What are the real reasons some people get promoted and others don't?

From Quora, the OP asked the following question:

What are the real reasons some people get promoted and others don't? I would appreciate answers based on observation and experience from people with significant management experience that take into account the political dimension of promotion rather than urban myths like "work hard and do a good job".

Jason M. Lemkin, CEO at EchoSign, had this top voted answer:

I'd like to provide some insights from my experience as a VP at a leading F500 tech company, and as a reasonably successful start-up CEO.

Promotions in the F500 are indeed complicated, but let me focus instead first on Performance Reviews, which is a penultimate step to promotion, and something in my F500 experience that materially impacts your compensation.

And here is my learning.  Reviews go into High, Strong, Good, and Needs to Improve basically in all Big Tech Cos.  (Some have SuperHighs, but that's rare).  And in my experiences, even at Adobe, even at a F500 leader with 10,000 employees ... there were zero politics in becoming a High. Because it's so clear who the Highs are. 

The only real issues, the politics, is the fact that some groups have too many High candidates (often the outperforming products), and some have too few, which warps the curves a bit.  So it's actually harder to be a High in an outperforming group than an underperforming group.

Having said all that ... really no politics.  This was pretty surprising to me.

Now, of course, not every High can get promoted.  But even the promotions, while not always the decisions I might make or you might make -- were always based on results. 

I know some of you will say your experience is different, but I'm going to suggest once you strip away the emotion, and once you see how the sausage is really made ... that it's probably the same in any growing tech company of any scale that has solid, experienced management.

So now, How to Get Promoted?  In both (x) my Big Tech Co experience, and (y) my post-20-50 employees in a strong start-up experience, to get promoted, here are my learnings:

  • Demonstrate successful leadership. This is what everyone is looking for.  Everyone.  Someone to take and carry the load.  As long as you have an experienced boss -- they will take notice.  Because what we all really need is help -- real help getting our initiatives done.  If you can get one of my key initiatives done for me -- not talked about, not analyzed, not discussed, but done -- you are a rockstar.
  • Work in a hot or at least warm area of the company.  No need to promote anyone in the EOL'd products -- though it does happen.
  • Don't schmooze.  Just engage and be positive and respectful.  Schmoozing is a turn-off.  Instead, as you Demonstrate Leadership, also positively (never negatively) engage with your peers and colleagues outside of your small group.  Be critical as needed -- but always positive.  Naked criticism will get you worse than nowhere, it will get you in the cellar.  Your peers' feedback, even if just informal and word-of-mouth ... is critical to your promotion.
  • Don't sell up. Yes, I know selling up sometimes "works" in Big Companies, but it doesn't really get you promoted  -- and really it's a sign you are weak.  Focus instead on selling down, and selling across.  On getting your colleagues to follow your ideas and insights.  That's how you demonstrate true leadership.
  • "Dress" for success.  I don't mean that completely literally (but yes, dress a little better than the rest, it can't hurt).  I mean act and carry yourself like someone that cares.  That always goes the extra yard.  Never look at the carpet, or yawn.  Never be late to a meeting -- ever.  Always be positive, give constructive feedback, but never destructive feedback.  Never be cocky, but be confident in what you know is correct.
  • (Try) to Be Patient. Even if you do everything right, there can only be so many promotions.  It may take another whole year.  This isn't politics per se, but companies of any size have a finite number that can make.  Don't give it more than one extra year, but assume it will take one more cycle than it should.
  • Ask.  Ask your boss how and what it will take to get promoted.  If you don't ask, you probably won't get.  Just be ready to get some tough feedback when you ask, and be ready to grow, change, and learn.
  • Working Hard and Doing a Good Job Is Insufficient. Again, promotion in Big Cos and tech companies of any scale is about leadership, and in many cases, management.  You'll get well paid if you work hard and do a good job.  You just won't get promoted all that far.

Just my learnings / observations in the BigCo.  I'd say all but the second point also apply to start-ups too.

I know some cos. are much more fracked up than this.  But I think / hope maybe 50% of the well run ones work just this way.

https://www.quora.com/Career-Advice/What-are-the-real-reasons-some-peop…

 

I am still relatively junior at my bank, but based on what I have observed and heard from senior bankers, office politics seems to only become a major factor at the very senior levels (e.g. an MD becoming Group Head, put on the executive committee, promoted to C-level, etc.) At junior levels (e.g. analyst to associate, associate to VP), the old adage of "work hard and do a good job" holds true for the most part. Of course, playing the office politics game might change people's perception of you and possibly affect your compensation/bonus, but as long as one works hard and does a good job, one can definitely be promoted to at least VP.

 

I agree with the high being poltics free. I used to know an Analyst at a BB who was just a STUD. And I mean, just rockstar in every sense of the word. There was a VP would refused to work with anyone else, and refused to let associates be put in the middle. I even recall this VP getting busy, and leaving an entire project to the Analyst because he trusted him so much.

He was promoted to associate after 18 months as an Analyst, and will probably get promoted again to VP this year - Keep in mind this is at a BB and the kid is 25 years old.

