Poverty Breeds CONSERVATISM....say what?!

Income inequality breeds political extremes. Communists and extreme-right parties have been steadily gaining ground in Europe, while in the U.S. you've got the Tea Party and some extremely left-leaning Democrats (Waters, Frank) gaining steam. Who people vote for probably depends most on their upbringing. They think the center and mainstream parties are corrupt and ineffective and that somebody who caters to them (extreme parties are usually characterized by their populist streak) can finally give them the answers they seek. Bottom line is if you're white, from Iowa and are dirt poor, the Tea Party is looking great right now. If you're from Detroit, are African-American and can barely feed your kids, these Democrats need to be even more left-leaning than they are now.

I agree that most disaffected people don't want a free lunch. It's just too bad that the politicians catering to them are either fighting for even more free lunches or are trying to send the people "that took yer job" back home.

"The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles."

-Karl Marx. The Communist Manifesto

People in poverty are, as a group, less intelligent than the rich. What's your point?

It's too bad the people in the capitalism rocks photo are actually making fun of it with signs like "Profits before People," "Money is my life," "Cars over trees," etc

I don't know enough about whether people in poverty actually want out, so I won't comment on that.

However, I definitely agree on the wealthy using their power and stature to keep the bottom oppressed. I think one could make the argument that the wealthy liberal elite would like to see a return to feudalism. These people use welfare programs, food stamps, housing programs, etc, to keep the population enslaved in a form of modern day serfdom. They believe strongly in environmental policies that would create the modern day equivalent of an agrarian state. I'm not advocating this argument, but I believe it is certainly possible that the vision of the liberal elite is equivalent to a modern day feudalistic state.

As for above poster, military spending actually leads to a lot of scientific and engineering breakthroughs. Cutting down on military spending may actually reduct the amount of technological progress we make.

The USA is spending money it doesn't have. Either we keep the same level of service, but become more efficient or we cut back on spending and remain inefficient. One way or another. What we cannot do is sit back and do nothing.

I feel for poor people. I really do. Problem is, I simply believe that many of the poor people today are that way through their own decisions. Maybe they screwed around in high school. Maybe they had kids too young. Did drugs. Whatever. End result, they are to blame.

The USA provides a pretty generous safety net. We simply cannot afford to keep doing so. Sucks, but maybe now is the time to better yourself and start fighting.

If the government was spending that much money nothing would happen.

A ton of money is already spent, by private companies. It is called the profit motive.

Why do you think the Military invented this shit? Not because the government would pat them on the head. They did it to improve war fighting.

Government is not the fucking answer. Shit, this is supposed to be a site with hungry Mo Fo's. I have never seen such a group of people that think some big omnipresent entity in Washington can magically make everything better by first taking money from people who earned it.

How the fuck do you know how I grew up?

Also, where did I mention not helping poor kids? It is in all of our best interest to see poor kids do well, but we cannot allow parents to use their "poor little kids" as a leverage piece.

The country is broke. Everything needs to be cut. No exceptions.

Without the scholarships you would be only making 40k? Sounds like a decent middle class income. That would allow you to make the next generation a lot better.

Thanks, now I don't support tax credit either.

Oh, BTW, I grew up very poor and didn't have any tax credits to help me and I managed ok.

Only excuse I ever want to hear is "there is no excuse".

I had academic scholarships and went to a private university.

Wealth per capital is only useful if the government taxes it. Our tax revenue does not meet our tax expenditures. We have to borrow to fund the gap. That means we are broke.

ZERO need based help. I worked to pay for my school and worked full time throughout my entire education. In fact, full time to me was 60-70 hours a week while taking 18 credit hours. I have zero empathy.

Please explain to me how the government is going to take advantage of our nations wealth without taxing us more? Last time I checked the US government couldn't get a part time job.

Maybe we should just inflate the dollar and give monopoly money to the Chinese for interest payments. I am sure they would be extremely receptive of that and cheerfully loan us more hard currency.

Please learn to read.

