Q&A with Flake, “Don’t waste your time and energy in a back office role.”

How do I even begin to introduce Flake? More than anything else, Flake is really here for our enjoyment. Sure, maybe Flake is not as helpful as the legendary CompBanker, but that does not mean he is undeserving a Q&A. Within our interview, there are some real, solid lessons about the realities of networking from the back office to score an elusive FO role. Give the man props, because the BO-to-FO move is the epitome of doing the non-target hustle.

Although Flake has previously done an equity research focused Q&A, I wanted to sit down with him to discuss his back-office transition and his feelings about his current ER role. In this Q&A, Flake discusses his background, how to internally network from the back office, and the qualities of a successfully ER associate.

Please, enjoy, and make sure to look out for more of my Q&A’s with our more experienced users.


MF: Let's talk about your background, education, etc. - where did you come from? How did you get your initial Back Office job? What makes you special?

Flake: I went to a non-target state school, and graduated in 2009. How non-target? Well, a few weeks ago I had a meeting with a CEO of one of the companies under my coverage and he asked what school I attended (he was a Wharton UG and MBA man himself). I had to look at the floor, kick around a bit, and mutter the name under my breath.

Where did I come from? Russia, over a decade ago.

I had two summer analyst interviews for my junior year, one was an operations position at the BB that I currently work at, and the other was Blackrock PAG. Looking back, I realize neither of those was great, but I was ecstatic to receive the offers. Given that I was clueless back then, I made my decision based on brand name (I didn’t even know what in the world Blackrock was, seriously).

I thought I was the shit. I thought, “This is it, this is that Finance job that everyone keeps talking about.” I was proud of myself for not even trying and getting those. At $55,000 a year and $10,000 bonus at signing I figured I was well on my way of hitting that $100,000 by 30 goal (seriously, again). If I knew myself back then, I would have slapped the sh*t out of that kid.

What makes me special? The helmet, I guess.

-

MF: How did you know you wanted to work in equity research, if anything?

Flake: I didn’t know I wanted ER until I received my full-time offer at the end of my BB ops summer gig. After doing mindless shit for 10 weeks straight, it finally hit me that there are different divisions within the bank. I realized that operations was not what I wanted and it was definitely not “it”. I still signed the offer given the circumstances.

It was Fall ’08, I believe, and firms were cancelling OCR interviews at the time. I picked up the pace a bit during my senior year and came up with a master plan: 1) work in my BO job at 25% capacity, 2) spend the other 75% learning everything there is to learn about ER and IBD (my passion for both was a result of taking a couple of corporate finance classes during senior year), 3)???, and finally, 4) transition to ER or IB. More on this later…

After reading maybe 4-5 different books on investment banking, becoming addicted to WSJ and Barron’s, and speaking briefly to an ER associate who I met randomly- I knew what I wanted to do.

-

MF: Are you an analyst or associate?

Flake: As you may know, an analyst is more senior than an associate in a sell-side ER hierarchy. This is an external structure that we use for clients, reports, etc. Internally, we still follow the whole Analyst>Associate>VP>Director>MD structure. So my corporate/internal title is a 1st year Associate. Previously, I was an analyst for 2 years (split evenly between ER and BO).

-

MF: You mentioned that you networked your way to an FO associate job (granted some of it was sheer luck)... how would you recommend going about internally networking? What did you learn from your experience of almost getting the boot from networking a little too hard?

Flake: With networking, just be normal. I didn’t want to come off as some try-hard desperate brown-noser, and at the same time I didn’t want to come off self-entitled and cocky. Just be modest, be curious (bi-curious if that’s your thing), ask good questions, let the person talk about himself or herself, and just be able to shoot the sh*t with the person if it comes to that.

Despite my short career and my inexperience, I am still contacted by random people who want to “network” with me. Sure, I meet them. We talk, or try to. Some of them try so hard you can smell their bullshit from a mile away. The others say shit like “so my main concern is that ER is all about writing and modeling, I just don’t want to be stuck looking at an excel sheet all day”. Yes, valid question, but you don’t have to sound like a dick when phrasing it.

You can find my detailed BO to FO story in that Q&A thread I started in December. What I learned: if you want something, you go and get it. All good things require sacrifices; otherwise they are called hand-outs (occupy my ass). If I could go back to the BO, I would do the exact same thing.

-

MF: Talk to us about how to use a company directory?

Flake: Using the directory should be easy. I don’t know how it works at other firms, but I can filter mine by division, title, team, etc, which made it relatively easy to find the people you wanted. The one thing I fucked up on was cold emailing a tech analyst in SF, asking him to grab lunch/coffee. I’m in New York. So just pay attention. When you’re excited to email someone you can make a dumb mistake like that.

Lastly, if ER is your thing, you should have access to your bank’s research reports. Form your questions around those notes when emailing an analyst or an associate. Don’t ask obvious sh*t either; get a little creative with it to show that you are knowledgeable and interested in that sector. Otherwise, I will just attach a copy of my report and tell you to “look on page 3.”

