Would You Have Done Military?

Totally hear you. I did 1 year military rotc. Ultimately decided against it but it's still very appealing.

Part of me wishes I had at least explored some of the options. My high school had a pretty rigid military component to it which completely turned me off of the military as a post-hs option.

If they would have put in some weapons and explosives training into the curriculum it would have been a whole different story. When I'm bored I'll tune into some firefights or A10 runs on youtube and it makes me envy the adrenaline rush, camaraderie, and brotherhood of those out there. That said, I know people who joined and wish they would have just gone to school. Grass is always greener.

I was enlisted Army before college. If I had to do it over again I'd go in as an officer after college, but still had a solid experience. Headed to a top b-school in the fall anyways and will prob recruit for banking.

Don't romanticize it though. It's not like the commercial.

I attempted to gain an officer commission several times, both after college and even in the middle of my career (I applied for the reserves). I had my heart set on Navy intelligence, but I did also diversify my application to other branches of service. I had a good experience going through the process, and felt the NCOs who took care of my case really did try to help me get through as best they could, and the officers who interviewed me were incredibly helpful and forthcoming about both the opportunities and sacrifices. The MIL was kind enough to fly me out to Guam for MEPS since I was Asia-based.

I was ultimately unsuccessful due to a number of health issues (hypothyroidism, astigmatism), but I admire that route and wanted very much to serve. My father was an officer in the Israeli military, and I do believe the time in uniform shapes you in a way nothing else does. But then again, that's my view from the outside having never had the opportunity to serve.

I would suggest you take a broad look at the range of opportunities. I was impressed with the optionality. There are so many skillsets and careerpaths. All of the branches have intelligence divisions which would build civilian-applicable skillsets. I previously worked for a former marine captain who was a modeling genius, and who learned his skills as a finance and planning officer. Both Navy and AF have healthcare career paths and cybersecurity paths and those are certainly civilian-applicable. I went to b-school with former fighter pilots, marine captains and nuclear submarine pilots, if that's more your thing.

If you're on the fence between a civilian career or the MIL you can also consider the reserves. If you're young and without a family that makes it easier in a sense because you're not sacrificing family time to serve. The MIL will train you, and then you serve in a somewhat more flexible way.

Then there's leadership and personal development. And as an officer, you get to lead and be in the service of the team and there are surely lessons in that process. In b-school we talked about 'leadership' all the time, but how many of us knew what it really meant to lead? As an analyst you're not leading. As an associate you're not leading. But as a military officer you probably will be.

My friends who joined from High School have all expressed regret in joining. For the most part, they're all stuck at bases in random parts of the states doing menial jobs. They're glad to be getting a free education afterwards, though.

I agree with the Marine above. I'm at training to be an Army infantry officer (though we are frozen), and I love it.

I was on the IB route and decided to go into the Army because of some cool dudes I met at the B school during undergrad.

My thought process was that I can always go into finance after the Army, but it's a tougher road vice versa. And the Army paid for college. Like badmonkey5 said, don't romanticize it. It's not like the commercials, and even the propaganda pieces put out by the 75th Ranger RGT aren't as cool as they seem. There's a whole lot of waiting, wasted time, and fuckery. And I have just begun.

And no hit on my fellow officers, but most of them did not come from the same educational background. It is an intellectually disparate group of men (and now women) in the infantry.

If you're seriously considering it, feel free to PM me. Go the Army or Air Force route if you don't want the hand me downs they use in the Marine Corps.

I would have loved to, but four years just seems too long. There are actually a good chunk of international analysts that have served in the South Korean, Israeli and Singaporean army for 2-3 years after HS and before college - this is probably the best time to do it because you can look forward to 4 years of college afterwards. Of course, it was mandatory service for them.

I was also surprised because I originally thought they would just train in support/combat support roles but many have actually served in straight up infantry grunt roles or armor/artillery.

Anecdotally they're pretty much always top analysts, and seemed to have a leg up recruiting for PE.

