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Wall Street Oasis » Blogs » TheKing's blog
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The Permanent Recession
 

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TheKing's picture
TheKing
      O
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,169
 
Points)
 on 11/19/12 at 10:00pm
Fuck You Recession

Mod Note (Andy): this was originally posted on 6/19/12

I was out to dinner the other night with a few friends. Each of us work in some variation of finance and have had a decent level of professional success in our young careers, on paper at least. I'm in PE, two of my friends are traders, and one is a consultant.

Despite our relatively good fortune, we all noted that we feel like we're living under a dark cloud that will never dissipate. The figurative cloud in question is, of course, the ongoing global recession.

I'm sure we're not alone in this feeling, In fact, I'm positive. The idea of a double-dip, or worse, comes up at just about every all-hands meeting we hold at my firm. Europe is falling apart, the US' fiscal situation isn't any better. There are no real signs that things will ever really improve.

Is this the new normal? Will it get better? Or are we totally screwed? I started to do some digging to see if there was anyone out there who could put all the pieces together for me to give an answer. I think I found someone with an answer.

His name is Chris Martenson and he paints a deeply troubling picture of the future using hard data.

I'm sure a few of your have heard of him before, and I'm sure a few of you have dismissed him. What I'd ask is that people hear his arguments and look at the data objectively and come to their own conclusions.

His thesis revolves around three main themes:

  • A debt-based economy with a fiat currency requires perpetual growth
  • Peak oil is not a theory but a fact-based reality that will lead to major economic consequences
  • We have exploited natural resources to an extent where new resources are more costly to retrieve and less effective than those already depleted

I plan on diving into each of these concepts over the next few weeks and the idea of the permanent recession more generally.

In the meantime, the video below is Chris Martenson giving a summarized overview of his thesis. In it, he lays out each of his arguments and backs them up with user friendly charts and hard data. I recommend monkeys take some time to watch the video and look into the ideas.

Finally, an open question to the group. Do others have the same feeling that things simply won't get better? If you're more optimistic, why? If you agree, what led you to that conclusion? And lastly, what'll you do about it?

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  • we are fucked
  • the new normal
  • permanent recession
  • debt-based economy
  • Chris Martenson
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Comments

monaco1's picture

Yes I agree with you 100% as

monaco1
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 71
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 5:22pm

Yes I agree with you 100% as do many of my contacts that hold very respectable and high positions in the world of finance. This hybrid ponzi scheme world we live in will eventually bust and it's just a matter of when. We all know it is coming despite this ongoing fairytale, mainstream view that nothing bad could ever happen and that all can be fixed. It is very sad and unfortunate that to be a contrarian in this society comes with dangerous consequences like losing your reputation or and potentially a job despite being correct. This world has fucked itself so extremely bad and it seriously frightens me to hear the powers that be either have no clue what they are talking about or deliberately perpetuate this bullshit for personal gains. I should also add that I'm an avid zero hedge reader.

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RagnarDanneskjold's picture

In the same exact spot. Not

RagnarDanneskjold
      HF
 
(King Kong, 1,031
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 5:20pm

In the same exact spot. Not too sure of Martenson (he's one of the Zerohedge guys) - but I'll check him out. Looking forward to more. +1.

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TraderDaily's picture

I agree with this sentiment!

TraderDaily
     
 
(King Kong, 1,047
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 5:36pm

I agree with this sentiment! Not too long ago (late 90s and 2000ish), college students and everyone else in general were very optimistic. The Dow was exploding. Europe wasn't a problem. The Asian tigers were optimistic and we were optimistic about China, etc. too. People were forgoing b-school and dropping out of college to join or start dot coms. Wall Street couldn't get all of their analysts or associates from the top 10 schools, so they had to do the unthinkable and hire outside of the top 10 because all of the top 10 students wanted to get rich in Silicon Valley. Everyone could get a job. High school kids could buy stocks and multiply their money relatively easily. In 2000, "Boiler Room" came out. It personified how optimistic everyone was. Who needed college when you could get rich with a Series 7? Everyone wanted a piece of the market, unlike now when volumes in equities are dead.