Point is, he kept out of politics entirely, just did his thing, didn't gossip or partake in any of the bullshitting, and just left when his work was done.

 
newfirstyear:
I agree with the high being poltics free. I used to know an Analyst at a BB who was just a STUD. And I mean, just rockstar in every sense of the word. There was a VP would refused to work with anyone else, and refused to let associates be put in the middle. I even recall this VP getting busy, and leaving an entire project to the Analyst because he trusted him so much.

He was promoted to associate after 18 months as an Analyst, and will probably get promoted again to VP this year - Keep in mind this is at a BB and the kid is 25 years old.

Point is, he kept out of politics entirely, just did his thing, didn't gossip or partake in any of the bullshitting, and just left when his work was done.

Unless this is S&T, I have serious doubts that this is true.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."
 
Best Response
newfirstyear:
yes, it was sales.
Yes, this is a more meritocratic environment. I loved my time in S&T because results were recognized and rewarded. Banking is an infinitely more hierarchical environment; it's true (as someone said above) that the old adage "work hard and do a good job" is enough to get you advanced within IBD, but at best, it'll get you the promotion on the earliest schedule possible and nothing more. Associate without a 3rd year (quite rare), VP after 3 more, MD as soon as you start making it rain ... it's still very scheduled, hence the trend where juniors get burnt out early, look for the exit, find it, and simply punch in the hours each week until their new gig kicks in. The amount of energy necessary to stand out to the point that early (really early) promotions come in banking is simply not worth it, for most people, when you could devote significantly less energy to getting a "better" job that will be easier on you.
I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

Having worked in IB and at F500 I can say that the critiria for getting promoted is very different. I-bank focus for promotion is on technical skills (for promotions at lower levels) and then it becomes focused on clients and $ from engagements (for higher levels, SVP, director, MD).

At at F500, the focus becomes much more on your management skills - but what is that really? To a large degree it's a person with great communication skills and a healthy dose of personal charisma. People like working with them, they don't come across as bossy (although they are actually leading people to do what they want done), etc. Getting promoted at a F500 is a much more nuanced approached, and it also doesn't hurt if you get higher executives to really like you.

 

Any one heard of some one moving from a diffrent company and getting a increase in the title level?

like moving from 3yrd assosciate to vp at a different firm etc

or from vp to director and a diff company etc

 
blastoise:
Any one heard of some one moving from a diffrent company and getting a increase in the title level?

like moving from 3yrd assosciate to vp at a different firm etc

or from vp to director and a diff company etc

Yes, this is something I have seen through my network, though admittedly not personally. It tends to happen when someone leaves a more prestigious firm to go work for a smaller firm that is up and coming and looking to attract talent. Had a friend a few years older who works in a different industry focused shop leave to go work for a fund that was in the midst of fundraising and she was able to make the jump from Senior Associate to VP. This can also happen at banks where a Director who might have to wait a year to get the MD bump is able to jump to a boutique or middle market shop and get a promotion because they are able to transfer all their client relationships to the next gig. You also see more guarantees and structured contracts (lock-ups, special incentives, etc.) in these types of situations because it is a bigger sell for the smaller firm to get that person to leave their gig at a more reputable shop. This is one of the quickest ways to move up the ladder; by jumping to another shop.
[quote=Dirk Dirkenson]Shut up already. Your mindless, reflexive responses to any critical thought on this are tedious. You're also probably a woman, given the name and "xoxo" signoff, so maybe the lack of judgment is to be expected.[/quote]
 
blastoise:
Any one heard of some one moving from a diffrent company and getting a increase in the title level?

like moving from 3yrd assosciate to vp at a different firm etc

or from vp to director and a diff company etc

Three guys I know left our firm as Associates and joined Bear Stearns as MDs in about 2006. Bear had the title Senior MD, so it was probably closer to getting Director/Senior Vice President, but still, it was the biggest title jump I've ever heard of in a move. Agree with the person above who said this happens more often when you're going to a smaller firm.
 

Play above your level. If you can only crunch through things with maximum efficiency and show no ability to eventually be in a position manage people and processes, your ceiling basically remains at the analyst level.

 
zsurf:
Play above your level. If you can only crunch through things with maximum efficiency and show no ability to eventually be in a position manage people and processes, your ceiling basically remains at the analyst level.

This.

The things that make you a great analyst aren't the things that make you a great VP.

 
tiberiusnow:
what happens to those associates who do not get promoted to VP... can they stay on in the firm, or would they be fired?

They either keep switching to different divisions/positions or they are let go. I have seen examples of both. Generally someone who is very good at their job, but just doesn't have what it takes to become a VP (manage people, real outside the box thinking, ect) will move from division to division. Those that are only average at their job and don't have what it takes are usually fired. It should also be noted that getting promoted can also be somewhat political. Just because you weren't promoted in one division and had to move doesn't mean that you can't make VP in your new job/division. Your bosses may like you better or you may perform better at the new job.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
 

If you've proven your stuff after 3+ years, shouldn't matter at all. Arguably, it may not even matter going in. I had friends going into Big 4 and industry who majored in psych, bio, etc. but were fine because they had relevant coursework and knew their stuff. After 3+ years at a large, presumably reputable company, that will probably trump everything else on your resume.

 

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