Q&A with Flake, “Don’t waste your time and energy in a back office role.”

How do I even begin to introduce Flake? More than anything else, Flake is really here for our enjoyment. Sure, maybe Flake is not as helpful as the legendary CompBanker, but that does not mean he is undeserving a Q&A. Within our interview, there are some real, solid lessons about the realities of networking from the back office to score an elusive FO role. Give the man props, because the BO-to-FO move is the epitome of doing the non-target hustle.

Although Flake has previously done an equity research focused Q&A, I wanted to sit down with him to discuss his back-office transition and his feelings about his current ER role. In this Q&A, Flake discusses his background, how to internally network from the back office, and the qualities of a successfully ER associate.

Please, enjoy, and make sure to look out for more of my Q&A’s with our more experienced users.


MF: Let's talk about your background, education, etc. - where did you come from? How did you get your initial Back Office job? What makes you special?

Flake: I went to a non-target state school, and graduated in 2009. How non-target? Well, a few weeks ago I had a meeting with a CEO of one of the companies under my coverage and he asked what school I attended (he was a Wharton UG and MBA man himself). I had to look at the floor, kick around a bit, and mutter the name under my breath.

Where did I come from? Russia, over a decade ago.

I had two summer analyst interviews for my junior year, one was an operations position at the BB that I currently work at, and the other was Blackrock PAG. Looking back, I realize neither of those was great, but I was ecstatic to receive the offers. Given that I was clueless back then, I made my decision based on brand name (I didn’t even know what in the world Blackrock was, seriously).

I thought I was the shit. I thought, “This is it, this is that Finance job that everyone keeps talking about.” I was proud of myself for not even trying and getting those. At $55,000 a year and $10,000 bonus at signing I figured I was well on my way of hitting that $100,000 by 30 goal (seriously, again). If I knew myself back then, I would have slapped the sh*t out of that kid.

What makes me special? The helmet, I guess.

-

MF: How did you know you wanted to work in equity research, if anything?

Flake: I didn’t know I wanted ER until I received my full-time offer at the end of my BB ops summer gig. After doing mindless shit for 10 weeks straight, it finally hit me that there are different divisions within the bank. I realized that operations was not what I wanted and it was definitely not “it”. I still signed the offer given the circumstances.

It was Fall ’08, I believe, and firms were cancelling OCR interviews at the time. I picked up the pace a bit during my senior year and came up with a master plan: 1) work in my BO job at 25% capacity, 2) spend the other 75% learning everything there is to learn about ER and IBD (my passion for both was a result of taking a couple of corporate finance classes during senior year), 3)???, and finally, 4) transition to ER or IB. More on this later…

After reading maybe 4-5 different books on investment banking, becoming addicted to WSJ and Barron’s, and speaking briefly to an ER associate who I met randomly- I knew what I wanted to do.

-

MF: Are you an analyst or associate?

Flake: As you may know, an analyst is more senior than an associate in a sell-side ER hierarchy. This is an external structure that we use for clients, reports, etc. Internally, we still follow the whole Analyst>Associate>VP>Director>MD structure. So my corporate/internal title is a 1st year Associate. Previously, I was an analyst for 2 years (split evenly between ER and BO).

-

MF: You mentioned that you networked your way to an FO associate job (granted some of it was sheer luck)... how would you recommend going about internally networking? What did you learn from your experience of almost getting the boot from networking a little too hard?

Flake: With networking, just be normal. I didn’t want to come off as some try-hard desperate brown-noser, and at the same time I didn’t want to come off self-entitled and cocky. Just be modest, be curious (bi-curious if that’s your thing), ask good questions, let the person talk about himself or herself, and just be able to shoot the sh*t with the person if it comes to that.

Despite my short career and my inexperience, I am still contacted by random people who want to “network” with me. Sure, I meet them. We talk, or try to. Some of them try so hard you can smell their bullshit from a mile away. The others say shit like “so my main concern is that ER is all about writing and modeling, I just don’t want to be stuck looking at an excel sheet all day”. Yes, valid question, but you don’t have to sound like a dick when phrasing it.

