Top of the morning chimps. So I am a sellside ER VP in his early 30s and I'm ready to make the move over to the buyside (specifically, long-only). Thing is, I've been having a bit of a hard time and I think it might have to do with my job hopping past.
I am starting to question whether or not I should (a) continue the job search and keep applying to stuff and networking or (b) put a pause on things and pick this back up in a year or two once I've gotten more tenure under my belt at my current gig.
To better inform any would-be advice givers, a bit more on my background. If you need more details on why/how I made the moves that I did, please ask me in the replies and I'm happy to share more detail:
- I went to a Big 10 non-target. I have a masters degree (not an MBA, but it is finance/accounting related), I'm a CPA, and I'm a CFA Charterholder.
- ~ 2 years big 4 audit/tax.
- ~7 months top BB accounting role.
- ~2.5 years at a foreign bank in equity research covering a mature sector popular with long--onlys
- ~1 year in wealth management (can give more detail on why I did this, if needed, so please ask if necessary).
- ~2 years at a BB doing ER which is where I am now. While here I've been promoted to VP and feel that I'm highly regarded. The sector I cover now is a hot sector with lots of growth.
So here are my question for you chimps:
- Do you yall think that I've hopped myself into oblivion here? Should I try and get a few more years at my current shop under my belt to ease concerns that I'm a job hopper?
- If you think I should stay for a while, consider this: I already have ~4 years of SS ER experience and I'm in my early 30s. I'm worried that I'm approaching SS pigeonhole territory and that the longer I stay, the harder this transition will be.
- Am I just overly concerned about the job hopping? Should I stick it out and keep applying to stuff?
What do we think chimps?
Based on the most helpful WSO content, here are some insights and advice for your situation:
Job Hopping Concerns:
Pigeonhole Concerns:
Long-Term Career Goals:
Networking and Applications:
In summary, while job hopping can be a concern, staying in your current role for a bit longer and building a strong track record can help mitigate these concerns. Keep networking and applying, and focus on demonstrating your commitment and growth in your current position.
Sources: Life decisions...buy-side equity analyst, Stuck at Current Firm, A warning to those aiming for Sell Side Equity Research, ~3 years experience 3 jobs, should I be worried?, How many Job Switches is too many for an MBA?
Ignore my title, I am an associate that made the switch from SS ER to an LO RA program.
I don't think the job hopping is an issue, but I do think you'd need more years in your SS seat before being considered. While you're a VP in title and have a lot of work experience, you have less than 5 of actual relevant experience, with none of it be true investing experience. LOs are looking for ~7 YOE for analysts roles and will only really (rarely) consider someone with 5 YOE if they came from an RA program, but typically want 5 years + MBA to be considered. LOs will hire SS VPs for analyst roles (have seen it first hand), but these VPs are typically working for II ranked analysts and are getting II votes themselves.
Even though your title is VP at your bank, from the lens of a LO, you're less experienced than the associates in their own RA programs with actual investing experience. I think you'd need at least 2-3 more years at the BB and get some II votes (don't have to be ranked) to be seriously considered.
Not sure how your SS franchise is set-up, but you should definitely be trying to make a name for yourself and appeal to that style of investing. Get some names under your coverage, host field trips and NDRs, publish research that dissects ST catalysts vs. LT quality. We don't necessarily care about how FX is going to impact the 2Q, give some real insight from the data your team gets.
I hope this helps
You mentioned LOs want 7 years of experience for analysts positions, could that be all sell-side? I'm trying to figure out the common path to a LO Analyst seat without doing an MBA and the amount/type of experience required
Thank you so much for the thoughtful reply, I really appreciate it. I think you gave some fantastic advice and if I end up sticking it out here a few more years I will certainly being doing all of those things (i.e. getting my name out there, field trips, NDRs, etc.).
The covering analyst of the team I work for was ranked in a different sector before she made a mid-career pivot 2 years back to this new sector that we cover. So we're still in the phase of getting our names out there among this newish investor base and have only been part of one II poll thus far and came in at the ~8-10 range. However, the plan is to be "runner up" this year, with sights on cracking the top 3 in 2025 or at worst 2026. So there will be ample opportunity to ride that wave if the time comes.
What about if I wanted to make the pivot over to a LO as an associate? Do you think that would make my transition now slightly easier? Do you think LOs would want to hire a SS VP with ~4 years of relevant experience for associate roles?
No problem! I wouldn't not recommend pivoting to be an associate. The probability of promotion to analyst is slim and you'd be taking a paycut likely. I'd recommend going to b-school before considering that. Age isn't too much of a consideration for many LOs since these are mostly career seats.
If you don't get looks after 2 years I'd go the b-school route if LO is you're only desired strategy.