I posted that we either increase efficiency or cut costs. Cut all costs, including defense. No where did I say only social programs should be cut.

I did just fine with my GPA, my network and my social group. I could of worked more to be honest. It is called not being a pussy.

Social life? I didn't realize that my tax dollars were going so you and your friends could drink Four Loko. How about your realize that life isn't fair and suck it up.

Zero Empathy.

@Eok - My story is long and complex, but I went to Syracuse with a nearly free ride. I paid the difference out of pocket. It cost me slightly more than a state school would have, but not 5-10x because of the scholarships.

Back to the OP,

I would argue that there is some correlation between poverty and (a function of) intelligence, perseverance, determination, hard work, and good planning.

Yeah dude, you need to also learn how to argue.

My lack of empathy was not specifically directed at you. Also, both of the schools I went to are well respected and highly ranked when looked at the whole of things. Considering I worked and paid for them all out of my pocket it is also impressive.

Furthermore, if you were poor and went to Harvard you wouldn't of needed government aid. They would have given you a free ride since you they are need blind schools. If you get in you will go regardless.

You're not a dick. You are just a pussy.

Midas, ah you are such a romantic! They don't want to earn anything, they just don't realize how they are benefiting from the social benefits and what would happen to their way of life if the benefits were to dry up. Also poor people tend to be more religious and thus more likely to adopt the beliefs of their spiritual leader, and all the tele-evangelists are republican

Midas, I'm sure you are, as I am, laughing (distressed/disturbed) at how quickly reasonable dialogue is replaced with stereotypes and generalizations. When did it become fashionable for "Intelligent monkeys" to stop listening to different opinions and instead shout that no other opinion is relevant. Come on guys, this is a sharp group...set the example for reasonable discussions...use both hands when catching a fly ball, kids are watching.

Original post by Midas is awesome! For the all the other donkeys arguing against the point made in Midas' post I would suggest doing some serious research into the effects that government handouts, welfare programs, and wealth redistribution initiatives have in keeping those who are poor poor.

I am really going to step out here and make an observation. Due to a really tough time in our lives, my wife and I had to fall back on state sponsored medicine. It was free and I am truly thankful. We have since recovered, are back on our feet and each generate very respectable income that contributes to the tax base of this country.

My observation of the "welfare state" based on medical service is this: the system is bad. Naturally, the Anthony types would point out that you would want it to be bad by design, so as not to incentivize people to use it more. I get that aspect of the argument. What I do not understand is that it was so bad, it became self perpetuating.

In our case we would she would be scheduled for an examination in a very poor city. She did not drive at the time and not able to take a bus there. I would drive her to stated clinic. I could not leave and return to pick her up as the scheduling of service was a complete disaster. Typically, if you were more than 10 minutes late for an appointment your appointment was cancelled (logical). However, if you were on time it would take 1.5-2.5 hours to see a doctor. This system was so bad at addressing people on a timely basis it caused them to lose work or work substantially fewer hours and make them poorer.

My observation of poverty and government service is it is designed like a treadmill. The Anthony types strive to make it worse to get people of it. However, as no person is entirely cold, the programs are continued in a half-hearted manner. The result is the poor get service so poor they can't get on with their lives. This impoverishes them and the cycle continues.

As someone who has used this service and bounced back to be a productive member of society I view government aid much like venture capital. Engage in seven projects: four will fail pathetically, two will break even and one will be a phenomenal success. The success of one will outweigh the losses of the four. We can't save everyone but we all need to admit, sometimes it works.

Anthony I have read time and time again that you support community based programs. All due respect, when I was in a bind it wasn't the community that came through for me. It was the state. When was the last time you helped the homeless guy get an operation, some clothes and a job interview?

Throw as much monkey shit as you want at my name, I stood up for what I believe.

"Anthony Types"

Could you be anymore passive aggressive.

No where do I say we should single out welfare programs and cut them to the bone while everything else is fine. Plain fact is, while medicaid might not be wonderful and roses, you still got help and it was free. If you needed something in an emergency you could have gone to any ER and been helped.