You can find my detailed BO to FO story in that Q&A thread I started in December. What I learned: if you want something, you go and get it. All good things require sacrifices; otherwise they are called hand-outs (occupy my ass). If I could go back to the BO, I would do the exact same thing.

-

MF: Talk to us about how to use a company directory?

Flake: Using the directory should be easy. I don’t know how it works at other firms, but I can filter mine by division, title, team, etc, which made it relatively easy to find the people you wanted. The one thing I fucked up on was cold emailing a tech analyst in SF, asking him to grab lunch/coffee. I’m in New York. So just pay attention. When you’re excited to email someone you can make a dumb mistake like that.

Lastly, if ER is your thing, you should have access to your bank’s research reports. Form your questions around those notes when emailing an analyst or an associate. Don’t ask obvious sh*t either; get a little creative with it to show that you are knowledgeable and interested in that sector. Otherwise, I will just attach a copy of my report and tell you to “look on page 3.”

-

MF: What is more important, a superior technical knowledge or superior amicable personality?

Flake: I would never isolate one of those and say that’s the most important. It is a mix of both…also sex appeal helps. For example, I would attribute 90% of my ER transition to my handsomeness. But seriously, you do need both though.

Technical:

1) Helps instill confidence in your clients and establish your credibility as a reliable source of information
2) Having something like the CFA charter should help with your potential move to the buy side
3) Knowing your sh*t will also make your analyst more comfortable with giving you greater responsibility. Your analyst has to be confident in your analysis and at some point the analyst shouldn’t feel like he or she needs to hold your hand.

Amicable personality:

1) ER analysts are not anti-social and they are not geeks or nerds or whatever I’ve seen thrown around occasionally
2) you need be personable when interacting with big institutional accounts and c-level executives of the industry that you cover.

-

MF: What grinds your gears the most when it comes to daily interaction with people (be it supervisors or subordinates)?

Flake: I don’t like people who act self-entitled. I don’t like anyone who constantly argues and tries to convince you they are right, even though they have been wrong the previous 10 times in a row. I don’t like people who get offended easily or can’t handle constructive criticism. I like modesty. I like someone I can grab a drink with and talk about anything, including WORK. Yes, work. Just because you hate your job doesn’t mean I hate mine and should shy away from discussing it in a social setting.

I have one subordinate, if you will; he is a “research assistant”. The thing I hate about him is his lack of attention to detail and his inability to take ownership of what I tell him to do. I feel like he does shit just to finish it, he doesn’t care about the end result and everything he hands over to me is sloppy.

My boss on the other hand, is exactly the type of person I just described. I can talk to him about anything and everything. He is easy-going but he can be strict and he can be a dick if the timing is right and shit needs to get done. That’s what I usually look for in a man.

-

MF: You're one of the people that transitioned from Operations to the Front Office, what advice would you give someone who is trying to do the same thing?

Flake: I may be biased, but don’t waste your time and energy on excelling in your back office or middle office role if your goal is to move as soon as possible. If you are one of those people that thinks your current boss in BO/MO will “refer” you to that banking MD if you work your ass off, you are kind of wrong. That shit doesn’t happen.

Focus on networking and studying (be it for the CFA, GMAT, or just reading relevant books/news). Don’t spend too much time working there. If you are still in a back office role two years after you graduated it is time to pack your stuff and go to business school…that’s just my opinion of course.

What I do now is not related to my BO position at all.

-

MF: What is the most positive part of ER and what is the most negative?

Flake: I discussed most of this in my Q&A thread as well.

My favorite part is that it’s not all grunt work. Even when a client uses me for informational purposes and doesn’t really care about my Buy/Sell/Hold rating (no one does really), I still feel like my opinion is valued and sought after. Every time I hear “Thanks for your time and insight, Flake, very helpful” I get a kick out of that.