-

MF: What is more important, a superior technical knowledge or superior amicable personality?

Flake: I would never isolate one of those and say that’s the most important. It is a mix of both…also sex appeal helps. For example, I would attribute 90% of my ER transition to my handsomeness. But seriously, you do need both though.

Technical:

1) Helps instill confidence in your clients and establish your credibility as a reliable source of information
2) Having something like the CFA charter should help with your potential move to the buy side
3) Knowing your sh*t will also make your analyst more comfortable with giving you greater responsibility. Your analyst has to be confident in your analysis and at some point the analyst shouldn’t feel like he or she needs to hold your hand.

Amicable personality:

1) ER analysts are not anti-social and they are not geeks or nerds or whatever I’ve seen thrown around occasionally
2) you need be personable when interacting with big institutional accounts and c-level executives of the industry that you cover.

-

MF: What grinds your gears the most when it comes to daily interaction with people (be it supervisors or subordinates)?

Flake: I don’t like people who act self-entitled. I don’t like anyone who constantly argues and tries to convince you they are right, even though they have been wrong the previous 10 times in a row. I don’t like people who get offended easily or can’t handle constructive criticism. I like modesty. I like someone I can grab a drink with and talk about anything, including WORK. Yes, work. Just because you hate your job doesn’t mean I hate mine and should shy away from discussing it in a social setting.

I have one subordinate, if you will; he is a “research assistant”. The thing I hate about him is his lack of attention to detail and his inability to take ownership of what I tell him to do. I feel like he does shit just to finish it, he doesn’t care about the end result and everything he hands over to me is sloppy.

My boss on the other hand, is exactly the type of person I just described. I can talk to him about anything and everything. He is easy-going but he can be strict and he can be a dick if the timing is right and shit needs to get done. That’s what I usually look for in a man.

-

MF: You're one of the people that transitioned from Operations to the Front Office, what advice would you give someone who is trying to do the same thing?

Flake: I may be biased, but don’t waste your time and energy on excelling in your back office or middle office role if your goal is to move as soon as possible. If you are one of those people that thinks your current boss in BO/MO will “refer” you to that banking MD if you work your ass off, you are kind of wrong. That shit doesn’t happen.

Focus on networking and studying (be it for the CFA, GMAT, or just reading relevant books/news). Don’t spend too much time working there. If you are still in a back office role two years after you graduated it is time to pack your stuff and go to business school…that’s just my opinion of course.

What I do now is not related to my BO position at all.

-

MF: What is the most positive part of ER and what is the most negative?

Flake: I discussed most of this in my Q&A thread as well.

My favorite part is that it’s not all grunt work. Even when a client uses me for informational purposes and doesn’t really care about my Buy/Sell/Hold rating (no one does really), I still feel like my opinion is valued and sought after. Every time I hear “Thanks for your time and insight, Flake, very helpful” I get a kick out of that.

When was the last time someone who’s twice your age, who is making probably 15-20x of what you make a year, and who is managing billions of dollars, thanked you for your “insight” or your “time?”

What’s the most negative thing about my job? They could pay me more money.

-

MF: What are some basic qualities specifically needed to be successful at an ER job?

Flake: Confidence. Attention to detail. You must have a passion for your sector and the markets (otherwise you’re just bored). Have the ability to write well, and being selectively direct and concise (not my best quality).

-

MF: Will you be attending the WSO conference?

Flake: I have my ticket to the WSO conference. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, I might dedicate that Saturday to a catnap.

-

MF: Why do you feel like it is important to give back in the realm of solid advice to the WSO community?

Flake: I didn’t even know WSO existed before I started in ER… so I really don’t have anyone here to thank for anything. I never even thought of going on an Internet forum to seek advice on my career or networking, but I sure wish I did. It would have made my transition a lot easier, and more importantly; I would not have felt like I was the only one trying to take that leap. Also, I would like to give back occasionally in return for Patrick letting me troll WSO 90% of the time.

-

MF: I usually open up the end of the Q&A to say anything you may wish (just be nice).

Flake: I just want to give a few shout outs to the people who keep me entertained on WSO:

Nouveau Richie, shorttheworld, heister, Determined, Whiskey5, duffmt6, ekimlacks, WellPlayed, Midas Mulligan Magoo (RIP), swagon, TonyPerkis, malvvar, rothyman, and ah. If I forgot someone, I’m not sorry.


Check my past Q&A’s:

Heister (HF)- My Total Worth is North of $50 Million

Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 1
Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 2

CompBanker (PE) Part 1
CompBanker (PE) Part 2

 

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Nam dolores modi cupiditate esse in. Eos dolor quas quaerat illum qui sed sapiente.

 

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Qui mollitia ducimus quidem recusandae mollitia quis ullam. Ut quasi rerum magni incidunt odio consequatur non facere. Possimus vitae nihil explicabo inventore.

