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9/12/12

I'm going to keep this short because I know there's no way I can print what I really think without inciting a flame war of epic proportions. J. Christopher Stevens, the U.S. Ambassador to Libya, was murdered by Muslim extremists in Benghazi today. Protesters stormed the US Consulate and burned it to the ground. Stevens was suffocated in his car, and the three diplomats with him were shot to death.

This is in addition to the attacks on the U.S. Embassy in Cairo yesterday.

How should the U.S. respond?

Comments (190)

9/12/12

you can change the regime, but you can't change the people.

9/12/12

Is this enough provocation for boots on the ground?

9/12/12

Really sad/fucked up situation. My view has always been to stay the fuck out of Middle Eastern affairs, but I realize it's a complicated issue.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."

9/12/12

Killing a US diplomat is serious enough to incite military action but I believe it will not happen b/c in 2 months we have an election and Obama wont risk sending troops to Libya after his main campaign strategy was to be different from the Bush era that sent troops in too quickly.

9/12/12

Its a really sad thing, all those people clearly are more cult followers than anything else by their behavior. I know I bash America every once in a while, but seeing this happening as a western makes me feel as if those things, those creatures come from the fucking dark ages. There should be a "mock mohammed (or however it is written) day" in all western nations, come and get us all.

Valor is of no service, chance rules all, and the bravest often fall by the hands of cowards. - Tacitus

Dr. Nick Riviera: Hey, don't worry. You don't have to make up stories here. Save that for court!

9/12/12

I don't want another war, but "strong condemnation" is a wholly inadequate response. I would like any retaliation to specifically target the group that attacked the embassy. Drone strikes, special forces raids, etc. We don't need to "fix" Libya/Egypt...I doubt that's even possible.

9/12/12

This is why the West should never intervene in other countries, especially not under the terribly fake message of "protecting the people" that was used in Libya and is being used in Syria. The 'rebels' are just bands of different militia who do NOT have the Libyan people's best interests at heart and just want power for themselves.

9/12/12

The issue is, we are so jaded from years of conflicts over there that the response is very well going to be muted. In fact, I didn't even realize they stormed it and burned it until I read your post this morning. Our media is fucking disgraceful, and for this to come right after the anniversary of September 11th it really gets me going. Obama will surely do little because he has an election coming up. Frankly, it reminds me how pathetic our leaders are if they allow attacks like this to go unpunished. You simply can't let this go. It would be shameful if we did.

In reply to Addinator
9/12/12

Addinator:
The issue is, we are so jaded from years of conflicts over there that the response is very well going to be muted. In fact, I didn't even realize they stormed it and burned it until I read your post this morning. Our media is fucking disgraceful, and for this to come right after the anniversary of September 11th it really gets me going. Obama will surely do little because he has an election coming up. Frankly, it reminds me how pathetic our leaders are if they allow attacks like this to go unpunished. You simply can't let this go. It would be shameful if we did.

Don't worry, even when our pussy-in-chief doesn't authorize it, we're still taking care of business when something happens to one of our own. You just won't hear him take credit for it.

I hate victims who respect their executioners

9/12/12

I'd wager the retaliation for this will be more 'Munich' style than full boots on the ground (which is a stupid idea)

9/12/12

It's always sad to see death. You have to remember that Libya is still a war zone.

Not to be controversial, but maybe an appropriate response would be to leave the country (Libya). I mean Obama decided to pick sides in a civil war and, through NATO, repeatedly bomb the country and depose its dictator. The attack on the embassy in Libya is a direct consequence of US presence there and US involvement in the Libyan war and, most likely, continued involvement in the internal affairs of the country.

These are all post-colonial countries/societies (Middle East & North Africa). It's been less than a generation/lifetime since most of them got rid of the previous imperial occupiers (Britain, France & Italy) after the fall of the Ottoman empire. Maybe it's best if the US doesn't seem like it's taking their place through occupations, bombing and support of various different political factions/regimes.

Maybe this incident could have been avoided if Obama had sought congressional approval of the war. I don't know.

