. Nothing else is realistic, though I do like some of the places
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