UPDATE: Operations: Best Decision I've Ever Made
This was me two short months ago.
I would like to start by apologizing to the entire WSO community for trying to argue with what decades of Banking wisdom had taught the finance community; as it turns out, Ops is fucking shit!
However, in an attempt to retain some sense of pride I still disagree on the reason why it is shit. In my opinion, its not the lack of prestige (I'm not that big into ego trips) or the mind numbing work (from what I've heard IBD can get very monotonous; to me, its the lack of structure.
One of the things that has always attracted me to IBD is the fact that, no matter what level you're at, the finish line isn't far ahead which gives you something to sprint for. With what I've witnessed in Ops, most FT'ers have no idea when its coming up, and, for some unlucky bastards, there seems to be a very very long way left.
This affected me profoundly in the way I worked during the internship, and I'm not even FT (thank God).
If I were to be, it would be this feeling of being in purgatory which would drag me into incompetency, slowing down as the finish line draws further and further into the distance.
Fuck that. Time to start networking.
Once a joke, always a joke?
I mean its a job dude. Probably should have asked yourself how badly you need income before you bailed, bcuz its a shit ass time to get FO.
www.operationsoasis.com
EDIT: Oh, and thanks for the update btw
Get on the directory and start networking NOW. Go out, get fucking HAMMERED tonight, get a good nights sleep, and then start working towards the original goal.
Shut the fuck up and do it.
+1 you're young dude. you haven't crossed the Rubicon yet
Delete
What's this finish line business you're talking about?
Operations: The Best Decision I've Ever Made (Originally Posted: 05/02/2012)
Some time ago, I accepted an Internship in Operations at a BB.
I thought that having a BB's name on my resume would, in some way, help me with getting an IBD Internship Junior year, but I was quickly shot down, both on this site and by people I talked to. One guy put his head in his hands. A lot of what they said didn't even relate to my future opportunities; they told me I'd hate the work. I was pissed at myself for accepting (even though my other IB internships were shot, I think I could have managed something in CF or PWM).
A few months ago I started and it soon grew on me that I hadn't fucked things up half as much as I had been led to believe; here's why:
I’m not bad-mouthing FO; I'm still looking to leverage this into FO because I want to experience the work and the money, compare it to this, and decide if it’s for me. Regardless, I'm happy that, for the past few months, I've had time to relax and spend the money I've made. Plenty of time to work when I'm old.
If I can give one piece of advice to people who are in the situation I was, I'd say go for it! It's very easy to focus one this one prestigious goal so much that everything else seems like shit. Ops (internships, anyway) are nowhere near as bad as people say.
(I know a lot of this stuff has been said about Ops before, but its a drop in the ocean compared to the drubbing it regularly recieves; almost always from people who never worked there.)
in before the shitshow commences
Are you fucking kidding me with these posts? GTFO. I did ops for 5 months and literally was ready to quit 2 weeks in.
Wow man, this is some troll garbage.
you're right I'd much rather run a mediocre website that no one cares about...
This is gonna be good.
hahahahah, best.
No one does banking because they want to stay there for the rest of their career. They do it for the exit opps it provides. Ops provides few exit opps, hence it's reputation on this board.
Your argument is like saying that no one can claim being a garbageman is a shitty living unless they've tried it. If you're content with Ops then you probably aren't a FO type anyway. Enjoy.
Listen a job is a job, fine. Also, I think ragging on ops people is unwarranted. But trying to sell it like it is a great choice is bullshit. The job is fucking boring and utterly unappreciated. Do Ops simply to realize what life is like if you don't put the effort in to get what you want.
Interning in ops is like sticking your dick in a box of razors. Both will teach you vividly what not to do again.
OP what are you smoking? I want to smoke that joint as well.
Sounds good. Accept your full time offer there. We'll be seeing you in 4-5 years as you seek advice on going to b-school, taking the CFA exams, and/or committing suicide.
OP I RESPECT YOU FOR WHO YOU ARE AND NOT YOUR JOB TITLE
Weird, someone enjoys ops?
I did a week-long spring internship years ago and hated it. My friend worked in Ops hate the nature of the job as well, though he did have a very relaxed working environment.
I would argue it matters more what people perceive Ops to be like (shit), not what it actually entails..
Can someone explain to me how BO is so much more boring than FO, which according to people here is just editing PPTs and the occasional excel model?
lol 5 monkey shits? I interned in BO tech at a BB and I came to the conclusion that it's (referring to tech) not that bad. My supervisor was a 27 year old dude, chill as fuck, had a doorman apartment in the upper east, didn't have to come to the office on Fridays, and made (what appeared to be) a good living. Sure he wasn't getting $100k bonuses and having starry-eyed 21 year old college kids massage his ballsack, but he def didn't have to worry about money. Only one problem: the work is mind-numbingly boring
I can't speak for ops though. All I know is that they got paid worse than us lol.
EDIT: Also he told me that they could have as many vacation days as they wanted as long as they got their shit done. He took 4-5 weeks off that year. Imagine doing that in IBD or S&T.
Great points. Just wanted to say one thing:
Keep your eye on the prize.
Operations: The best decision I've never made
http://www.youtube.com/embed/H9kpTvm6CYA
I lol'd.