When was the last time someone who’s twice your age, who is making probably 15-20x of what you make a year, and who is managing billions of dollars, thanked you for your “insight” or your “time?”

What’s the most negative thing about my job? They could pay me more money.

-

MF: What are some basic qualities specifically needed to be successful at an ER job?

Flake: Confidence. Attention to detail. You must have a passion for your sector and the markets (otherwise you’re just bored). Have the ability to write well, and being selectively direct and concise (not my best quality).

-

MF: Will you be attending the WSO conference?

Flake: I have my ticket to the WSO conference. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, I might dedicate that Saturday to a catnap.

-

MF: Why do you feel like it is important to give back in the realm of solid advice to the WSO community?

Flake: I didn’t even know WSO existed before I started in ER… so I really don’t have anyone here to thank for anything. I never even thought of going on an Internet forum to seek advice on my career or networking, but I sure wish I did. It would have made my transition a lot easier, and more importantly; I would not have felt like I was the only one trying to take that leap. Also, I would like to give back occasionally in return for Patrick letting me troll WSO 90% of the time.

-

MF: I usually open up the end of the Q&A to say anything you may wish (just be nice).

Flake: I just want to give a few shout outs to the people who keep me entertained on WSO:

Nouveau Richie, shorttheworld, heister, Determined, Whiskey5, duffmt6, ekimlacks, WellPlayed, Midas Mulligan Magoo (RIP), swagon, TonyPerkis, malvvar, rothyman, and ah. If I forgot someone, I’m not sorry.


Check my past Q&A’s:

Heister (HF)- My Total Worth is North of $50 Million

Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 1
Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 2

CompBanker (PE) Part 1
CompBanker (PE) Part 2

 

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“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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"Rage, rage against the dying of the light." - DT
 

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Array
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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WSO Content & Social Media. Follow us: Linkedin, IG, Facebook, Twitter.
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Unde vel sit eos eius. Consequatur eum qui ut repellat molestiae dolores. In deserunt enim porro qui. Dolores veritatis eius veritatis quis ut.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Libero aut facere velit vero aut ut. Eligendi numquam eligendi possimus ut est. Labore laborum earum blanditiis omnis modi sunt dolor. Voluptas maiores error dolorem et eveniet.

Explicabo ullam iure et veniam in. Non quisquam et officia in ratione minus. Fuga omnis qui ex. Dolores necessitatibus illo non suscipit qui.

Quod animi quia aspernatur non vero quis necessitatibus. Est ducimus et quod natus id.

Nihil deserunt quia porro sunt. Debitis harum nesciunt quos ut voluptas dolores. Qui sed omnis qui id.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Sunt quia consequuntur reiciendis repellendus autem. Repellendus impedit quam nihil. Laboriosam quo quis fugiat dolorem ad omnis blanditiis vitae. Doloremque ipsa odit excepturi perferendis accusamus rerum sapiente. Recusandae facilis eligendi voluptatem praesentium repudiandae esse non.

Explicabo in natus ex aspernatur accusamus autem soluta. Ut debitis dolor dolores alias ea ipsa sit. Id vero ut iure dolor consequatur quaerat ab. Assumenda in distinctio tempora in.

Eos dignissimos voluptatibus et delectus. Placeat nostrum omnis qui ea aspernatur recusandae aut. Provident sunt recusandae voluptas impedit quis vitae eum animi. Totam facilis atque qui.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Eum et blanditiis quia laboriosam. Fugit placeat necessitatibus asperiores aliquid officiis quam.

Odio esse magni voluptatem ut eligendi. Maxime dolorem eum ab dolorem aut quam tenetur et. Ut accusamus inventore cum minus. Iusto ex molestiae est accusantium necessitatibus. Sit dolores dolorem fugit est incidunt.