9/12/12

Today we did what we had to do. They counted on America to be passive. They counted wrong -- Ronald Reagan

That being said, USA is always sending in civilian contractors and SpecOps teams to do dirty shit. If you think you can burn down an American embassy and kill our ambassadors without there being repercussions, you are wrong.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

9/12/12

I'm going to ask the obvious question; why didnt the Marines stationed there send a couple hundred of these fucks with the Ambassador to the great beyond? Pretty sure protecting the Ambassador is rather high on the list when you're an embassy guard. Pretty embarassing for them and infuriating for me.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

9/12/12

Obama is such a bitch

McCain would've handled these clowns

9/12/12

Killing a diplomat will probably never warrant sending troops to a country, in the public's eyes, regardless of an election. This does not exclude covert action. I'm sure we have "Analysts" on the ground working their contacts to bring down the people responsible.

9/12/12

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this in retaliation to a movie?

I hate victims who respect their executioners

9/12/12

Statement by the President on the Attack in Benghazi

I strongly condemn the outrageous attack on our diplomatic facility in Benghazi, which took the lives of four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens. Right now, the American people have the families of those we lost in our thoughts and prayers. They exemplified America's commitment to freedom, justice, and partnership with nations and people around the globe, and stand in stark contrast to those who callously took their lives.

I have directed my Administration to provide all necessary resources to support the security of our personnel in Libya, and to increase security at our diplomatic posts around the globe. While the United States rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, we must all unequivocally oppose the kind of senseless violence that took the lives of these public servants.

On a personal note, Chris was a courageous and exemplary representative of the United States. Throughout the Libyan revolution, he selflessly served our country and the Libyan people at our mission in Benghazi. As Ambassador in Tripoli, he has supported Libya's transition to democracy. His legacy will endure wherever human beings reach for liberty and justice. I am profoundly grateful for his service to my Administration, and deeply saddened by this loss.

The brave Americans we lost represent the extraordinary service and sacrifices that our civilians make every day around the globe. As we stand united with their families, let us now redouble our own efforts to carry their work forward.

official statement by the pres

In reply to BlackHat
9/12/12

BlackHat:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this in retaliation to a movie?

Yep, a movie directed by a 'Jewish Real Estate Developer' so I'm sure that helped.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to happypantsmcgee
9/12/12

happypantsmcgee:
BlackHat:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this in retaliation to a movie?

Yep, a movie directed by a 'Jewish Real Estate Developer' so I'm sure that helped.

In that case - and not that it makes much of a difference - isn't it a little misleading to say our ambassador was "assassinated" when really he was just one of the people who got killed by this mob of reckless monkeys? If that's the case, I think we should probably be focusing on said monkeys and not trying to criticize US foreign policy and involvement in Libyan civil war.

And to echo a few others, I'd venture to guess that at least a few of the people involved in the killing are already... indisposed. Just won't be making front page news any time soon.

I hate victims who respect their executioners

In reply to happypantsmcgee
9/12/12

happypantsmcgee:
I'm going to ask the obvious question; why didnt the Marines stationed there send a couple hundred of these fucks with the Ambassador to the great beyond? Pretty sure protecting the Ambassador is rather high on the list when you're an embassy guard. Pretty embarassing for them and infuriating for me.

Knowing a little bit about how MSG works, I think I can answer this one. First, this was a consulate and not an embassy, so there's a better than 50/50 shot that there were no Marine guards there.

It's a common misconception that the Marine Security Guard detail at an embassy is there to protect the embassy and/or embassy personnel. This is simply not the case. The MSG has one mission and one mission only: to protect (and, in the event of being overrun, destroy) classified information. That's it. Not to repel assaults, not to be bodyguards, and not function as an assault force.

The security of the embassy is the responsibility of the embassy security office and the local police. Which speaks to a much larger problem in this case: the local police in both Cairo and Benghazi tasked with protecting the embassy (and consulate, respectively) allowed this to happen.

9/12/12

There is no solution to the Middle East. It all comes back to the religion and how much it contrasts with Western ideals. I know there are peaceful practitioners of Islam and Muslim religions as I'm so often reminded but that's obviously not the case in these areas. There's really no reason to continue dumping aid into these countries that mostly hate America. We have tried working with them and nothing has really changed. On the other hand, the more you try to fight, the more intense there hate gets. I'm not advocating this at all but the only way any country could win a war in the middle east would be to wipe out the country. Trying to do what the US has been doing for the past few years is a waste of time, money, and lives.

