WSJ - Tie Bank Bonuses to Executive Women Hires, U.K. Government Review Proposes

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Rank: King Kong | banana points 1,550

Saw this in the news today...

Bank bosses should hire more senior women if they want their bonuses, says Government-appointed report

Virgin Money boss calls for executive pay to come with a requirement to improve representation of women in top financial roles


Bank bosses should have their bonuses tied to increasing the number of senior women in their companies, according to a report commissioned by the Treasury.
As part of an effort to address the gender imbalance in the financial world, companies should also publish how many men and women they employ and appoint an executive for diversity, said the report by Jayne-Anne Gadhia, the chief executive of Virgin Money.

"It should be a wake-up call to everyone in financial services that fewer women progress to senior levels than in any other industry in the UK," said Ms Gadhia, who was asked in July to explore the issue.
"There are many views as to why that might be. Motherhood, remuneration, the 'old boys' network' are all mentioned, but only scratch the surface of an issue that has been hidden for too long."

Discuss

The recommendations will be reviewed by Harriett Baldwin, the economic secretary to the Treasury, and a panel of senior businesswomen comprising Goldman Sachs partner Michelle Pinggera, HSBC executive Francesca McDonagh, Hedge Fund Standards Board chairman Dame Amelia Fawcett and JP Morgan's Stephanie Flanders. More detailed recommendations will be made next year.
The report comes a week after Lord Mervyn Davies published his final conclusion on efforts to bring more women onto the boards of large British companies. Since his first report in 2011, all FTSE 100 companies have hired at least one female director, pushing the overall representation of women directors from 12.5pc to more than 26pc.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/ba...
http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-diversity-plan-pay...
https://next.ft.com/content/0ece8504-82df-11e5-a01...

Comments (91)

Nov 4, 2015

We had a game in my class at school, which was to guess the ethnic names that would come up in the maths exams.

I think we need to change this to, guess the name of the new position created. I can see them adding Chief Diversity Officers etc.

Nov 4, 2015

Will they cut bonuses down to 77c on the dollar?

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Nov 4, 2015

If nothing else, when you think our government is overbearing, it's nice to know that there are always first world governments that are worse.

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Nov 4, 2015

Yeah, I was just in London and holy shit I am glad I don't live in Europe. Everything is expensive, taxes are high and the median wage is lower than my state.

It really made me appreciate being an American.

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Nov 4, 2015

What happened to "the best candidate gets the job"?

I swear feminism is the new ebola.

You know you've been working too hard when you stop dreaming about bottles of champagne and hordes of naked women, and start dreaming about conditional formatting and circular references.

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Nov 6, 2015
Zweihander:

<

p>What happened to "the best candidate gets the job"?

Some people consider this phrase to be a "micro aggression" (whatever the fuck that means) now, sorry brah.

Nov 4, 2015

"said the report by Jayne-Anne Gadhia, the chief executive of Virgin Money."

Nov 4, 2015

Sounds like something someone from EY would say.

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Nov 5, 2015

A guy I know at EY has the title of regional director of inclusivity and diversity...I really want to know what he does on a daily basis.

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Nov 4, 2015

Well, it's sensationalist, but true. Women are really lacking at the higher levels and it's downright depressing for me, a woman working in finance. Nothing like continually struggling against the stream, while making sure you aren't fat or ugly (FO only for the most part), or that people won't consider you a bad mother because you work crazy hours, or that people like your husband (as he is a reflection of you), or hoping that your husband will support your career and not feel emasculated, or that you are asked in interviews if you've got anyone to take care of at home, or the fact that as a woman you get hugged a lot, or that you can't really compliment a man because he will think you're hitting on him, or the fact that people confuse you with the receptionist, or the fact that sometimes you really want to join in the office donut parties but you just can't goshdarnit because all the admins are going and you can't afford the calories and you don't want people to get a visual image of you eating fatty pastries with receptionists. Or the fact that the trophy wives slightly resent you and are suspicious of you as you spend more time with their husband than they do. Or the fact that you have seen more men grabbing their balls than anywhere else and it's kind of funny until they touch you or use your pen. And for what? To never get into a senior position?

But as I say to myself, "What else would I do that would pay as well and be as interesting?"