It was absolutely worth it, plus after dealing with the bureaucracy and competitive atmosphere in prestigious units, you should be more than prepared for the Corporate world. I would still read on your spare time, and keep your mind intellectually stimulated while you’re in. Do your time, dont burn bridges, take care of your people, and get out.

Is there a way for US citizens to do 1-2 yrs military?

As far as I'm concerned, offensive wars are pointless unless you plan to do some sort of colonization after.

Now that colonization has a bad rap. The US just attacks terrorist groups and then leaves the middle east with power vacuums because they don't want to be seen as colonizers.

Well I don't think South Korea or Japan are complaining about the US colonizing them after their wars.

debate joining the military every day :D

I would be open for a mandatory 1-2 years of military training.

It's not for everyone. I don't like to just have to obey orders blindly. The idea of some guy telling me to go move a pile of dirt from one end of the base to the other end and back again is not super appealing. It's not all blaze of glory and let's blow shit up. A friend of mine was shot and is paralyzed from the neck down. Another one was commanding 90 man in Afghanistan and he told me his job consisted of being a psychologist for all the fucked up people that were enrolled - on top of being shot at on a daily basis.

I get that some parts are good - some of the guys who were military in my MBA were some of my best mates there. But again not for me.

I think its makes sense for many people to join the military. However, it would not be good fit for me, as I would not trust the government to use war as a last resort to resolve a conflict.

Went to a military high school so I flirted with the idea for years when I was younger. A high school classmate of mine actually went into the Recon Marines after graduation. He was the scariest, deepest voice mf'er I ever met and our God-fearing middle linebacker.

He just got out maybe a year ago and I think he saw or did some serious shit as he's now in SE Asia preaching the word of God and helping women escape prostitution. Really proud of him, but he completely changed after the military, so that can be a good or bad thing for anyone who joins.

I really flirted with the idea of Special Forces (go big or go home right?) after seeing Lone Survivor when it came out, then reading the book, and then reading more SEAL books. THEN did a ton of research on BUD/s, indoc, etc and said I would do it after college. Obviously money, women, drugs, and whatever other vice entered my life during college and I lost the drive, but truthfully I don't know if I could have done it.

Much respect to all the service members out there.

I did 4 years. Think serving is good experience for anybody.

They talk about this on one of the Jocko podcasts. Serving doesn't have to be the military -- could be peace corps, teaching, whatever.

I have mixed views. If you require it, then you'll get a lot of bad apples who don't want to be there and have bad attitudes.

I would we overwhelmed by all the smelly socks.

I commission this May into my component of choice, Army Reserve. I chose to not go active as I really wanted to start my civilian career. So now I have a FT offer and a weekend warrior gig as an Ordnance Officer. In my opinion, it’s the best route to go. No debt, paid to go to school, good hobby and character building, plus you get to have some fun experiences and meet some fascinating individuals.

Many very interesting points. Thanks to all for sharing and to the OP for posting.

Personally - I briefly thought about it when in high school, but knew I just wasn't cut out for it. I was lucky to grow up where I did and would have never needed it financially (and that is, frankly, luck of the draw). But I hated the scope of being yelled at all the time, doing all kinds of things I didn't want to, and to follow orders from some random dude.

Then 9/11 happened and I thought about it a bit harder as a potential way to serve my country. In my school and in other places, I personally saw and heard how ugly things got with regards to race/religion in the US and how all of the sudden large groups of people weren't considered "American" and that still continues to this day.

Then we invaded Iraq for some reason I still don't understand. There are lots of bad bad guys out there in the world, Saddam was just one of them, but he hated Al-Qaeda as much as we do, and they have oil I guess. We killed that bastard Bin Ladin in 2011 (under Obama in case anyone forgets - and that is not to give him any special credit), and yet we are only leaving Afghanistan now. Once again, there are lots of countries that are war torn, that house/support bad people that may or may not be a threat to our daily way of life (I would argue that there are many other threats, look at the world now, but that's for another thread).

