Best Response

I've explained this a million times but debt doesn't lower your WACC. The required return on the debt is lower than equity yes, but the increased leverage makes the equity riskier and therefore raises the required return on equity to exactly offset. WACC stays exactly the same. Is this why our financial system is overlevered? Because armies of morons who should probably know better actually think more and more debt makes a business less risky (lowers WACC)? Geeez.

Reasons for debt are the tax shield, levering returns to equity and not wanting to give up ownership interest. WACC has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 
jhoratio:
I've explained this a million times but debt doesn't lower your WACC. The required return on the debt is lower than equity yes, but the increased leverage makes the equity riskier and therefore raises the required return on equity to exactly offset. WACC stays exactly the same. Is this why our financial system is overlevered? Because armies of morons who should probably know better actually think more and more debt makes a business less risky (lowers WACC)? Geeez.

Reasons for debt are the tax shield, levering returns to equity and not wanting to give up ownership interest. WACC has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Where do you get this reasoning from - the Modigliani-Miller theorem? Do you realize that you violate the theorem's assumptions when claiming one reason for debt is tax shields?

Not to mention, I'm pretty sure empirical evidence disagrees. Build a table for how an actual company's WACC would vary using various D/E ratios if you wish to see for yourself.

 

i think the contradiction here is people are assuming the cost of debt is always lower than the cost of equity. in fact, it is not. the cost of debt graph is parabolic-- meaning after a certain point, you are considered over-leveraged [at extremely high-risk of bankruptcy] and your cost of debt is very high.

the idea of capital structure management is that there is an IDEAL level of debt a company should hold in order to minimize their wacc. when they have less debt than the ideal, then more lowers the wacc (this is what everyone seems to be saying). what jhoratio points out is that when you have MORE debt than the ideal, less debt needs to be held in order to lower wacc.

the ideal amount of debt is determined by the volatility of your cash flows. that's why pharmas and techs tend to be no to low debt companies-- their earnings depend on striking gold from the next big thing which is too volatile of a cashflow to pay off debtors in the long run.

 

You are not correct, monkeyman. WACC is an opportunity cost. An opportunity cost is the return on the next best thing you could do with your assets. The return on the next best thing is not influenced in the slightest by how much debt some other company has. The opportunity cost for employing assets in a certain enterprise has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO with the capital structure.

 

OP, you are absolutely correct, these are the answers I would give in an interview. Possibly would add that an equity raising has higher fixed transaction costs than debt raisings.

I wouldn't mention this, but there is also the pecking order theory: managers would rather go for debt than more equity, because they have more discretion about it. An equity raising requires a shareholder vote, with debt they only need board approval.

Also - the signaling theory. Managers load up on debt to indicate they run a lean shop with little discretionary cash flow to squander.

 

Jhoratio - what if a company has 99% of debt and 1% of equity? How would their WACC compare with a 30% / 70% company? And assume that they're putting on this debt step-by-step; i.e. doing convert and subordinated offerings back-to-back.

How will that offsetting mechanism you've explained adjust to get us to the same WACC? Wouldn't a higher debt load increase the Rd over time?

Thanks.

 

Did you just copy that out of your corpfin textbook?

Aside from the EMH assumption of M-M, it also stipulates the absence of taxes. You can try really hard but you will never quite convince me that taxes don't exist.

 
BanditPandit:
Because if you e-quit you can fight online another day. If you quit on debt you'll get your ass taken to jail.

I don't think Bankruptcy courts have the power to sentence people to jail

 
BanditPandit:
Because if you e-quit you can fight online another day. If you quit on debt you'll get your ass taken to jail.

This isn't a funny joke. I'm assuming it's a joke as no one is this retarded. Please tell me no one is this stupid!

