UPDATE: Operations: Best Decision I've Ever Made

Anonymous Monkey's picture
Rank: Chimp | banana points 0

This was me two short months ago.

I would like to start by apologizing to the entire WSO community for trying to argue with what decades of Banking wisdom had taught the finance community; as it turns out, Ops is fucking shit!

However, in an attempt to retain some sense of pride I still disagree on the reason why it is shit. In my opinion, its not the lack of prestige (I'm not that big into ego trips) or the mind numbing work (from what I've heard IBD can get very monotonous; to me, its the lack of structure.

One of the things that has always attracted me to IBD is the fact that, no matter what level you're at, the finish line isn't far ahead which gives you something to sprint for. With what I've witnessed in Ops, most FT'ers have no idea when its coming up, and, for some unlucky bastards, there seems to be a very very long way left.

This affected me profoundly in the way I worked during the internship, and I'm not even FT (thank God).
If I were to be, it would be this feeling of being in purgatory which would drag me into incompetency, slowing down as the finish line draws further and further into the distance.

Fuck that. Time to start networking.

Comments (60)

Jun 29, 2012

Once a joke, always a joke?

Jun 29, 2012

I mean its a job dude. Probably should have asked yourself how badly you need income before you bailed, bcuz its a shit ass time to get FO.

GBS

    • 1
Jun 29, 2012

www.operationsoasis.com

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for the update btw

"Every man should lose a battle in his youth, so he does not lose a war when he is old"

Jun 29, 2012

Get on the directory and start networking NOW. Go out, get fucking HAMMERED tonight, get a good nights sleep, and then start working towards the original goal.

Shut the fuck up and do it.

Jun 29, 2012
UFOinsider:

Get on the directory and start networking NOW. Go out, get fucking HAMMERED tonight, get a good nights sleep, and then start working towards the original goal.

Shut the fuck up and do it.

+1
you're young dude. you haven't crossed the Rubicon yet

Jun 29, 2012
keensetofpeepers:
UFOinsider:

Get on the directory and start networking NOW. Go out, get fucking HAMMERED tonight, get a good nights sleep, and then start working towards the original goal.

Shut the fuck up and do it.

+1
you're young dude. you haven't crossed the Rubicon yet

Im 32, why do I feel like I'm 80?

Feb 1, 2014

Delete

Jun 30, 2012

What's this finish line business you're talking about?

Feb 1, 2014

in before the shitshow commences

    • 1
Feb 1, 2014

Are you fucking kidding me with these posts? GTFO. I did ops for 5 months and literally was ready to quit 2 weeks in.

Wow man, this is some troll garbage.

Feb 1, 2014
TNA:

Are you fucking kidding me with these posts? GTFO. I did ops for 5 months and literally was ready to quit 2 weeks in.

Wow man, this is some troll garbage.

you're right I'd much rather run a mediocre website that no one cares about...

    • 5
Feb 1, 2014

This is gonna be good.

Feb 1, 2014
AQM:

This is gonna be good.

hahahahah, best.

Feb 1, 2014

No one does banking because they want to stay there for the rest of their career. They do it for the exit opps it provides. Ops provides few exit opps, hence it's reputation on this board.

Your argument is like saying that no one can claim being a garbageman is a shitty living unless they've tried it. If you're content with Ops then you probably aren't a FO type anyway. Enjoy.

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    • 3
Feb 1, 2014

Listen a job is a job, fine. Also, I think ragging on ops people is unwarranted. But trying to sell it like it is a great choice is bullshit. The job is fucking boring and utterly unappreciated. Do Ops simply to realize what life is like if you don't put the effort in to get what you want.

Interning in ops is like sticking your dick in a box of razors. Both will teach you vividly what not to do again.

Feb 1, 2014

OP what are you smoking? I want to smoke that joint as well.

Best Response
Feb 1, 2014

Sounds good. Accept your full time offer there. We'll be seeing you in 4-5 years as you seek advice on going to b-school, taking the CFA exams, and/or committing suicide.

    • 3
Feb 1, 2014

OP I RESPECT YOU FOR WHO YOU ARE AND NOT YOUR JOB TITLE

Feb 1, 2014

Weird, someone enjoys ops?

Feb 1, 2014

I did a week-long spring internship years ago and hated it.
My friend worked in Ops hate the nature of the job as well, though he did have a very relaxed working environment.

    • 1
Feb 1, 2014

I would argue it matters more what people perceive Ops to be like (shit), not what it actually entails..

Feb 1, 2014

Can someone explain to me how BO is so much more boring than FO, which according to people here is just editing PPTs and the occasional excel model?

Feb 1, 2014

lol 5 monkey shits? I interned in BO tech at a BB and I came to the conclusion that it's (referring to tech) not that bad. My supervisor was a 27 year old dude, chill as fuck, had a doorman apartment in the upper east, didn't have to come to the office on Fridays, and made (what appeared to be) a good living. Sure he wasn't getting $100k bonuses and having starry-eyed 21 year old college kids massage his ballsack, but he def didn't have to worry about money. Only one problem: the work is mind-numbingly boring

I can't speak for ops though. All I know is that they got paid worse than us lol.