Is there any hope for America?

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mbaer2012's picture

Im optimistic, things will

mbaer2012
      ER
 
(Monkey, 59
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 5:40pm

Im optimistic, things will get better. Why? Because they always get better. Every recession there is someone that says it will be around forever, every boom there is someone that says it will be forever. But to date, this has never been the case. Plus, alternative energy + technological innovation.

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blackrainn's picture

The depression lasted a total

blackrainn
      O
 
(Orangutan, 354
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 5:44pm

The depression lasted a total of around 14 years (probably 16 to get completely out of it).... I think we could be in for another 5-6 years.

Also read Cowan's book The Great Stagnation. It looks like we might be hitting a wall with a lot of things, and the problem is much of our institutions, society, and culture is based on the notion of infinite growth.

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Straightjacket's picture

I disagree with this... Even

Straightjacket
     
 
(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 5:53pm

I disagree with this...

Even if some of the mechanisms which grease the wheel are based on debt and fiat, it doesn't change the fact that we are in a capitalist system. There is a ridiculous amount of money to be made in replacing and making use of certain resources more efficiently.

I think that technological change will continue to prove this theory wrong.

Look at the S&Ps earnings per share progression over 10 years. What can explain figure 1? (http://www.yardeni.com/pub/PEACOCKFEVAL.pdf)

Unless i'm in left field, progress, in absolute terms, is still being made even if valuations got out of whack.

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TraderDaily's picture

Actually, it took until about

TraderDaily
     
 
(King Kong, 1,047
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 5:50pm

Actually, it took until about 1957 for the market to reach its pre-depression high after the big crash of 1929. It wouldn't surprise me that a similar doldrum-like period existed for us again in terms of the economy and also the earthquakes that are happening around the world that affect us here - namely the eurozone.

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RagnarDanneskjold's picture

CDSs weren't on the scene

RagnarDanneskjold
      HF
 
(King Kong, 1,031
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 5:52pm

CDSs weren't on the scene until the mid-90's....

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In reply to Straightjacket
TheKing's picture

Straightjacket: I disagree

TheKing
      O
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,169
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 5:56pm
Straightjacket:

I disagree with this...

Even if some of the mechanisms which grease the wheel are based on debt and fiat, it doesn't change the fact that we are in a capitalist system. There is a ridiculous amount of money to be made in replacing and making use of certain resources more efficiently.

I think that technological change will continue to prove this theory wrong.

Look at the S&Ps earnings per share progression over 10 years. What can explain figure 1? (http://www.yardeni.com/pub/PEACOCKFEVAL.pdf)

Unless i'm in left field, progress, in absolute terms, is still being made even if valuations got out of whack.

In all seriousness, watch the video when you have a chance, and then dig deeper. I used to be in your court, but I've seen too much information to really believe that. Technological progress is always pointed to as though it's magic. Our economic system combined with increasing scarcity of good, low-cost energy sources is going to take a serious toll (and already is, clearly.)

Again, all I'm saying is that people should not dismiss this with feel-good ideas about technological advancements and efficiencies. I'll go into more later, but I wanted to intro the subject at large first.

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mbaer2012's picture

Just look at the financial

mbaer2012
      ER
 
(Monkey, 59
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 6:01pm

Just look at the financial innovation that has come around just these past 10 years, yeah some of them caused the crisis in 2007, but long term they will make the market work better. We have smart phones now!!! In 2002 i was in high school and people were using pagers and people thought that was great... PAGERS!!!! Just imagine what we will have 12 more years from now. Computers just get faster and better. We will find alternative sources of energy. The more expensive oil gets the faster an energy alternative will come around. Either way im long Chevron... :D

You guys keep selling and I will keep buying...