All of this really turned me off of service, personally. Frankly, I (and many others) could do a lot to serve my country and community at home by working with all kinds of people and societies to make them better and safer places.

This is why in so many threads when people ask about "what to do" to find meaning/career change etc etc, I suggest volunteering. It directly impacts your community which is in your home country and often makes not only you feel good, but you develop bonds with others in your community who may be different from you in a million ways, all while working to do your part.

To those who have served and still serve, thank you for your service. It wasn't for me, and I'm cool with that.

OP - there probably is no wrong path.

Good Luck

I retired after 30+ years in 2019. Needless to say I enjoyed my time in the Navy! Made many life long friends and memories during my time and have seen many people I served with leverage their military service into civilian career success. Later in my career, I was a community chief where I advised soon to be college graduates on applying for commissioning programs and advantage of Navy service. I used to say, "a tour or a lifetime" The initial enlistment or obligation for a commission is usually 4 years. Most everyone will benefit civ careerwise from their 4 years of experience. In my experience, where it negatively impact a civ career is within 4 to 10 year range of active duty, where the civ employment space does not provide much more reward than with 4 years of service. Of course life happens and people who planned on staying for a 20 yr career have life events (marriage, aging parents, tired of moving, etc). Some transition with no issue, but others have trouble transitioning to the civ world without a slip in pay and/or level of responsibility.

‘Done’ is the incorrect verb. It is ‘serve’ in the military.

If I could go back, I think I would have done ROTC. Whole mom's side of the family (aside from her) is/was Air Force/Army and were rose to LT Colonel/Colonel and I was oldest male. None of the cousins ended up going in below me either so part of me regrets breaking the streak. Had a buddy to ROTC NYU -> served overseas -> Top Business School. Kid is about to clean up.

A number of years ago, the Head of the Air Force ROTC from my college tried to recruit me in the NH Liquor store (I was late into Junior year/in party mode and military was last thing on my mind by then). Ironically he was the one who introduced me to Tito's - as he recommended it over Goose. Now, it is the only vodka I drink. Life is funny sometimes.

I still believe if I found myself out of work today, then the military would be best option for me (Given ongoing pandemic). Provides structure and discipline, is well respected, and sets you up for great opportunities both within and in civilian life.

There are a ton of jobs across the various branches so to say you want to "join the military" is a bit like saying you want to "work in finance" without specifying whether that means going into IB, working in wealth management, corporate FP&A, or being a branch manager of a regional bank. I'd first give some thought to whether you want to be in a combat role vs. a supporting role like intel, logistics, finance, operations, etc.

Assuming you want to do "cool guy shit" like a lot of younger guys exploring military service (correct me if I'm wrong), make sure you really understand what those MOS actually entail. Yes, SF, Rangers, SEALS, PJ, Force Recon all look and sound cool on Youtube, but in order to make it through the grueling selection processes and subsequent qualification courses, it takes a special kind of motivation that transcends the cursory fascination a lot of 18-24 year olds typically have. All this might be a moot point if you're not interested in going the spec ops route, but I will say that the "big Army" experience is pretty different in terms of caliber of talent, motivation, resources, training, everything. And I would assume someone like you would be more inclined towards the former.

Finally, keep in mind that a lot of people enlist for various reasons. A LOT of those folks are doing it for pragmatic, not patriotic reasons. Not everyone is trying to die for the red, white, and blue. Many come from underprivileged backgrounds and are simply there to get their GI bill, learn some useful skills, and translate those into the private sector. Manage your expectations of people accordingly.

Source: Dozens of friends and relatives from every branch.

If I could do things over I think I would have tried to do so. My family is well connected in the defense related politics and military space, so finding a career afterward in one of those areas would have been less difficult for me. I do wish I could have served my country in some way, and intend to find my own way to do so as doors open down the road. My friends who served laugh when I say I wish I did it because they just sat around in the desert for years, according to them. But they do have some absolutely ridiculous stories.