EDIT: Also he told me that they could have as many vacation days as they wanted as long as they got their shit done. He took 4-5 weeks off that year. Imagine doing that in IBD or S&T.

    • 1
Jun 29, 2012

Great points. Just wanted to say one thing:

Keep your eye on the prize.

Feb 1, 2014

Operations: The best decision I've never made

    • 1
Jun 29, 2012
Anonymous Monkey:

Plenty of time to work when I'm old

I think this is the root cause of your opinion....YOU'RE SETTLING FOR THE EASY OPTION. When I was in the seminary, the master of the school told us every morning "We do now the things other people don't want to do, so that later on we do things they can't do. Pay your dues up front.

Anonymous Monkey:

compared to the drubbing it regularly recieves; almost always from people who never worked there

I worked there. It sucks. You'll figure out the job in a few weeks, likely less, and then it's ALL ROUTINE. The best people there are trying to get out, the average just treat it like "some fucking job" and the rest are retarded. Also: you will never rise past a certain point in the company, PERIOD. If you're ambitious and smart and want to work in finance, the best thing BO is good for is a back door into the company when all else has faild. There are exceptions: IT BO is much different, as is ops analysis, as those positions oversee optimization, so if you must do back office, try for those positions.

JDawg:

EDIT: Also he told me that they could have as many vacation days as they wanted as long as they got their shit done. He took 4-5 weeks off that year. Imagine doing that in IBD or S&T.

This is the one thing I envy, and I know BO/MO folks who always seem to be going on vacation. Unfortunately, at this point in the economic cycle, banks are running a tighter ship, so don't look forward to this. Personally, I'm trying to figure out what post MBA job offers the best work life balance (I'm doing this shit for a career) so it's a little different, but you're a 20 year old kid: what the hell else are you going to do with your time? I entered industry at 29 and you FEEL the years weighing on me....do it now while you're still energetic, it gets harder and harder to "do over" and if you take the easy route now and wake up years down the road thinking "fuck, I need to get my ass in gear" you will not get any sympathy from me or anyone here.

Feb 1, 2014
Anonymous Monkey:

If I can give one piece of advice to people who are in the situation I was, I'd say go for it! It's very easy to focus one this one prestigious goal so much that everything else seems like shit. Ops (internships, anyway) are nowhere near as bad as people say.

Here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, you are the sucker.

    • 2
Feb 1, 2014
bullbythehorns:
Anonymous Monkey:

If I can give one piece of advice to people who are in the situation I was, I'd say go for it! It's very easy to focus one this one prestigious goal so much that everything else seems like shit. Ops (internships, anyway) are nowhere near as bad as people say.

I lol'd.

Feb 1, 2014

I might be doing ops this summer. My main question is how hard it is to transition from summer ops --> AM/PWM at a BB. I assume if I got into the investment management ops group it would be easier, but I honestly have no clue. Seems almost taboo at the firm to ask.

Feb 1, 2014
camspin:

I might be doing ops this summer. My main question is how hard it is to transition from summer ops --> AM/PWM at a BB. I assume if I got into the investment management ops group it would be easier, but I honestly have no clue. Seems almost taboo at the firm to ask.

as someone who did Asset Management ops at a BB let me say this. I have seen many try to go to the business side, only a few succeed (usually because of 2+ years of good relationships with the people they support). And even then, the roles that I have seen people go to are more as trading assistants (those who book the trades in the internal systems) and in execution trader roles, I've never seen the move into anything analytical.

Now the good thing about you is that you are only doing it for a summer role, which means that you can basically approach FT FO recruiting with the "i've tried BO but it just wasn't for me, im interested in A, B, & C instead" approach. So as long as you know that its only for the summer and you don't have any FO gigs lined up, I'd take it, work your ass off to get your reputation as a go getter in line and try for FO next year.

Jun 29, 2012

Disregard previous post.

OP, plenty of people have done BO internships -> FO, you need to (1) figure out if you want FO and (2) go about it differently.

Feb 1, 2014

This guy deleted his account over some monkey shit ?

Feb 1, 2014

Also another few comments based on what people are posting in the thread.

In my time in ops, I have seen people from all sorts of backgrounds, of course you see the people that just didn't make the cut for FO jobs, and yes there are people who treat it like a day to day grind to pay the bills, there are people that use it as a stepping stone to something better. But there are definitely people that do enjoy the more laid back atmosphere and the life style that goes with it.

As far as how boring the job is, it depends on what you do. Not all Ops jobs are created equal. I've been on projects where I wanted to kill myself, but I have also been in roles that were genuinely interesting and enhanced my knowledge of a specific sub-sector and product etc...

Final thought: "best decision you have ever made"? Dude....I mean congrats on the job and all, but best....ever...comon now.

Feb 1, 2014

if you want to get to the FO, i would highly recommend doing it before you start working full time. Taking a BO internship at a BB is no where near the end of the world (path i took to the FO), and putting the BB experience on your resume will help (if you phrase it the right way), starting there full time however will put you in a very tough spot in terms of advancing your career, that is just a fact.