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In reply to TheKing
Straightjacket's picture

TheKing: Straightjacket: I

Straightjacket
     
 
(Chimp, 5
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 6:01pm
TheKing:
Straightjacket:

I disagree with this...

Even if some of the mechanisms which grease the wheel are based on debt and fiat, it doesn't change the fact that we are in a capitalist system. There is a ridiculous amount of money to be made in replacing and making use of certain resources more efficiently.

I think that technological change will continue to prove this theory wrong.

Look at the S&Ps earnings per share progression over 10 years. What can explain figure 1? (http://www.yardeni.com/pub/PEACOCKFEVAL.pdf)

Unless i'm in left field, progress, in absolute terms, is still being made even if valuations got out of whack.

In all seriousness, watch the video when you have a chance, and then dig deeper. I used to be in your court, but I've seen too much information to really believe that. Technological progress is always pointed to as though it's magic. Our economic system combined with increasing scarcity of good, low-cost energy sources is going to take a serious toll (and already is, clearly.)

Again, all I'm saying is that people should not dismiss this with feel-good ideas about technological advancements and efficiencies. I'll go into more later, but I wanted to intro the subject at large first.

I haven't watched the video, however i do agree with some of your points. I don't think tech progress is a magic bullet.

My feeling is that pessimism is now much more common than optimism since 08. I'm not rooting for the other side, simply saying that we are still making progresses in absolute terms and that things aren't catastrophic. The view seems to be skewed to the extreme.

Now i am very worried about all sorts of social benefits that were poorly designed and explode without any mechanisms to correct for recessions.

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WallStreetOasis.com's picture

very interesting

WallStreetOasis.com
      EN
 
 
(Human, 12,192
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 6:26pm

very interesting video...makes me want to go buy gold and silver and curl up into a ball and cry.

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In reply to WallStreetOasis.com
awqtfq's picture

WallStreetOasis.com: very

awqtfq
     
 
(Orangutan, 250
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 6:34pm
WallStreetOasis.com:

very interesting video...makes me want to go buy gold and silver and crawl up in a ball and cry.

Same effect here. Certainly making me very pessimistic about my future in Finance...

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Do what I gotta do's picture

I just hope it gets better

Do what I gotta do
     
 
(Monkey, 53
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 6:37pm

I just hope it gets better soon.................................

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mlamb93's picture

Peak oil (at some point in

mlamb93
      IB
 
(Orangutan, 271
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 6:43pm

Peak oil (at some point in time) is a fact. Oil - and hydrocarbons in general - are a finite resource.

That said, consider the following: total proved reserves for the U.S. in 1944 were 20 billion bbl; as of 2010, this number stood at 20.7 billion bbl despite the production that occurred over that period. This is primarily due to advances in seismic technology as well a increases in drilling and completion capabilities. Decades ago, people thought it was insane/impossible to produce from source rocks (i.e. shales). Not so much anymore.

Humanity endures based on its ability to adapt. Will all of the oil be gone one day? Sure. Has every major play been discovered? I wouldn't bet on it. The only reason unconventional plays like the Eagle Ford, Bakken, and Marcellus exist is because we have engineered ways to make it happen.

Oil or not, energy is fundamental to modern civilization. I wouldn't bet against our collective ability to figure out solutions.

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TheKing's picture

I'd go even further. It made

TheKing
      O
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,169
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 6:41pm
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In reply to mlamb93
TheKing's picture

mlamb93: Peak oil (at some

TheKing
      O
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,169
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 6:46pm

Check out my WSO Blog

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wallstreetballa's picture

Amazing find A shitty picture

wallstreetballa
      ST
 
(Gorilla, 675
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 7:10pm
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In The Flesh's picture

This is more of a

In The Flesh
      HF
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,883
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 7:16pm

Head of Metal Website: www.headofmetal.com

https://twitter.com/headofmetal2012

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Relinquis's picture

This comment from your post

Relinquis
      RE
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,186
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 7:31pm

relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.