In reply to happypantsmcgee
9/12/12

happypantsmcgee:
why didnt the Marines stationed there send a couple hundred of these fucks with the Ambassador to the great beyond?

I was wondering the same thing, guarding embassies is one of the things Marines are known for. Right off the bat, there's more going on here than the news is reporting or maybe even knows about. First ambassador to die since 1979, when our Afghanistan campaign against the Soviets started: shady.

As for the Israeli based in Cali: how about spouting off from Israel and drawing fire to Israel. Be a man about it instead of having us take the bullet. "I didn't know this would cause this reaction": bullshit, you poke a hornet's nest and this is what they do. You want to stir the pot, do it at YOUR cost, not OURS. It's not like we don't do enough proping up that tiny speck of nothing...don't make our job harder. Take this literally, it's not a judgement of Israel one way or the other, I'm just commenting on this incident.

I'm not sure what people think sending troops in will accomplish, it's a civil war and it will just become the common denominator to hate us. Drone / special force strikes to further our goals is more likely to get better results for the time being...and yes, this president authorizes them. I'm sure the CIA is going to be working overtime snuffing baddies now, they're only human and will want revenge: they also can kill with a good deal more impunity than troops that can be openly cited in the larger relationship management environment.

Ultimately, MENA countries are their own worst enemy. Yeah, the US wants oil and all that, but we don't absolutely need it from them. More important is regional stability: people criticize the US for managing the chaos over there, but I'm thinking unmitigated war would be a total disaster. Another US objective is to prevent the Chinese and Russians from setting up camp....then MENA pplz would really be fucked. Look at our invasion of Afghanistan, and look at the Soviet invasion. No comparison.

The timing, well it sucks. Lots of raw nerves over here, and if we held ourselves to the same shitty logic as the MENA whakos, we'd be going in for honor kills right now. I guess this is one of the reasons we're BETTER THAN THEM. My personal opinion: to hell with MENA. Manage the chaos in a way that's beneficial to us, leave the door open for them to be constructive (not holding my breath) and limit our losses. Just because they're a mess doesn't mean we have to be.

Get busy living

9/12/12

Happy,

Just as I suspected, there were no Marines there:

Nearly a dozen Americans were inside the consulate at the time, guarded only by Libyan security. For nearly 20 minutes the Libyan guards exchanged fire with the attackers, who hurled a firebomb inside.

http://gma.yahoo.com/u-s--ambassador-to-libya-chri...

Pretty common for a consulate, actually. We can't be everywhere.

But we're heading there now:

Motherfuckers.

In reply to BlackHat
9/12/12

BlackHat:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this in retaliation to a movie?

"over a film that ridiculed Islam's Prophet Muhammad" - AP

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

In reply to Edmundo Braverman
9/12/12

Edmundo Braverman:
happypantsmcgee:
I'm going to ask the obvious question; why didnt the Marines stationed there send a couple hundred of these fucks with the Ambassador to the great beyond? Pretty sure protecting the Ambassador is rather high on the list when you're an embassy guard. Pretty embarassing for them and infuriating for me.

Knowing a little bit about how MSG works, I think I can answer this one. First, this was a consulate and not an embassy, so there's a better than 50/50 shot that there were no Marine guards there.

It's a common misconception that the Marine Security Guard detail at an embassy is there to protect the embassy and/or embassy personnel. This is simply not the case. The MSG has one mission and one mission only: to protect (and, in the event of being overrun, destroy) classified information. That's it. Not to repel assaults, not to be bodyguards, and not function as an assault force.

The security of the embassy is the responsibility of the embassy security office and the local police. Which speaks to a much larger problem in this case: the local police in both Cairo and Benghazi tasked with protecting the embassy (and consulate, respectively) allowed this to happen.


Interesting, I did not know that was the case. Makes a lot more sense now.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

9/12/12

Looks like they decided to parade the Ambassador's body around the town square when they were done:

Filthy, backward fucking savages.