Also have no expectation of being able to interiew for a front office role at the same BB you are currently interning at, they will treat you like dog shit because in ops that is what you are unfortuntely in the grand scheme of the finance community, it might be an unfair label but for every somewhat cool group in ops, there is a group called static data that works in jersey city or worst some foreign country......and those are the groups that people think of when they think of ops.

People might tell you otherwise, but I would even argue its not even worth it to waste your time networking w/ FO guys at the same BB, start elsewhere, alumni at other firms, smaller firms. BB's have hundreds of interns for every division, and HR will laugh in your face if you tell them you want to move to the FO (think about how many slobs tell them this on a daily basis). If you want some more specific advice, feel free to pm me, because this is a process i went through and know quite well, otherwise good luck.

Jun 29, 2012
mperit01:

for every somewhat cool group in ops, there is a group called static data that works in jersey city or worst some foreign country......and those are the groups that people think of when they think of ops.

Some firms even contract out the really menial stuff like data entry. The part of these internships that's the most useful is having "something something FINANCIAL / BANK something something" for networking purposes, and yes, it's much easier to just jump ship at the big firms. Consider doing some time in MM / boutiques, as their structure/hiring is much more fluid

trailmix8:

As far as how boring the job is, it depends on what you do.

Yes, your job in particular was one of the more in-depth positions and I never fully understood this until you posted about it here. I'm only guessing, but this type of role is much more appealing to bschools/grad in general than other ops positions? Or do they not even know the difference?

Feb 1, 2014

Taking a back office job was the worst career move in life. The work was mind numbingly dull and the advancement is limited. The longer you stay in ops, the more difficult it is to get out. I knew people in my office, trying for 5+ years to move to the front office with no success. Also with the capabilities of automation software and outsourcing, the job security is gone as an algorithm can make you redundant any day.

I quit after six months because I could not stand it, but now the experience has had me blackballed in the industry as an ops guy (not smart enough to be in front office). Thankfully, I have some entrepreneurial opportunities to pursue in and outside of finance. For any prospective monkeys out there, avoid ops.

    • 1
Feb 1, 2014

I like how all the Ops people on this board throw me money shit, when you know it's true.

    • 2
Jun 30, 2012

I spent three years in ops (custody actually, it's even worse) and it was an absolute nightmare. The work was mind-numbingly boring, I learned basically nothing, and I was completely on my own as far as staying intellectually stimulating. There's a reason I have so many bananas: I had nothing to do at work.

I made a comfortable living, had lots of friends, and strolled into the office at 10:30, basically working 2 to 3 hours a day while going on hour+ lunch breaks every day. And it wasn't worth it. Time is indeed priceless, and you can't spend it in an office dicking around while you wait to run the same macros day after day after day.

    • 1
Feb 1, 2014

"I spent three years in ops (custody actually, it's even worse) and it was an absolute nightmare. The work was mind-numbingly boring, I learned basically nothing, and I was completely on my own as far as staying intellectually stimulating. There's a reason I have so many bananas: I had nothing to do at work.

I made a comfortable living, had lots of friends, and strolled into the office at 10:30, basically working 2 to 3 hours a day while going on hour+ lunch breaks every day. And it wasn't worth it. Time is indeed priceless, and you can't spend it in an office dicking around while you wait to run the same macros day after day after day."

Interested to know... how much coin can you earn in BB ops? Was your position in BB?

I mean, look at the positives here, if you have so much free time on your hands and if you earn good coin, why cant you study the CFA at work, start a small business on the side and or trade the stock market? (not sure if BO has a trading blacklist?)

Feb 1, 2014

It's cool, bro's love hatin' on me lol

Jun 29, 2012
TNA:

It's cool, bro's love hatin' on me lol

Potatos gonna potate

Feb 1, 2014

Wtf? Why does OP always have the same banana count as me? It's freaking me out!

It's like another Boreed in a parallel universe who fucked up and got stuck in the BO. Aaaaaaahh!!!!

Feb 1, 2014

AAAAH! His banana count changed to 555 as I posted the above!!! Fuck off and die parallel Boreed! Go rot in operations and leave me alone bish!

:'(

Jun 29, 2012
Boreed:

AAAAH! His banana count changed to 555 as I posted the above!!! Fuck off and die parallel Boreed! Go rot in operations and leave me alone bish!

:'(

I noticed the same thing, it has my banana count as well. COOL, I just found another hole in the system to jack more freaking SB's from. Someone please tell Patrick, I can't stop myself: two hour cooling period and then I'm going for the kill.....

Feb 1, 2014

OPS is just a misspelling of POS..

Feb 1, 2014

in ops do people wear suits?? and is it awkward when you're in an elevator with FO people and you are the first one to get off on a different floor??

    • 1
Jun 30, 2012

Is it awkward when the other kids in your high school ask you what you're doing on a Wall Street forum?

    • 1
Feb 1, 2014

I gave this kid 4-5 years in his initial post, only took 2 months. With that said, it will take you about 4-5 years to get out of it now as your future will most likely include grad school.

Way to blow your load early.

www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/operations-the-best-d...

Jul 6, 2012

Thanks for the update. I was considering taking an internship in OPS before as well. Dodged a bullet there eh

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." - IlliniProgrammer