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West Coast rainmaker's picture

I am less worried about peak

West Coast rainmaker
      ER
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,128
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 8:35pm
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In reply to West Coast rainmaker
Amphipathic's picture

West Coast rainmaker: I am

Amphipathic
     
 
(Senior Gorilla, 833
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 9:21pm
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rothyman's picture

It's undoubtedly true.. A

rothyman
      HF
 
 
(King Kong, 1,163
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 10:17pm
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trailmix8's picture

Just finished the video

trailmix8
      AM
 
 
(Senior Gorilla, 942
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 10:18pm
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cplpayne's picture

Anybody who thinks logically

cplpayne
      IB
 
(Gorilla, 518
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 11:07pm

"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger

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Bondarb's picture

Even in a very long

Bondarb
      HF
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,359
 
Points)
 on 6/19/12 at 11:09pm
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marcellus_wallace's picture

Valid points from both the OP

marcellus_wallace
      ST
 
 
(King Kong, 1,643
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 12:19am
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blackrainn's picture

Christ you people. There is

blackrainn
      O
 
(Orangutan, 354
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 12:26am
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In reply to blackrainn
Amphipathic's picture

blackrainn: Christ you

Amphipathic
     
 
(Senior Gorilla, 833
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 1:36am
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madmoney15's picture

OK, I appreciate this thread

madmoney15
     
 
(Orangutan, 365
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 1:55am

See my WSO Blog

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madmoney15's picture

And his research could be

madmoney15
     
 
(Orangutan, 365
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 1:56am

See my WSO Blog

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SlikRick's picture

Great topic. It's topics like

SlikRick
      CO
 
(Senior Orangutan, 461
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 5:51am
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JDawg's picture

Great post I'll have to check

JDawg
     
 
(Gorilla, 528
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 8:39am
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In reply to SlikRick
WallStreetOasis.com's picture

SlikRick: Great topic. It's

WallStreetOasis.com
      EN
 
 
(Human, 12,192
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 8:45am

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In reply to blackrainn
Grayson's picture

blackrainn: Christ you

Grayson
      IA
 
(Monkey, 62
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 9:08am

"He chose money over power, a mistake nearly everyone makes. Money is the Mcmansion in Sarasota that starts falling apart after 10 years. Power is the old stone building that stands for centuries. I cannot respect someone who doesn't see the difference."

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TheKing's picture

To add: I am by no means

TheKing
      O
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,169
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 9:53am

Check out my WSO Blog

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In reply to TheKing
mlamb93's picture

TheKing: To add: I am by no

mlamb93
      IB
 
(Orangutan, 271
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 11:11am
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In reply to RagnarDanneskjold
zeropower's picture

RagnarDanneskjold: CDSs

zeropower
      ST
 
(Senior Orangutan, 486
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 12:21pm
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In reply to zeropower
RagnarDanneskjold's picture

zeropower: RagnarDanneskjol

RagnarDanneskjold
      HF
 
(King Kong, 1,031
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 12:33pm
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In reply to RagnarDanneskjold
zeropower's picture

RagnarDanneskjold: zeropowe

zeropower
      ST
 
(Senior Orangutan, 486
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 12:49pm
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R0bin's picture

In both Italian and Chinese

R0bin
     
 
(Orangutan, 292
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 1:11pm

Baby you're the perfect shape, baby you're the perfect weight. Treat me like my birthday, I want it this way and I want it that way. It makes a man feel good baby.

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miermier's picture

R0bin: In both Italian and

miermier
     
 
(Baboon, 136
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 6:15pm
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rothyman's picture

miermier: R0bin: In both

rothyman
      HF
 
 
(King Kong, 1,163
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 7:34pm
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R0bin's picture

Rothyman, I know little about

R0bin
     
 
(Orangutan, 292
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 7:40pm

Baby you're the perfect shape, baby you're the perfect weight. Treat me like my birthday, I want it this way and I want it that way. It makes a man feel good baby.