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

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Best Response
Nov 4, 2015
tropos:

Well, it's sensationalist, but true. Women are really lacking at the higher levels and it's downright depressing for me, a woman working in finance. Nothing like continually struggling against the stream, while making sure you aren't fat or ugly (FO only for the most part), or that people won't consider you a bad mother because you work crazy hours, or that people like your husband (as he is a reflection of you), or hoping that your husband will support your career and not feel emasculated, or that you are asked in interviews if you've got anyone to take care of at home, or the fact that as a woman you get hugged a lot, or that you can't really compliment a man because he will think you're hitting on him, or the fact that people confuse you with the receptionist, or the fact that sometimes you really want to join in the office donut parties but you just can't goshdarnit because all the admins are going and you can't afford the calories and you don't want people to get a visual image of you eating fatty pastries with receptionists. Or the fact that the trophy wives slightly resent you and are suspicious of you as you spend more time with their husband than they do. Or the fact that you have seen more men grabbing their balls than anywhere else and it's kind of funny until they touch you or use your pen. And for what? To never get into a senior position?

But as I say to myself, "What else would I do that would pay as well and be as interesting?"

As many on this site have probably seen from the Republican Debate Discussion thread, I am a strong liberal and advocate of women's rights. I use scientific data to come to logical conclusions that are based on reality.

The entirety of the scientifically substantive data I have seen shows that in 2015, women are overwhelmingly given equal opportunity to men. On a relative basis, women are paid less and do not progress to higher levels for reasons beyond misogyny and bias (the glass-ceiling effect). There is a much greater percentage of the male population who are willing to do what it takes in life to get to those higher levels, relative to the female population. Whether women like it or not, they are biologically hardwired (significantly more-so than men) to pursue other activities at certain stages of their life (children, ect.). Feminists can kick-and-scream about this all they like, but all of their kicking and screaming will not change biological reality.

There are plenty of women (from an absolute perspective) who are motivated to do what it takes to reach these higher levels. I remember seeing plenty of CFOs on Wall Street who are/were women, including women in C-suite positions at companies like Apple, Google and some high-profile startups.

This kind of extremist feminism is a fucking scourge to society and is not anchored to reality. I put these fools in the same category as the majority of Jesus-loving Republicans.

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Nov 4, 2015

Well said. Glad someone has time to fight the good fight against the femnazi's.

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Nov 4, 2015

I almost couldn't read this psuedo-scientific BS. Let's take it apart- shall we?

" I use scientific data to come to logical conclusions that are based on reality." - So you imply that your reality is correct while other people's realities are wrong? Heh.

"Whether women like it or not, they are biologically hardwired (significantly more-so than men) to pursue other activities at certain stages of their life (children, ect.). Feminists can kick-and-scream about this all they like, but all of their kicking and screaming will not change biological reality." Well, this sounds super patronizing. Are men hardwired to be patronizing?

"There are plenty of women (from an absolute perspective) who are motivated to do what it takes to reach these higher levels. I remember seeing plenty of CFOs on Wall Street who are/were women, including women in C-suite positions at companies like Apple, Google and some high-profile startups." Oh, CFOs? What about CEOs? All your examples are in the tech sector and not in the financial sector btw.

"This kind of extremist feminism is a fucking scourge to society and is not anchored to reality. I put these fools in the same category as the majority of Jesus-loving Republicans." Oh look, there's me not being tithed to reality. Glad I had a guy tell me I was being unrealistic. I bet not one woman would tell me otherwise!

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

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Nov 6, 2015

Best WSO post I've seen in months.

Nov 4, 2015

I hope you are kidding else you are simply fucking retarded..
99% of the problems you list are in your mind.. Nobody cares whether you eat pastries with the admins or not.. Also, I hope you get your purple heart soon because you get hugged.. Oh, and it's not like men have to ever deal with their colleagues' SO's suspicions...

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Nov 4, 2015

I'm retarded? That's the best you've got?

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

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Nov 4, 2015

lel the worst thing u can open with when trying to convey an opinion to a female is "are u retarded/crazy". They just see red after that.

You speak in in varying levels of verbosity.You often adopt the typing quirks of others as you find it boring to settle on styles.

