Asset Management arm at Bank
Have the opportunity to join the AM division at one of the big 5 Canadian banks in Toronto (RBC, TD, BMO), within the Investment Management function covering one of the asset groups (equities, fixed income, alts, etc.).
I've been recruiting for IBD but didn't land anything. Now that I'm presented with the AM internship, I want to give it a try and see if I'll like it.
Logic:
Worst case - I hate it, but since its still FO & B5, having it on resume could make me marginally more competitive for IBD? (let me know if im being delusional)
Best case - I love AM, I work my ass off for the return offer, and stop chasing IB once and for all.
I'm probably gonna take it if nothing else comes up. But in the meantime, I would love to learn more about the overall landscape:
- How does B5 AM differ from AM at BBs and other asset managers? Other than distribution, is AM even considered FO?
- WLB and comp? Is junior comp in line with other FO roles?
- What are the exits available to someone in alternatives or equities?
- If things dont work out, how hard is it to jump to IBD?
- culture at AM? (Bank specific/overall)
Cheers
bump
following
I know nothing on Canada, commenting mainly as a bump because interested but will try and share knowledge where I can.
1. I've never had the impression that working in AM at a bank vs a dedicated asset manager is massively different, it mainly comes down to AUM, headcount, strategy, performance etc. I've heard it said that it's better to work at a dedicated AM on the basis that banks tend to be more focused on banking, but given bank AMs tend to be wholly siloed businesses with their own management, structure etc I don't really buy into that. AM definitely considered FO if you're in an investing role.
2. Can't say for Canada. In general junior comp tends to be significantly lower than IBD especially on base salary, but over the long term it more or less evens out. WLB much better, and people in AM tend to be very passionate about what they do. I'll meet up with other people in my strategy and we can talk about it for hours, I doubt it's the same in IBD but could be wrong.
3. Neither in alts nor equities but in general AM is the exit opp and from there it's more about moving up to bigger funds, different geographies etc. That said it's really not uncommon to see PMs stay with the same fund for decades.
4. I doubt it's easy to move from AM to IBD, it's a different skillset and IBD recruitment is like 90%+ straight out of college or from other banks. That said given AM is a FO role and the skillset is respected, I think you'd have as good a chance as anyone to move from say AM industrials equities coverage to industrials M&A or whatever. But the traffic definitely flows mostly in the other direction, and I really don't know why someone would do that to be honest.
5. See 2, but I think the biggest thing I've noticed is how people are generally very passionate about their asset class. Apart from that, usually good WLB for finance. I imagine being a portfolio manager would be pretty stressful though, especially in times like this.
Great points, appreciate the insights.
Could find much info on this, are you familiar with the ballpark numbers for someone fresh out of uni? Whats the expectation on bonus? (I'll have to apply a 30-40% discount since canada pays peanuts.)
What do you consider "long term" such that the comp evens out between IBD and AM?
If AM starts lower but yoy increases are greater such that 3 years out of uni (IB associate equivalent) can make $200-300k all-in (IB associates), in that case its not a bad trade off given the much better WLB.
Well i find PE quite interesting based on research and readings. Would alternatives (RE, infra) at AM have a decent chance of existing to, say, REPE?
Having been hearing lots of praises on AM WLB, are we looking at 50-60 hours?
What does it take to become a PM in AM? Do they have similar discretionary power as PMs in HF?
90 give or take 5-10k and 20% would be ballpark.
You will make less than IBD with same years of experience and likely cap out at the Senior Analyst level since RBC/BMO/SCO pretty full on the PM roster now (not sure about TD, and CIBC had a exodus a few years ago). Means comp probably gets to 350 near top end. Even over time IBD will pay more; some bank owned asset managers used to do bps deals with PMs especially when they’re poaching star PMs to start a product or when buying out firms but by and large this is no longer the case so even at the PM level you’re only going to see paydays (outside of being limited by a pay grid) if you can really grow your AUM.
Thanks, this comp range is just for B5 AM research roles correct?
How's internal mobility into research teams from say, trading (within AM, execution only), or market risk? Or is sell-side research pretty much a hard requirement?
Could you also comment on WLB?
Really appreciate it.
Yes re: comp but at first gig out of school it doesn’t really differ all that much. Dispersion widens starting a few years out.
Wouldn’t say it’s a hard requirement but at the end of the day you’re solving for getting the offer, not an interview so it depends largely how you speak about the markets and your stock pitch. I do think think you can get better return on time spent studying companies vs sell side ER but that’s very individual dependent so for most candidates having gone through ER is additive when applying to B5 bank AM (note that I’m talking specifically about the B5 bank AM channel; arguably going through Canadian SS ER is a disservice if you are aiming for firms in the scope of Mawer).
As for WLB, it’s good but largely team dependent. Know groups that are very chill at 9-5 and groups that swing towards 70+hr per week.
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