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In reply to rothyman
farmerbob's picture

rothyman: If you can explain

farmerbob
      ST
 
(Senior Baboon, 177
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 7:57pm
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In reply to farmerbob
rothyman's picture

farmerbob: rothyman: If you

rothyman
      HF
 
 
(King Kong, 1,163
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 8:10pm
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WallStreetOasis.com's picture

yes, i dont think I've seen a

WallStreetOasis.com
      EN
 
 
(Human, 12,192
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 8:22pm

WSO Conference 2013

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In reply to R0bin
TexasMacaque's picture

R0bin: Rothyman, I know

TexasMacaque
      O
 
(Chimp, 13
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 8:23pm
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Relinquis's picture

For me the key takeaway is

Relinquis
      RE
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,186
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 9:39pm

relinquis... Killing the GMAT this December; Over/Under set at: 725 GMATs.

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In reply to Relinquis
rothyman's picture

Relinquis: For me the key

rothyman
      HF
 
 
(King Kong, 1,163
 
Points)
 on 6/20/12 at 9:40pm
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The contents of this Web Site, such as text, graphics, images, logos, button icons, software and other items (collectively, "Material"), are protected under both United States and foreign copyright, trademark and other laws. All Material is the property of the Company or its content suppliers or clients. The compilation (meaning the collection, arrangement and assembly) of all content on this Web Site is the exclusive property of the Company and protected by U.S. and international copyright laws. Unauthorized use of the Material may violate copyright, trademark, and other laws. You must retain all copyright, trademark, service-mark and other proprietary notices contained in the original Material on any copy you make of the Material. You may not sell or modify the Material or reproduce, display, publicly perform, distribute, or otherwise use the Material in any way for any public or commercial purpose. The use of the Material on any other web site or in a networked computer environment for any purpose is prohibited.

You shall not copy or adapt the HTML code that the Company creates to generate its pages. It is also protected by the Company?s copyright.

Acceptable Site Use.

General Rules: Users may not use the Web Site in order to transmit, distribute, store or destroy material (a) in violation of any applicable law or regulation, (b) in a manner that will infringe the copyright, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights of others or violate the privacy, publicity or other personal rights of others, or (c) that is defamatory, obscene, threatening, abusive or hateful.

Web Site Security Rules. Users are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security of the Web Site, including, without limitation, (a) accessing data not intended for such user or logging into a server or account which the user is not authorized to access, (b) attempting to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without proper authorization, (c) attempting to interfere with service to any user, host or network, including, without limitation, via means of submitting a virus to the Web Site, overloading, "flooding", "spamming", "mailbombing" or "crashing", (d) sending unsolicited e-mail, including promotions and/or advertising of products or services, or (e) forging any TCP/IP packet header or any part of the header information in any e-mail. Violations of system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. The Company will investigate occurrences which may involve such violations and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting users who are involved in such violations.

Specific Prohibited Uses.

The Company specifically prohibits any use of the Web Site, and all users agree not to use the Web Site, for any of the following:

  • Posting any incomplete, false or inaccurate biographical information or information which is not your own accurate resume
  • Using any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of this Web Site or any activity being conducted on this site.
  • Taking any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on this Web Site?s infrastructure.
  • If you have a password allowing access to a non-public area of this Web Site, disclosing to or sharing your password with any third parties or using your password for any unauthorized purpose.
  • Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained herein, using or attempting to use any engine, software, tool, agent or other device or mechanism (including without limitation browsers, spiders, robots, avatars or intelligent agents) to navigate or search this Web Site other than the search engine and search agents available from the Company on this Web Site and other than generally available third party web browsers (e.g., Netscape Navigator, Microsoft Explorer).
  • Attempting to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software comprising or in any way making up a part of the Web Site.
  • Aggregating, copying or duplicating in any manner any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.
  • Framing of or linking to any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.

User Information.