Like this guy's plan of sticking it out two years and then going to business school. When interviewing, remember to think like an investor and not a sell-side analyst. Always try to be thinking about what you would actually do with your names vs. what your analyst wants. Make sure you develop some of your own opinions. What is a good investment, typically is different than a good sell-side narrative. '
Also moving over is VERY hard. Never stop looking, it might take 2 years and 40 interviews to finally do it. That's what it took for me.
Try to think about what investment style most resonates with you, are you value oriented? Growth oriented? Do you want large cap or small cap? Hone in on this and you can more proactively reach out to and network with the firm's that match this style. Just saying I want to move to the buyside for any seat as a 30+ year old is not enough. You will need a more targeted and precise story of why you want to go to XYZ firm than someone more junior.
Appreciate the feedback. So there is a curveball in all of this - I am recently married and just don't think B-school is in the cards anymore. My wife would probably divorce me if I took 2 years off from work and burned through savings that we're trying to use to buy a house.
I think I'm just going to stick it out here and try over and over again until something works out. If it takes 2 years and 40 interviews, so be it.
When you made the jump over to the buyside, did you model and pitch stocks outside of your coverage to use in your interviews?
The reason I ask is because I would definitely consider myself someone with a value/GAARP orientation and have been following some stocks very closely for my PA that fit that style. I was thinking that it would really show my interest in investing to build a model and maybe even put together some written material to showcase my way of thinking and to have done some deep work on some names outside of my coverage. What do you think?
Yes definitely, I highly recommend that. I remember one phone interview in the middle of sell-side earnings season with the PM of a fund. I pitched a few names in my coverage and he is like, pitch me a name outside of your coverage. Having worked like a slave and unable to think about anything outside of my coverage the past week or two, I did not give a good pitch. He ended up referring me to interview for a role for a position covering my sector but not his fund. After this I made a write up and model on a name that I sent with my resume. I would have a full write up and model for one name and have a pitch for a second name handy. It truly does separate you and shows you truly enjoy investing and aren't trying to move over for fake reasons. This is the hustle that gets respect and separates you from the rest. Towards the end of those two years, I had multiple write ups that I could send as work samples.
I would send your write up with every application or anytime someone asks for your resume. It gives them a real sample of your work. I do know for a fact my write up was a part of my selection for my current role.
Maybe have one name that fits with value and one with GARP or a name that could be either so that you have flexibility between those two styles.
Also during your interviews, they will talk about your write up and ask less off the cuff questions so you will be more prepared and interview better.
Perfect, this lines up well with what I've heard from others. Thanks again.
Just two more quick ones for you:
As far as strategy, did you just apply to things as they came up and then try and network with team members once you had an application in or did you proactively reach out to people via LinkedIn and other means even if the firm didn't have a job posting up?
Also, do you know of any recruiters that are used by LO firms? I get the impression that most of these recruiters are hired by pod shops and boutique SM firms. I was thinking it might be useful to speak to a recruiter to at least get tips on how my resume looks, where they think I'm strong/weak, etc.
I think both applying and proactively networking is smart. I am still proactively networking today.
On recruiters IDK - I was mostly recruiting for jobs basically anywhere that wasn't NYC so don't know. Personally don't think recruiters add much value but debatable.
not the answer you want - but you're not a realistic candidate for LO AM in a desirable seat or location.
too much wasted time in accounting roles + weak SS team - (1) you'll be going up against more malleable (and higher caliber) BB/EB candidates that are younger or (2) top tier MBAs that are likely polished w/ great experience
if you or your spouse have ties to less desirable states / areas with LO - that's your best shot
Thrivent comes to mind, for example
Do you have your own coverage or are you working towards coverage? Having independent coverage raises your pay grade materially. I’m a LO analyst who previously worked on the SS, and tbh, it can end up being a dead end/downgrade trade for you depending on the shop. SS has beta exposure to pod growth, the only secular growth area in active equity mgmt, while LO is levered to share loss to passive. If your LO shop is ex growth so will your bonus and you’ll have no opportunity to move up. A lead analyst role in a good sector on the sellside is underappreciated
Aperiam sapiente unde modi sed voluptatibus dolor harum. Accusamus voluptatibus velit facere repudiandae velit quae tempora repellat.
Quia est laudantium culpa id minus qui. In voluptatem ut in cupiditate dicta delectus omnis aut. Error cum numquam natus quisquam. Sapiente ut voluptas libero molestiae consequatur quia provident officiis.
Et natus voluptatem repellendus non dolore corporis eum sint. Recusandae distinctio quod aspernatur ipsam distinctio sunt. Et et cumque soluta quae ullam.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...