Homeless individuals are a whole different story because they are most of the time mentally incapable of working. This is a whole other discussion so I will avoid it.

If you are poor or lose your job this country has many falls backs and safety nets. You are a perfect example. We give people 2 years of unemployment now. We have free medical for the old, poor, young and sick. We have food stamps, heating subsidies, free or low cost housing, college grants for low income people, etc.

Outside of the government there are charities, food pantries, private college grants and scholarships, community colleges, etc.

I feel that there is a lot of abuse going on in the system. I feel as if some of our benefits are too generous. I feel as if we do too much to support people and not enough to help people. Where is the cruelty or illogic in this?

Also, I rarely mention community based programs. The local township or small city is not set up to provide health care. The Fed and the State take care of these things. My argument is that in this country we provide enough that anyone can go from very poor to lower middle class with some effort. It is not easy, but nothing in life is easy. If you are healthy and born in the USA you have only yourself to blame.

Even more so now with the internet and the abundance of information.

What I find to be so funny is that people keep making excuses for poor people staying poor. When you make excuses for someone you are telling them it is ok to be a failure. I, on the other hand, like to hold people accountable and think that everyone is intelligent and capable of success. This does not mean that everyone will be able to get a masters from Harvard, but most people can handle trade school or an associates. Learning a trade will allow you to make far more than the minimum wage and coupled with basic personal financial knowledge you can have a decent life. This will allow you to raise children better off than you were raised and within a generation you can have well educated children.

But yeah, I am cruel and heartless. I just want people to better themselves and break the cycle of poverty.

I am proud to be an "Anthony type"

My only platform is I want the government to get smaller and more efficient. I grew up poor so I know the trials and tribulations. I have no problem with social programs since I think it benefits us all to have a safety net. My only problem is when that safety net becomes this all encompassing spider web.

Government fucks up more things than it fixes, IMO.

Also, as everyone can see from above, my massive monkey shit was attributed to one petty poster creating 10 fake accounts to throw shit at me. True maturity in action.

anthony is ripping you guys to pieces lol

The American dream is a myth. Odds are stacked against you.

Children from low-income families have only a 1 percent chance of reaching the top 5 percent of the income distribution, versus children of the rich who have about a 22 percent chance. Ø Children born to the middle quintile of parental family income ($42,000 to $54,300) had about the same chance of ending up in a lower quintile than their parents (39.5 percent) as they did of moving to a higher quintile (36.5 percent). Their chances of attaining the top five percentiles of the income distribution were just 1.8 percent. Ø Education, race, health and state of residence are four key channels by which economic status is transmitted from parent to child.

Link to paper: http://www.americanprogress.org/kf/hertz_mobility_analysis.pdf

@Sick Willy - - Please tell me where in the "american dream" does it say you are supposed to go from poor to top 5%?

The American Dream means that everyone has the option of education and advancement, regardless of status. We have no caste system here. We are attempting to level the racial and gender playing field. I want to see how the dream is broken.

I didn't realize that if it was improbable that someone dirty poor couldn't become Bill Gates that you shouldn't try. Get fucking real.

Also, do realize your source is left of center and is trying to make a point that this country is broken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_American_Progress

I didn't realize that making 50-60K in this country wasn't worth getting our of poverty for.

I posted that just to support the point I wanted to make, which is that the "work hard and you can do anything!" mentality that many people have doesn't really seem to be true for most people.

I'm fiscally conservative and hate lazy fucks too but I like looking at data that goes against how I think about the world.

I didn't post that to wave it around as any kind of proof of anything.

I posted that just to support the point I wanted to make, which is that the "work hard and you can do anything!" mentality that many people have doesn't really seem to be true for most people.

I'm fiscally conservative and hate lazy fucks too but I like looking at data that goes against how I think about the world.

I didn't post that to wave it around as any kind of proof of anything or to tell people not to try.

Please support your statement. Regardless of it a certain % of people have an IQ above XYZ. IQ is not a measure of productivity.

Yawn. I am sick and tired of people discounting and disrespecting lower income people.