When you register for the Web Site, you will be asked to provide the Company with certain information including, without limitation, a valid email address (your "Information"). In addition to the terms and conditions that may be set forth in any privacy policy on this Web Site, you understand and agree that the Company may disclose to third parties, on an anonymous basis, certain aggregate information contained in your registration application. The Company reserves the right to offer third party services and products to you based on the preferences that you identify in your registration and at any time thereafter; such offers may be made by the Company or by third parties. Please see the Company's Privacy Policy below for further details regarding your Information.

Registration and Password.

You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your information and password. You shall be responsible for all uses of your registration, whether or not authorized by you. You agree to immediately notify the Company of any unauthorized use of your registration or password.

The Company's Liability.

As a condition to your use of this site, you release the Company (and our agents and employees) from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential, direct and indirect) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes. If you are a California resident, you waive California Civil Code d1542, which says: "A general release does not extend to claims which the creditor does not know or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the release, which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement with the debtor."

We are under no legal obligation to, and generally do not, control the information provided by other users which is made available through the Web Site. By its very nature, other people?s information may be offensive, harmful or inaccurate, and in some cases will be mislabeled or deceptively labeled. We expect that you will use caution and common sense when using this Web Site.

The Material may contain inaccuracies or typographical errors. The Company makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness, or timeliness of the Web Site or the Material. The use of the Web Site and the Material is at your own risk. Changes are periodically made to the Web Site and may be made at any time.

You acknowledge and agree that you are solely responsible for the content and accuracy of any resume or material contained therein placed by you on the Web Site and you agree to let any users that are identified as recruiters (designated in the sole discretion of the Company) to have access to your resume.

The Company is not to be considered to be an employer with respect to your use of the Web Site and the Company shall not be responsible for any employment decisions, for whatever reason made, made by any entity posting jobs on the Web Site.

THE COMPANY DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE WEB SITE WILL OPERATE ERROR-FREE OR THAT THE WEB SITE AND ITS SERVER ARE FREE OF COMPUTER VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL MECHANISMS. IF YOUR USE OF THE WEB SITE OR THE MATERIAL RESULTS IN THE NEED FOR SERVICING OR REPLACING EQUIPMENT OR DATA, THE COMPANY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE COSTS.

THE WEB SITE AND MATERIAL ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND. THE COMPANY, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE COMPANY MAKES NO WARRANTIES ABOUT THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, COMPLETENESS, OR TIMELINESS OF THE MATERIAL, SERVICES, SOFTWARE, TEXT, GRAPHICS, AND LINKS.

Disclaimer of Consequential Damages.

IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COMPANY, ITS SUPPLIERS, OR ANY THIRD PARTIES MENTIONED ON THE WEB SITE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, LOST PROFITS, OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM LOST DATA OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE WEB SITE AND THE MATERIAL, WHETHER BASED ON WARRANTY, CONTRACT, TORT, OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE COMPANY IS ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Links to Other Sites.

The Web Site may contain links to third party web sites. These links are provided solely as a convenience to you and not as an endorsement by the Company of the contents on such third-party Web sites. The Company is not responsible for the content of linked third-party sites and does not make any representations regarding the content or accuracy of materials on such third party Web sites. If you decide to access linked third party Web sites, you do so at your own risk.

No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use.

You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Term of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of the Web Site.

Limitation of Liability.

The aggregate liability for the Company to you for all claims arising from the use of the Materials is limited to $1.

Termination.