Nov 4, 2015

Half of the things you listed are more an indictment of your paranoia and insecurity than actual valid complaints. Being hugged a lot and eating donuts are your major preoccupations? Interesting. Why do you emotionally invest in what trophy wives supposedly think? Also, can I ask if you were not aware that you were entering a predominantly male-dominated career (finance), replete with ball-grabbing and awkward female-male dynamics? Perhaps the energy you waste on your preoccupations is at least as much of a contributing factor to the issue of senior promotion, than actual workplace bias against females?

Nov 4, 2015

These aren't my major preoccupations. I wouldn't say they were preoccupations at all. They are merely there.

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

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Nov 4, 2015
iggs99988:

Half of the things you listed are more an indictment of your paranoia and insecurity than actual valid complaints. Being hugged a lot and eating donuts are your major preoccupations? Interesting. Why do you emotionally invest in what trophy wives supposedly think? Also, can I ask if you were not aware that you were entering a predominantly male-dominated career (finance), replete with ball-grabbing and awkward female-male dynamics? Perhaps the energy you waste on your preoccupations is at least as much of a contributing factor to the issue of senior promotion, than actual workplace bias against females?

Not to mention that in any profession with a high average IQ, a lot of the grunt level dudes are gonna be freakin weird. Even more so in places like Wall Street and Silicon Valley where some level of controlled eccentricity can actually be helpful for personal branding.

Nov 4, 2015
tropos:

<

p>Well, it's sensationalist, but true. Women are really lacking at the higher levels and it's downright depressing for me, a woman working in finance. Nothing like continually struggling against the stream, while making sure you aren't fat or ugly

To be fair that's not just a female problem. There's a couple of old discussions on this forum to the effect that its important not to be fat because fat people don't generally get promoted to mid tier or higher.

Thing is, do you really think an arbitrary quota is going to fix those attitudes?

Nov 4, 2015
tropos:

Well, it's sensationalist, but true. Women are really lacking at the higher levels and it's downright depressing for me, a woman working in finance. Nothing like continually struggling against the stream, while making sure you aren't fat or ugly (FO only for the most part), or that people won't consider you a bad mother because you work crazy hours, or that people like your husband (as he is a reflection of you), or hoping that your husband will support your career and not feel emasculated, or that you are asked in interviews if you've got anyone to take care of at home, or the fact that as a woman you get hugged a lot, or that you can't really compliment a man because he will think you're hitting on him, or the fact that people confuse you with the receptionist, or the fact that sometimes you really want to join in the office donut parties but you just can't goshdarnit because all the admins are going and you can't afford the calories and you don't want people to get a visual image of you eating fatty pastries with receptionists. Or the fact that the trophy wives slightly resent you and are suspicious of you as you spend more time with their husband than they do. Or the fact that you have seen more men grabbing their balls than anywhere else and it's kind of funny until they touch you or use your pen. And for what? To never get into a senior position?

But as I say to myself, "What else would I do that would pay as well and be as interesting?"

Oh for the love of god.

  1. Not being fat or ugly is solid life, and certainly health, advice for either gender.
  2. If you don't spend any time with your kids, you probably are a bad mother. Just like if you don't spend any time with your kids as a man, you probably are a bad father. This isn't gender specific either.
  3. Wives, likewise, are also a reflection of their husbands. Third time in a row - not gender specific.
  4. If your husband does not support your career or feels like "less of a man" then you picked a shitty husband. That's on you.
  5. As a woman you get hugged a lot? By whom? No guy is going around hugging women in the office because they are horrified of a sexual harassment lawsuit. If it's by other women, maybe you should have more of an executive presence.
  6. Likewise, guys aren't going around complimenting women for the same reason. For the forth time, NOT GENDER SPECIFIC.
  7. Again, if people are confusing you with the receptionist, upgrade your attire and upgrade your executive presence. It's fairly obvious who the receptionist is and who the executive is, even if they are the same gender.
  8. You really put that much thought into a donut? Either eat it or don't eat it. Christ.
  9. "Trophy wives" resent you? Give me a break.

From what I can see here, if you aren't getting promoted, it is because you're incredibly whiny, childish, and enjoy playing the victim.

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Nov 4, 2015

+1

Nov 5, 2015

Well said....