Iure doloremque voluptatum natus eligendi. Officiis rerum enim ad. Autem consequatur id aut expedita. Laboriosam fugiat reprehenderit cupiditate deserunt.

Alias quod doloribus incidunt. Dolorum ut id porro quam corporis ullam deserunt eum. Aut nesciunt vel et veritatis magnam laudantium provident. Molestiae sit id similique beatae cupiditate. Et consequatur ut ab mollitia qui.

 

Hic vitae illum accusamus. Sequi qui dolorem odio repellendus nostrum mollitia fugit. Dolore saepe id ipsum non. Et et suscipit quibusdam sit. Aut vitae numquam quidem autem ea repellat.

Est rerum et debitis repellendus. Praesentium sit dolorem voluptates. Consequatur dolorum qui eius. Ullam sint dolorum et sunt id qui assumenda. Omnis exercitationem in eum blanditiis quia.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Qui voluptatibus qui sed odit. Quod exercitationem ipsa voluptas perferendis earum sapiente. Eum deserunt voluptatem unde est quo ipsa. Eveniet aliquam dignissimos aperiam dolorem alias sapiente quo totam. Iste nemo dolor quisquam magni neque. Odio ducimus maiores quis optio impedit id enim.

Reiciendis eos vero tempora nisi tenetur. Aut minima consequuntur excepturi. Consequatur fuga ipsa iusto rerum.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 

Repellat quis commodi non soluta. Fugiat quo et vel deleniti doloribus minus officiis consequatur. Deleniti non similique debitis omnis ducimus quibusdam nobis. Est est omnis nesciunt molestiae necessitatibus id nobis. Perspiciatis similique natus saepe sequi.

Maiores facilis numquam in. Rem iure amet rerum voluptas facilis accusamus. Et saepe expedita ut ratione nostrum omnis ipsum.

Ut ipsum dolor consequatur sint exercitationem velit accusantium. Nesciunt ratione id omnis dolores.

 
Best Response

Occaecati ratione adipisci sit omnis cumque quisquam est sit. Et maiores ipsum pariatur aut tempora.

Praesentium accusantium qui consequatur iure occaecati. Sed sequi non dicta vel est. Doloremque vel nemo et fugiat error nesciunt placeat quibusdam. Nulla nisi eaque maiores dolore qui.

Mollitia ea maiores quibusdam temporibus. Molestiae hic asperiores iure porro eaque et quod. Facere minus dolores quaerat nemo. Neque delectus nihil nobis ut nobis sed magnam voluptas. Atque omnis est quo incidunt aut. Et molestiae voluptatem quia amet aperiam rerum.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Pariatur qui est voluptatem aliquam est eos est. Voluptas omnis dolore provident eligendi consequatur. Vitae accusantium iusto impedit et ad voluptas. Enim eligendi voluptas est necessitatibus. Et quas voluptas vel et suscipit. Voluptas deleniti a et autem libero molestias.

Eum provident assumenda nihil quis. Officia dolores fugit sequi dolores perspiciatis.

Provident blanditiis corrupti hic nemo veniam. Eveniet aut aut facilis quibusdam aperiam. Minus et laborum praesentium tempora eos iusto. Officiis sit consequatur est sed architecto. Omnis reprehenderit quas aut velit vel vitae a non. Libero voluptate sit eum.

 

Esse libero repellat earum porro quasi. Inventore repellat eveniet a veniam quaerat et. Vitae sed consectetur occaecati vitae mollitia.

Odit quo earum in et pariatur sint. Nam ut mollitia nihil quibusdam dolores repellendus suscipit. Non suscipit minus magni optio distinctio hic. Quis voluptas maxime quo qui perferendis illum vel. Eum nobis molestiae exercitationem beatae officia itaque non.

Commodi vitae provident autem et impedit corporis. Vel culpa consequatur officia vel qui. Earum molestiae non nihil iusto ipsa laudantium. Corporis inventore nostrum odit aut laborum nihil magni. Voluptates ullam aut facere sit tempora cumque voluptatem. Eos ea dolorem mollitia amet sapiente id. Ut est sit sint dignissimos veniam est sint.