The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

Forum Topics

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  • I searched the site and realize that most posts about this are very old. I'm looking for current opinions. I've read that people who get into IB through SEO generally get less respect from their peers. My questions are: 1. How do people even know if you got in through SEO or not? 2. Why...
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  • So all new users to WSO get 6 free financial modeling lessons, 5 of my best tips for networking and my best tips for interviewing over the first month of being a user. Tonght I got a response from one of my networking tips e-mails from a slightly older gentleman that is a "financial...
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  • Assume no CD experience pre-MBA. My thoughts are that working in CD requires making long-term investments (albeit strategic/operational, as opposed to financial), so it may force one to think like a long-term owner, a la value-oriented investing. If possible, how long should it take in CD...
    Post-MBA Corporate Development --> Fundamental/Value HF ... good path to try?
  • Does anyone have PE recruiting resources they'd be willing to share/ trade? I'm looking for modeling tests (with solutions) and have a few tests from top tier funds to trade in exchange. Any other recruiting resources would be appreciated as well. Please PM me....
    PE recruiting resources
  • Hi all - As i have been looking through this site, i have found their seems to be a lack on anything Australian. While that is understandable seeming as the industry is US focused, i thought i'd take the opportunity to try and develop a useful collection of tid-bits and facts by sharing...
    Answering Australian I-Banking Questions!
  • As summer rolls around, many folks leave the office a little earlier on Thursday or Friday nights to make it out for a cocktail event or weekend away from town. There will be a solid amount of extra-industry networking going on, to say the least. And by that I mean sloppy cocktail parties. But...
    Summer Cocktail Events - 5 Tips to Keep the Conversation Flowing
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    -
  • Hi everyone, I got admitted in the MSF programs at Olin and McCombs recently. Both B.schools are well recognized in their respective regions but I am very confused because of the following factors. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. I would like to work in IB/ Asset Management. I...
    McCombs MSF or Olins MSF(corp track)
  • Is it possible to get sponsored for series 7 as an undergraduate intern? The company is indeed a member of FINRA. Was thinking of reaching out to one of the executives. Any advice or suggestions are greatly...
    Series 7 while on undergrad internship
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<em>Mod note: make sure to see the great comment below by CompBanker</em> I come from a small town where nobody had ever heard of consulting or IB. I was fortunate enough to attend a top target college (a good Ivy) and land a gig in IB at a BB/EB. I'm starting full time this...
Finance Culture - Personalities
<strong>Background</strong> I randomly discovered WSO nearly seven years ago just weeks after I secured a FT MM IB position. The website was extremely nascent at the time with only a few thousand registered users. The majority of the users were college students with only a handful...
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After over one year in the making, the <strong><a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/2013-wso-compensation-report-full">2013 WSO Compensation Report</a></strong> is here! Access to the FULL 108 page 2013 WSO Compensation Report is <strong>100%...
2013 WSO Compensation Report has Arrived
Where do i even start..I learned so much from this forum. The brutally honest opinions, sincere willingness to help, the technical information and random tips on everything has been absolutely crucial for me landing this offer. Coming from a non-target I didnt get that 3rd year SA position at...
Thank you WSO! Got my FT Offer! ADVICE NEEDED
When I first started as a PE analyst, I constantly struggled with judging the amount of time I should spend on reviewing sourced deals. How much time is enough to really get a handle on the company’s revenue streams? How granular do I need my analysis to be on industry threats? With this...
Misguided Efforts: A Cautionary Tale
Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
WSO is Looking for Campus Reps For Summer/Fall 2013 (and beyond)
Many of the questions that have come in surround recruiting for front office Wall Street careers from a non-target so we’ll start with some ideas for recruiting, move on to interviewing, preparing for the job and finally long-term career management advice. Before we begin, it has been...
Stand Out as a Non-Target: Recruiting (Part 1 of 4)
Any Asset Management people here who could give me some insights on it, such as the nature of the work, the pay, the hours, the potential for career advancement, ect? I was looking into IB before but I've decided that I would rather pursue a career that's more intellectually...
Asset Management a better choice than Investment Banking?
<img src="//img.pandawhale.com/48721-Sexually-Oblivious-Female-Meme-Ze2w.png" alt="Sexually Oblivious Female Meme - Favorite Position? I would like to be a CEO.">
If you could be the richest person in the world with your dream job only as a public virgin forever would you do it?
<em>Mod Note: Blast from the Past - "Best of Eddie" - This one is from June 2011.</em> <em><strong><u>Freeriding</u> :</strong> The illegal activity of buying a stock and selling it before paying for the purchase.</em> - <a...
Come On and Take a Free Ride
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