Here's the real question of debate:

Would you guys rather be Army or Navy? (Marines included in Army for this because land soldiers)

Im taking Army 10 days out of 10. Could not imagine being on a boat for months at a time, even though you technically stop at ports "around the world".

I was pretty close to enlisting into the Army my Senior year of high-school but my parents told me they would kill me before ISIS would. I ended up doing ROTC as a consolation. In hindsight, I don't think I would have gone through with it. More so, because it would not feel rewarding either doing monotonous work within reserves or going to Iraq/Afghanistan in the worst case.

I will say that the military is great for someone with no intrinsic discipline. Besides that I don't think me joining the army would have provided value.

If you had asked me this question when I was in college or in my analyst days, I would have said no fucking way. Now I don't specifically regret not doing it, but I can definitely see the appeal as I've grown older. In particular I like 3 things that I would have wanted for myself from military service:

1. Military people have a level of discipline that is hard to re-create for oneself as a pure civilian. Being in a highly structured environment early on like that will give you a lot of good habits (discipline, responsibility, duty, service, loyalty) that will carry over to other domains in your life going forward. I have definitely seen this in colleagues who are ex-military, even if they don't come off as military people now.

2. Service gives you a certain level of skin in the game that makes you a more engaged member of civilization and gives you a more credible standing point from which to critique society at large. You're not exclusively a do-nothing private citizen (even if that's what you become afterwards), you have at least demonstrated a commitment that you are invested in our civil society and your critique should be taken seriously. It's easy to critique something, but few people make the effort to build it up or even participate in it, so that symmetry should be taken more credibly.

3. There's something ancient and perennial about being a soldier for a time while you're a young man; being a soldier is a very human experience. I know for certain that it's something many of the men in my line did for generations and that young men in Babylon, Rome, China, Macedonia, etc. served as soldiers when they were young men. Regardless of their social class, their language, religion, culture, they were for a time in some version of the same construct that you find yourself in at that moment. In a world where it's hard to forecast 5 year stretches into the future, when you have no idea what society let alone the job market will look like, the connection with an ancient profession roots one firmly in the arc of history, which I think would be incredibly comforting.

All that said, the biggest drawback for me is the time commitment. If you are young, ambitious, and are already focused on what you hope to accomplish, foregoing 4 years of what will ultimately become your craft is a YUGE expense. That time in your early 20s can really have profound compounding effects if you are smart and know how to play it right, so it's tough to trade in that dense hyper-time in exchange for potentially working a low wage military admin job at a base somewhere if that's how the draw goes (obviously things are different in wartime vs peacetime).

4 years is a huge commitment, but if there had been a way to do 12-24 months of service instead like in Singapore/Korea/Israel, I think a TON of people would really benefit tremendously from that. I know I would have.

I had the papers ready to sign when I was 19 to head to the Army with an option 40 Contract (75th Ranger assessment and selection pipeline). Talked myself out of it after my mom flipped out telling her what I wanted to do. To this day one of my biggest regrets not taking the plunge and serving the country.

I'm biased, but I'd say go for it. Do while you're young. Even if you don't want a career in the military, the experience is only 4-5 years and you'll gain unique perspective 90% of the rest of the county doesn't have.

I was a Lieutenant before I went to university and for the last year or so before I left I was the acting OC of my unit, with about 100 men reporting to me. It was cool because I probably will never have that many people report to me again, but also it was asinine, boring, and I cannot say I learnt that much from the experience I could not have learnt in a more interesting setting.

People always talk about discipline, but frankly you'll learn more discipline in your first year as an Analyst. You'll actually become very good at large scale event organisation, but that's not a very important skill to have unless you're going to be an events organiser. As for all the weapons training and squad tactics... not sure how you think that will ever be useful in real life.

The actual biggest thing I found was useful was just working with a lot of pretty dumb and difficult people. You learn to adapt quickly. Finance has a lot fewer dumb people, but difficult psychos are everywhere and you have to adapt and endure.