Nov 4, 2015
CRE:

6. Likewise, guys aren't going around complimenting women for the same reason. For the forth time, NOT GENDER SPECIFIC.

+1 'agree with the entire comment but this one is particularly true..

'overheard some women colleagues discussing how guys in general do not seem to notice their different haircuts or different shades of hair colors... If only they knew that we notice those things (most of them) but we can't even fake acknowledge the change for fear of being taken as hitting on them...

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Nov 6, 2015
tropos:

Well, it's sensationalist, but true. Women are really lacking at the higher levels and it's downright depressing for me, a woman working in finance. Nothing like continually struggling against the stream, while making sure you aren't fat or ugly (FO only for the most part), or that people won't consider you a bad mother because you work crazy hours, or that people like your husband (as he is a reflection of you), or hoping that your husband will support your career and not feel emasculated, or that you are asked in interviews if you've got anyone to take care of at home, or the fact that as a woman you get hugged a lot, or that you can't really compliment a man because he will think you're hitting on him, or the fact that people confuse you with the receptionist, or the fact that sometimes you really want to join in the office donut parties but you just can't goshdarnit because all the admins are going and you can't afford the calories and you don't want people to get a visual image of you eating fatty pastries with receptionists. Or the fact that the trophy wives slightly resent you and are suspicious of you as you spend more time with their husband than they do. Or the fact that you have seen more men grabbing their balls than anywhere else and it's kind of funny until they touch you or use your pen. And for what? To never get into a senior position?

But as I say to myself, "What else would I do that would pay as well and be as interesting?"

What?

As a human, you will need to work to not be fat or ugly, whatever your career may be. It probably matters less in finance, to be honest. Look around you. Reflect.

By the time you are old enough to have children and an apartment in Gramercy, you'll (hopefully) be senior enough that you're working "normal" hours. Regardless, it won't even matter if you are working long hours, since some Haitian stranger will be the one picking your child up from pre-preschool or baby Pilates and teaching it Mandarin, not you.

Your husband will only feel emasculated if you challenge him to a dick measuring contest on a daily basis. Women need to shut it with that whole "I'm ambitious, smart and successful so everyone is intimidated by me and I will die alone because of all of this knowledge and power I yield" bullshit. No one cares. If anything, your husband will be grateful to have a dual income home so he can spend his bonuses on vintage Yachtmasters and $80 glasses of scotch instead of 'making every dollar count' due to your being retarded/ inept.

Get hugged a lot? No one dares hug me.

Yes, perhaps complimenting a man will result in his thinking you are hitting on him. However, so will accidentally glancing in his direction for a picosecond or giving him a tired smile in the elevator. What predators, my god.

Trophy wives resent you? Haha trophy wives could care less. They are too busy SoulCycling or having Mommy Brunches to worry about your tired ass.

Are you fat? I'm getting this vibe that you are fat.

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Nov 4, 2015
Nov 6, 2015

Whale confirmed

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Nov 6, 2015
tropos:

Well, it's sensationalist, but true. Women are really lacking at the higher levels and it's downright depressing for me, a woman working in finance. Nothing like continually struggling against the stream, while making sure you aren't fat or ugly (FO only for the most part), or that people won't consider you a bad mother because you work crazy hours, or that people like your husband (as he is a reflection of you), or hoping that your husband will support your career and not feel emasculated, or that you are asked in interviews if you've got anyone to take care of at home, or the fact that as a woman you get hugged a lot, or that you can't really compliment a man because he will think you're hitting on him, or the fact that people confuse you with the receptionist, or the fact that sometimes you really want to join in the office donut parties but you just can't goshdarnit because all the admins are going and you can't afford the calories and you don't want people to get a visual image of you eating fatty pastries with receptionists. Or the fact that the trophy wives slightly resent you and are suspicious of you as you spend more time with their husband than they do. Or the fact that you have seen more men grabbing their balls than anywhere else and it's kind of funny until they touch you or use your pen. And for what? To never get into a senior position?

But as I say to myself, "What else would I do that would pay as well and be as interesting?"

It's actually so hard to not fly off the handle at these asinine comments.

While we're on the topic of "equality," let's also make sure there are the same number of female grunts in the military, homeless women, female suicides, average age of death for women, women in prison, female ADHD diagnoses, female high school dropouts... Shall I go on?