In reply to Edmundo Braverman
9/12/12

Edmundo Braverman:
backward fucking savages

Get busy living

9/12/12

this is mogadishu revisited.

don't see how there will not be a military reaction now.

In reply to Kenny Powers
9/12/12

Kenny Powers:
BlackHat:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this in retaliation to a movie?

"over a film that ridiculed Islam's Prophet Muhammad" - AP

This video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmodVun16Q4

Valor is of no service, chance rules all, and the bravest often fall by the hands of cowards. - Tacitus

Dr. Nick Riviera: Hey, don't worry. You don't have to make up stories here. Save that for court!

9/12/12


Fuck Libya

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.

9/12/12

Considering how much the anointed one blames Bush for everything, you'd think he would have learned what not to do. You help overthrow a country and then act surprised when chaos ensues. This is horrible and sad, but a further reminder that we should mind our own business.

And while I instinctively want to call for retaliation or call these people animals, it was the US which bombed from afar, threw the country in chaos and caused a lot of this.

Thanks Obama.

In reply to Edmundo Braverman
9/12/12

Edmundo Braverman:

Filthy, backward fucking savages.
9/12/12

Seeing the images of them dragging his body through the streets is sending me into an enraged frenzy.

--Bomb Libya until nothing is left but a barren moonscape
--Stick a giant hose into the ground to suck out any natural resources and send them back to America

Religion poisons everything.

In reply to TheKing
9/12/12

TheKing:

--Stick a giant hose into the ground to suck out any natural resources and send them back to America

yeah man, Daniel Plainview style... DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN !!!

9/12/12

I'll make a longer post on this thread later, but...

Obama needs to do what Thomas Jefferson did in a earlier time. You can not kill an American Ambassador and get away with it. We need to hunt those guys down, get 'em dead or alive.

In reply to TNA
9/12/12

TNA:
Considering how much the anointed one blames Bush for everything, you'd think he would have learned what not to do. You help overthrow a country and then act surprised when chaos ensues. This is horrible and sad, but a further reminder that we should mind our own business.

And while I instinctively want to call for retaliation or call these people animals, it was the US which bombed from afar, threw the country in chaos and caused a lot of this.

Thanks Obama.

as physically ill as i feel about this murder, and as much as i crave revenge for this, i agree with you. we have to stop going around the world putting pins in rattlesnakes. failing that, we have to expect that it is going to get us bit.

gaddafi was a murdering son of a bitch, but he was a murdering son of a bitch who was able to keep al qaeda and other far worse sons of bitches out of libya for the most part. same with hussein. our whole approach of regime change with no thought as to what happens apres le deluge leads to problems like in egypt, libya, iraq and afghanistan.

we are making the SAME MISTAKE in real time in syria right now. what happens when assad is gone? what kinds of snakes pop up when there is anarchy there? how many more americans will be dragged out and barbarously murdered then?

9/12/12

President Obama has to address the nation on this doesn't he? Theres just no two ways about it.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to TheKing
9/12/12

TheKing:
Seeing the images of them dragging his body through the streets is sending me into an enraged frenzy.
In reply to TNA
9/12/12

TNA:
while I instinctively want to call for retaliation or call these people animals, it was the US which bombed from afar, threw the country in chaos and caused a lot of this.

Mostly agree. On a side note: a lot of people who said things like this in 2003 and were branded 'traitorous eeeevil liberals'. C'mon, don't you want to go fight them and save the world? What's the matter, you a pussy? You hate America?

Imagine being fucked with like this by your whole social network over an extended period of time, and you'll understand the following statement: "I'm glad Romeny is losing. Not because I love Obama, but because every GOP person I know is incredibly depressed. Attn GOP: you're not the only one who suffered, and now you know how it feels to be kicked while you're down. But I'm not here to make nice: fuck yourselves, then kill yourselves and rot in hell for all I care. Thanks."

Get busy living

In reply to happypantsmcgee
9/12/12

happypantsmcgee:
President Obama has to address the nation on this doesn't he? Theres just no two ways about it.