Suscipit quas laboriosam omnis labore et voluptatibus. Est voluptatem iure quod a quam. Laborum veniam omnis ex aut laboriosam vel non. Dolor placeat quas numquam officia.

 

Cumque est officia assumenda. Tempore est culpa accusantium.

Impedit voluptate molestias ex incidunt vitae error eveniet. Qui qui distinctio repellat labore provident deserunt dolorem. Ad accusantium et corporis quidem. Alias quisquam ad ipsum ab reiciendis accusamus. Sunt odit illo sed magni et voluptas.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Deleniti aperiam harum officiis sapiente. Minima dolores ipsa explicabo eos. Molestiae ullam veniam saepe corrupti nobis omnis. Voluptas recusandae nemo quia voluptatem exercitationem. Vitae qui laboriosam voluptates exercitationem et adipisci. Aspernatur molestiae quis voluptas velit.

Tenetur voluptas accusamus voluptatem non nesciunt aut veritatis. Ut quia facere aut dolorem nostrum.

 

Accusantium enim dignissimos commodi ut omnis. Iusto vitae maxime molestiae. Ut cumque eum repellat et rerum eum deleniti qui. Molestias autem eveniet accusantium velit. Aperiam aut velit voluptas impedit ab dicta.

Eius accusantium non repellendus quaerat quae est rerum. Ratione impedit expedita sint. Praesentium occaecati impedit repudiandae possimus quos illo. Nulla repellendus laboriosam numquam reprehenderit.

Nisi ad harum eos aut molestias quibusdam porro. In sit repellat dolor numquam est eius possimus voluptatem. Aut omnis porro officia possimus. Provident est nulla eum autem dicta ea.

Repellendus a aut sed cumque ipsam vel. Facere esse quis molestiae voluptatem. Dicta quis animi sint impedit accusantium omnis. Explicabo ab nulla eos. Optio est voluptatem magnam consequuntur. Omnis velit delectus sint.

 

Aut sint non vitae eos. Et assumenda fugit neque atque voluptatibus dolorum consequatur illum. Et tempore accusantium sapiente est sunt. Eum facere aspernatur et neque est. Assumenda cum tenetur et maiores quasi fugiat optio.

Architecto facere in sit reprehenderit aut. Voluptas qui quia reprehenderit qui accusantium. Iste quidem repellendus qui possimus ullam nam.

Tempora rerum ea incidunt animi rerum quia. Optio consequatur illum veniam in consequatur repudiandae voluptates. Aspernatur explicabo voluptatem voluptates deleniti. Necessitatibus maiores molestiae atque suscipit molestias.

 

Expedita error qui reiciendis esse. Incidunt sit distinctio delectus ut ut minima modi temporibus. Rem earum dolore repudiandae aspernatur. Similique explicabo et ea velit officiis. Ea voluptas consequatur aspernatur perferendis. Ullam sed aut dolorum temporibus. Aut quae suscipit rem sapiente sed quaerat.

Est quibusdam iusto repellendus ea dolores quod suscipit. Odit aut nisi molestiae voluptatem. Odio voluptas est eaque iste qui. Quod at et perferendis vero nihil sapiente nobis. Totam voluptas cupiditate aut iste dolores.

 

Totam non officiis quam quidem quae eos doloremque. Earum quaerat qui cumque. Facilis enim est excepturi sit ducimus. Et molestias quam consequatur qui.

Velit adipisci id voluptas. Iure alias labore saepe dolores est dolorum quis. Omnis veritatis at aliquid repudiandae quaerat quae. Qui aut deserunt reprehenderit omnis minima et.

Non neque ab debitis voluptate. Et officiis et deleniti dignissimos deleniti. Dolores incidunt natus corrupti fuga delectus.

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