I might be doing ops this summer. My main question is how hard it is to transition from summer ops --> AM/PWM at a BB. I assume if I got into the investment management ops group it would be easier, but I honestly have no clue. Seems almost taboo at the firm to ask.
as someone who did Asset Management ops at a BB let me say this. I have seen many try to go to the business side, only a few succeed (usually because of 2+ years of good relationships with the people they support). And even then, the roles that I have seen people go to are more as trading assistants (those who book the trades in the internal systems) and in execution trader roles, I've never seen the move into anything analytical.
Now the good thing about you is that you are only doing it for a summer role, which means that you can basically approach FT FO recruiting with the "i've tried BO but it just wasn't for me, im interested in A, B, & C instead" approach. So as long as you know that its only for the summer and you don't have any FO gigs lined up, I'd take it, work your ass off to get your reputation as a go getter in line and try for FO next year.
Disregard previous post.
OP, plenty of people have done BO internships -> FO, you need to (1) figure out if you want FO and (2) go about it differently.
This guy deleted his account over some monkey shit ?
Also another few comments based on what people are posting in the thread.
In my time in ops, I have seen people from all sorts of backgrounds, of course you see the people that just didn't make the cut for FO jobs, and yes there are people who treat it like a day to day grind to pay the bills, there are people that use it as a stepping stone to something better. But there are definitely people that do enjoy the more laid back atmosphere and the life style that goes with it.
As far as how boring the job is, it depends on what you do. Not all Ops jobs are created equal. I've been on projects where I wanted to kill myself, but I have also been in roles that were genuinely interesting and enhanced my knowledge of a specific sub-sector and product etc...
Final thought: "best decision you have ever made"? Dude....I mean congrats on the job and all, but best....ever...comon now.
if you want to get to the FO, i would highly recommend doing it before you start working full time. Taking a BO internship at a BB is no where near the end of the world (path i took to the FO), and putting the BB experience on your resume will help (if you phrase it the right way), starting there full time however will put you in a very tough spot in terms of advancing your career, that is just a fact.
Also have no expectation of being able to interiew for a front office role at the same BB you are currently interning at, they will treat you like dog shit because in ops that is what you are unfortuntely in the grand scheme of the finance community, it might be an unfair label but for every somewhat cool group in ops, there is a group called static data that works in jersey city or worst some foreign country......and those are the groups that people think of when they think of ops.
People might tell you otherwise, but I would even argue its not even worth it to waste your time networking w/ FO guys at the same BB, start elsewhere, alumni at other firms, smaller firms. BB's have hundreds of interns for every division, and HR will laugh in your face if you tell them you want to move to the FO (think about how many slobs tell them this on a daily basis). If you want some more specific advice, feel free to pm me, because this is a process i went through and know quite well, otherwise good luck.
Taking a back office job was the worst career move in life. The work was mind numbingly dull and the advancement is limited. The longer you stay in ops, the more difficult it is to get out. I knew people in my office, trying for 5+ years to move to the front office with no success. Also with the capabilities of automation software and outsourcing, the job security is gone as an algorithm can make you redundant any day.
I quit after six months because I could not stand it, but now the experience has had me blackballed in the industry as an ops guy (not smart enough to be in front office). Thankfully, I have some entrepreneurial opportunities to pursue in and outside of finance. For any prospective monkeys out there, avoid ops.
I like how all the Ops people on this board throw me money shit, when you know it's true.
I spent three years in ops (custody actually, it's even worse) and it was an absolute nightmare. The work was mind-numbingly boring, I learned basically nothing, and I was completely on my own as far as staying intellectually stimulating. There's a reason I have so many bananas: I had nothing to do at work.
I made a comfortable living, had lots of friends, and strolled into the office at 10:30, basically working 2 to 3 hours a day while going on hour+ lunch breaks every day. And it wasn't worth it. Time is indeed priceless, and you can't spend it in an office dicking around while you wait to run the same macros day after day after day.
"I spent three years in ops (custody actually, it's even worse) and it was an absolute nightmare. The work was mind-numbingly boring, I learned basically nothing, and I was completely on my own as far as staying intellectually stimulating. There's a reason I have so many bananas: I had nothing to do at work.
I made a comfortable living, had lots of friends, and strolled into the office at 10:30, basically working 2 to 3 hours a day while going on hour+ lunch breaks every day. And it wasn't worth it. Time is indeed priceless, and you can't spend it in an office dicking around while you wait to run the same macros day after day after day."
Interested to know... how much coin can you earn in BB ops? Was your position in BB?
I mean, look at the positives here, if you have so much free time on your hands and if you earn good coin, why cant you study the CFA at work, start a small business on the side and or trade the stock market? (not sure if BO has a trading blacklist?)
It's cool, bro's love hatin' on me lol
Wtf? Why does OP always have the same banana count as me? It's freaking me out!
It's like another Boreed in a parallel universe who fucked up and got stuck in the BO. Aaaaaaahh!!!!
AAAAH! His banana count changed to 555 as I posted the above!!! Fuck off and die parallel Boreed! Go rot in operations and leave me alone bish!
:'(
OPS is just a misspelling of POS..
in ops do people wear suits?? and is it awkward when you're in an elevator with FO people and you are the first one to get off on a different floor??
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