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 

Gotta pull your head out of the theory my man! Ask yourself this question - why does one make an equity investment in a corporation(hint- not out of the kindness of his heart)? Second, ask yourself why the equity investor, who holds a residual claim on the business that is subordinated to the debt holder, would require a higher rate of return on his investment (i.e. the business' cost of capital)

 
boxset:

Gotta pull your head out of the theory my man! Ask yourself this question - why does one make an equity investment in a corporation(hint- not out of the kindness of his heart)? Second, ask yourself why the equity investor, who holds a residual claim on the business that is subordinated to the debt holder, would require a higher rate of return on his investment (i.e. the business' cost of capital)

I get this from the investor's perspective, but the payments aren't mandatory. Cost of debt (assume it to be = interest rate) has to be paid, but if a stock goes sideways (or even if it gains w/ no dividends), what's the bottom line payout that's so expensive compared to debt/interest expense?

 

Bear in mind as well that "the corporation" is equity ie the board and management represent the interests of equity. So the question is really why does equity want to use debt, rather than more of their own equity.

Think about where the word "leverage" comes from. It's about equity owners wanting to use debt, because debt "levers" their returns higher. That is, the corporation/equity can use debt funding to fund growth/deals that could make stellar returns, but debt's share of those returns is capped at the interest rate, while equity gets all the upside.

That also means that, if a project is more risky than usual, equity doesn't have to put more of their capital at risk. They use debt and debt takes the risk, but with debt's returns on that risk capped at the interest rate.

Equity may just not have the funds to fund growth and existing equity holders don't want to have their ownership diluted by issuing more equity.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 
SSits:

Bear in mind as well that "the corporation" is equity ie the board and management represent the interests of equity. So the question is really why does equity want to use debt, rather than more of their own equity.

Think about where the word "leverage" comes from. It's about equity owners wanting to use debt, because debt "levers" their returns higher. That is, the corporation/equity can use debt funding to fund growth/deals that could make stellar returns, but debt's share of those returns is capped at the interest rate, while equity gets all the upside.

That also means that, if a project is more risky than usual, equity doesn't have to put more of their capital at risk. They use debt and debt takes the risk, but with debt's returns on that risk capped at the interest rate.

Equity may just not have the funds to fund growth and existing equity holders don't want to have their ownership diluted by issuing more equity.

This is really close to what I was looking for. Pushing a little to make sure I get it, let's think of accepting a positive NPV project as raising the asset beta (asset return). Because debt beta (cost) stays constant, we expect a greater return for equity. That makes sense. Does issuing more equity, beyond control issues from dilution, materially change this greater return, even though the underlying assets haven't changed?

 

Take it to the extreme to understand the basics of the concept: my company has a market cap of $1 billion. I have a project that I think will net me $100 billion, but the project will cost me $500 million to earn the $100 billion. So, I can sell $500 million worth of shares and my share of the $100 billion will be a lot less because I sold the upside to other investors or I can borrow $500 million and keep almost all of the upside for myself.

 

Everyone pretty much went into detail about why or why not debt is usually cheaper (assuming no financial distress). But I would add that Debt can be quicker and more discrete in raising capital. i.e. a company could issue 144A Debt securities on the private market.

Fear is the greatest motivator. Motivation is what it takes to find profit.
 

I wouldn't get too caught up in the theory. I have worked on a ton of deals where the idea is its always better to play with the house's money. You can get asymetric payouts. You put in $1 equity and get $9 debt. Your downside is $1. Your upside is way bigger. You sell the $10 company for 5x what you paid years later and collect $50 - 9 = $41. You make 41x your money instead of 5x. (5x is all equity financing. You put in $1, get $9 other equity, and own 10% of company. When you sell for $50 you get 10%, or $5.

 

Best answer was already stated about time, cost, hassle for 2ndary ipo vs just issuing debt at these cheap ass rates. Not to mentioned if you notice a lot of these companies are issuing debt to buyback stocks because they can take abit more leverage pay off older debt with 5-6% interest rates and return "value" to shareholders. Keep interest coverage ratio the same but bump up ur stock price RSU and stock option for vest date.

 

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I was taught that the human brain was the crowning glory of evolution so far, but I think it's a very poor scheme for survival.
 

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"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 

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