There's a wage penalty for fat/ugly men and women. Fathers working long hours get the same rap. Your husband is a loser. Don't have kids if you want to focus on career. LOL @ hugged a lot. Men can't compliment women for fear of sexual harassment. I can't even respond to the rest of your comments.

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Nov 4, 2015

Notice not a single woman is fighting for equal representation in construction jobs. They don't care about "equal representation." They just want the high pay that finance brings without actually earning it. They have been failing to succeed in a meritocracy and now want to just be given the top jobs for being a woman.

No one has any qualms about hiring women or placing them in top jobs if they can perform well enough. The problem is that most don't, and many of those who could perform well enough instead choose to start families etc.

Welcome to reality, feminists.

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Nov 4, 2015

Guys -- Don't forget about Erin Callan.

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Nov 5, 2015

Dina Dublon

Nov 5, 2015

Well. Government mandated sexual discrimination. Whats next?

Fuck. I am so mad right now. Those people call themselves "liberals" and cut freedoms everywhere they can find them. I AM SO FUCKING MAD. Profile pic related.

Nov 5, 2015

First let me start by saying that this UK idea is beyond stupid. This is the way you create stultified bureaucracies. Second, posting this on WSO is like going on Fox News and saying "no men in womens' bathrooms". It's just red meat to wolves.

Now that that's out of the way, a few rejoinders to the posters above:

  1. If you all think there is no discrimination against women in finance, I've got a flying pig to sell you. Even beyond the open misogyny (which absolutely still exists), the environment itself is not very female-friendly. It's the equivalent of your working at Glamour.
  2. For people who are supposedly good with numbers, you seem to have a tenuous grasp on the concept of "the plural of anecdote isn't data". Listing a handful of female finance execs doesn't prove a single thing. By this logic, listing Dirk Nowitzki, Manu Ginobili and the Gasol brothers means I've proven there are lots of European NBA stars. The reality is that women make up a vanishingly small percentage of executives in finance.
  3. There's lots of evidence (increasing every day) that having more women in executive roles is good for a business. See the studies that show women are on average better money managers and that companies with more women on boards outperform those without many women. I would expect this applies even more so to finance, where having women around to check the men who are driven by dick-measuring contests wouldn't be the worst idea.
  4. There are lots of reasons besides discrimination that women aren't more well-represented in senior roles, with work/family issues probably being the most consequential. This is always going to be the case, but if you think it's the only reason there are fewer females your head is in the sand.
  5. The idea that men get as much shit for being bad fathers as women do for being bad mothers is a joke.
  6. This is a very hard issue to try and "solve", as it's a mix of biology, culture and discrimination. However, you can recognize that gender discrimination in finance exists without agreeing that the Virgin Money idea is a good solution.
Nov 6, 2015

You make a good point. I don't think anyone thinks there is 0 discrimination in finance, tech, etc.; however, your point about Glamour is worth noting - just because there is a bias toward a gender in an industry doesn't mean 1) people within in the industry are actively torpedoing individual member of the opposite sex 2) that by achieving a 50/50 split in executive representation is rational or maximizes value.

More importantly, number 6 is critical. Ham handed solutions, or gender biased diatribes (from either side of the fence) ignore the actual issues.

Nov 5, 2015

I'm shocked, SHOCKED I got shit on for my comment. That's what happens why you try and use reason to address a bunch of 23 year old bankers (and college students) who think they're experts on the working world. I can't wait for the WSO post that says no one discriminates against blacks or hispanics anymore because they know a kid a black kid who got into Harvard with a 1300 SAT.

Nov 5, 2015

Fuck man. Your comment is just so stupid. On the one hand you give that monkey shit for not "being good with numbers" and next sentence you write that

companies with more women on boards outperform those without many women
and thus women in exec positions are good for business.

And next comment you whine why people throw monkey shit at you?

F***K! ***. *******. ***. ***. ******. **?

Nov 5, 2015

They do...there have been academic papers written on this. Yes, it's certainly correlation, but it's nonetheless good to note.

I also like your debate style. Cursing, talking constantly about how over the top angry you are. You definitely seem like someone who tries to learn about an issue and understand the evidence, not someone who has over the top, completely disproportional emotional reactions to things...