He addressed it this morning:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/obama-lib...

Just, fuck dude. This shit is so insane.

In reply to TheKing
9/12/12

TheKing:
Seeing the images of them dragging his body through the streets is sending me into an enraged frenzy.

--Bomb Libya until nothing is left but a barren moonscape
--Stick a giant hose into the ground to suck out any natural resources and send them back to America

Religion poisons everything.

9/12/12

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to BlackHat
9/12/12

BlackHat:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this in retaliation to a movie?

Yes here are the trailers (sorry don't know how to embed)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntgzoE7rU9A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AccGMUIQQRE

The fact that they would get so pissed off about something so stupid shows how insane Middle Eastern Muslims are.

9/12/12

The United States was attacked on sovereign, American soil. An American Ambassador and other diplomatic officials have been assassinated by foreign attackers. America must respond with military force. Not an invasion, but a large aerial campaign must be launched, and the Libyan government must be held liable. Our foreign policy can no longer appease extremists. It's time to fight back through a show of strength. Time to put these animals in their place!

In reply to happypantsmcgee
9/12/12

happypantsmcgee:
Fuck you Libya.
http://www.local12.com/content/breaking_news/story...

"The Marines are members of an elite group known as a Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team, whose role is to respond on short notice to terrorism threats and to reinforce security at U.S. embassies"

Wish I wore my American flag belt to work to honor these finely tuned citizens of the services, as well as those who lost lives or loved ones to these primal bunch of fucking mongrels. We are coming, Libya.

In reply to Edmundo Braverman
9/12/12

Edmundo Braverman:

Filthy, backward fucking savages.

This. I normally like take the stance that there are no "savage" cultures, but this is something out of the dark ages. Over a virtually unknown film. The US has it's share of religious fundamentalists. But nobody is calling for a holy war because somebody ridiculed Christianity.

We cannot fix the MENA. Our arguments can be well reasoned and sympathetic. We can provide them with aid and financial incentives. But, it doesn't matter if they are still such a religious society. Big Macs and iPods are irrelevant if an omnipotent being is commanding you to wage war against another culture.

9/12/12

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to TheKing
9/12/12

TheKing:
Seeing the images of them dragging his body through the streets is sending me into an enraged frenzy.

--Bomb Libya until nothing is left but a barren moonscape
--Stick a giant hose into the ground to suck out any natural resources and send them back to America

Religion poisons everything.

Shocking... All it took was a photo (as gruesome as it is) of one dead American to get you to advocate genocide and an imperial project. I suppose one doesn't need religion to end up with support for such crimes (as an atheist it saddens me to say this).

That's all it took to rid you of your humanity. These guys have been fighting a civil war for over a year and have seen American led NATO bombs rip through their country and communities. Some of the rebels in Libya had witnessed America's project in Iraq first hand.

I understand your emotions and the rage, and it probably isn't my place to ask you to consider the situation dispassionately at the moment. I just hope it doesn't turn you into your perceived enemy.

War poisons everything.

9/12/12

" there is a perpetual war among Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia"

And good luck sending in ground troops and bombing anything. After 10 years of war and countless tours overseas our troops are beat to shit.

I'll tell you what. I would vote for Obama if he got on TV and said "sucks this guy died, but when you attack other people sometimes they want to kill you. Cost of doing business."

9/12/12

when we give foreign aid to these countries, we are giving money to governments who carry water for us. sometimes (i.e. pakistan) they don't even do that. but don't delude yourself into thinking that this foreign aid is anything other than support for despots who are the least bad of a horrible set of options. the money is not spent on hershey bars for orphans.

the ambassador has been murdered along with a staffer and two marines. nothing can bring them back now, and i only hope that our special forces are hunting down the goddamned cockroaches who did this.

however, we as a country never fail not to learn a goddamn thing from these teachable moments. there are those who want to knock over syria, or withdraw aid from pakistan, with no thought as to the consequences. the kinds of monsters that will replace the syrian and pakistani regimes are exactly the kinds you are seeing in the streets of benghazi today.

just a year and a half ago we were providing arms and air support to exactly the same mobs who murdered our ambassador. time to reflect.

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