Judging from some of your other posts you have a serious persecution complex.

Nov 4, 2015

maybe its because you are so far off base that even arguing with you seems to be a waste of time. I do give you credit for deeming that original article as useless.. other than that , a lot of what you say doesn't gel with my life experiences...
oh, and while we are on the topic,.. I am not a 23 year old banker..

Nov 5, 2015

Did whichever program you went to not teach you that your life experiences are purely anecdotal, and that you should search for data if you want a real picture of what's going on? Here are some examples from just my life experience: at my high school, 30%+ of the class went to Ivy or equivalent. Should I then reason that 30% of all students should be able to compete for those schools? I've never personally been hit by a drunk driver or had a friend who has been hit by a drunk driver. Hence, drunk driving isn't really a big problem. I also have no friends who have died of heroin overdoses or been addicted to prescription meds. Therefore, those two drugs are not a widespread problem in the US. Here's an even better example: in college, I was in a fraternity where guys hooked up with random girls all the time. If I relied on my person experience, I would imagine that's how most college students conducted themselves. However, here's the data: http://www.browndailyherald.com/2012/11/16/hookup-... (this is just one of many studies showing the same thing).

This is why I can't help but go back to Selina Meyers' comment on Veep: "Have you met the American people? Well I have, and let me tell you, they're fucking stupid." People constantly reason from anecdote, personal experience and bias. Here is some data on women in the workplace: https://hbr.org/2013/09/women-in-the-workplace-a-r.... Data, not anecdotes.

Last comment on this issue, as posting anything like this on WSO is like going on Fox News and trying to argue in favor of gun regulation.

Nov 5, 2015

Well in reality it is likely that majority women owned businesses do preform better on an after tax basis, not because the business does any better but because majority women owned businesses receive a more friendly tax structure.

With that tidbit of information out there we can proceed to crux of the issue at hand. There are fewer female execs and board members than men. We can all agree on that. What we seem to disagree on is why. One side says sexism, the other says the best person gets the job.

While sexism still exists it isn't the reason for any of this. Also the best person doesn't get the job. What is the real issue here is the farm teams. There just aren't as many women in the farm teams. What I mean by this is that women for various reasons such as self selection bias, leaving the workforce to raise a family, changing jobs to raise a family, etc. have put themselves in a position of having less selection to choose from. For example if there are 100 qualified candidates to choose from an 80% are men and 20% are women, and the corresponding board room is 83% male and 17% female the variance is a statistically reasonable variance from the available general population. What those who decry sexism don't want to admit is that the gender realities of most board rooms don't stray to far from the available population of qualified candidates.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Nov 5, 2015

So, who are you reading?

Nov 4, 2015

Lol @ folks who think upper middle class white women's 'suffering' holds a candle to challenges faced by black people...

Apparently not getting that raise + promotion + golden parachute (apparently all women are trailblazers - which is why not getting promoted is always sexism) is the same as a statistically high probability of being shot by law enforcement or going to jail..

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Nov 4, 2015

Oh, no, Patrick from WSO knows exactly what I look like and he can say I am definitely not a whale hahahahaha.

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

Nov 4, 2015

This thread massively devolved very quickly, and therefore I doubt I will ever post again. Patrick, it's been nice over these 8 years of commenting, but I'm out.

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

Nov 9, 2015

Do none of you guys realize this already happens in the US?

One of the criteria on which seniors at a number of banks are evaluated is % of employees above a certain level with a diverse background ( women/minority).

It's not a huge percentage of comp but it wouldn't surprise me if every BB had it to an extent.

Nov 9, 2015

@reformed You don't see any differentiation between a company deciding to do it itself, and a government requiring it?

Nov 4, 2015

For me that is the main issue. I do what I can to mitigate what I feel is unfair treatment due to stereotypical bias. I do not feel it is ok to try impose one person's view of fairness on an entire group.

Nov 9, 2015
undefined:

@reformed You don't see any differentiation between a company deciding to do it itself, and a government requiring it?

I'm not a fan of the government in general telling a private company how it should be run, but this seems like a win-win if it makes the government look like it's making an effort and doesn't actually impact any of the major banks.