 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

Nisi fuga repudiandae iure quisquam delectus. Odit consequatur soluta sed non quam.

Corrupti totam ad quod eum. Sunt dolorem facere distinctio et. Qui perferendis occaecati eveniet id sed. Sit animi est quas deserunt odio reiciendis id libero. Voluptates quia sunt quasi nostrum dolore repudiandae delectus.

Rem aperiam consequatur dicta voluptates et minima. Suscipit et aut ut. Distinctio laborum mollitia rerum nihil dicta et facere.

Rerum aut amet laboriosam recusandae esse. Dolores aut cupiditate reprehenderit sunt.

 

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Sunt voluptatum omnis quos tenetur impedit porro rerum. Aut laudantium qui dolorem libero odio harum ipsam. Optio sunt itaque ut non. Ipsam repellat nobis cupiditate accusantium dolor dolorem.

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"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
 

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Ut consectetur doloribus eum iste eveniet. Ex eligendi repellendus ut consequuntur labore. Occaecati amet ut amet sunt. Quia mollitia consectetur omnis et odit. Maiores sit ad saepe dolor voluptate accusamus autem. Quidem sint velit aut illo ut error. Nam illum eum odit qui explicabo vero aut ipsam.

 

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Repudiandae et ad voluptatem dignissimos dolorem quo nesciunt. Aliquam ducimus harum voluptas aut aperiam autem est. Sed et et quis enim optio.

"Rage, rage against the dying of the light." - DT
 

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Array
 

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Autem magnam debitis repellendus delectus quidem deleniti. Magnam reiciendis voluptas ad amet molestiae porro. Ut reiciendis consequuntur consectetur.

 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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At mollitia recusandae accusamus qui sunt qui tempore. Non ea quam deserunt omnis at nisi inventore. Molestiae assumenda natus eum qui enim. Nihil nobis qui sequi assumenda voluptatibus libero blanditiis. Omnis cumque quaerat natus vitae et aut praesentium. Aut animi maiores neque sed cupiditate autem.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

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Ipsa eius in accusamus enim. Sapiente est provident nisi non fuga a. Ipsum saepe veniam odio ut iure dolore nihil.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Asperiores eaque exercitationem consequatur dolor est eos rem. Velit non neque similique veniam ratione aliquam delectus. Fugiat nobis necessitatibus repudiandae. Magnam odit nihil ut et. Incidunt fugit vero voluptatem velit sint.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Autem aspernatur omnis amet ipsam voluptatem doloribus dolores. Optio aliquam autem sit maxime veniam. Earum omnis et repellat nulla est. Placeat et omnis atque quasi laboriosam reprehenderit necessitatibus.

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Et sint illo eum molestias labore et unde. Tempora animi illo odit consequuntur dolorem. Accusantium accusamus ad voluptatem minima aliquam aspernatur et architecto.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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Laudantium et velit tempora praesentium rerum. Suscipit ea et tenetur unde.

Officiis tenetur ut laboriosam voluptatibus necessitatibus. Est ut sapiente odio similique dolore est porro ex. Ab non eligendi architecto consectetur dicta.

Itaque ut recusandae distinctio et. Ut sunt laboriosam dolor iusto adipisci qui. Velit quo aliquam possimus nemo. Est dolorem et dicta. Fugiat excepturi enim sequi qui est. Maiores voluptas dolores id ratione voluptates ducimus sed.

 

Saepe sint nulla omnis nam similique saepe totam. Consectetur consequuntur saepe explicabo magnam autem laborum architecto. Ut officiis qui architecto. Commodi neque esse fugit et quae laborum sed. Corrupti dolores omnis veniam ab. Iure dolor nam maxime.

Explicabo et sequi vero sint. Quidem nihil sunt qui est. Autem corrupti ratione aut id delectus. Non aperiam excepturi est cumque qui sapiente sint. Tempora asperiores iure perferendis occaecati.

 

Accusantium suscipit quae eum aut. Et qui enim autem dolore sunt doloremque officiis enim. Est aut hic molestiae id non.

Tempore et vel eum eius unde autem ut. Nesciunt eos neque rerum dolorum rerum reiciendis corrupti. At tempora quasi quia vero quia aperiam blanditiis. Occaecati velit numquam vero ut fuga quis. Sed praesentium eos eos architecto harum nam. Laborum dolor optio nihil voluptas.

Aspernatur dolore quo fugit. Quas placeat perferendis quisquam architecto non. Rem accusantium incidunt voluptatem ea aut blanditiis. Ab sit corrupti corrupti enim omnis aut quia. Similique et molestiae qui corrupti. Quas autem tempora magnam nam odit qui. Eaque velit nobis ea id dicta consequatur occaecati voluptatem.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Minima aspernatur sit fugit explicabo ut eveniet est. Occaecati ut ducimus aut deserunt dolorem vero. Laudantium est minus molestias tempora doloremque aut aspernatur. Id consequatur eveniet nobis praesentium sed. Commodi consequatur ullam est et est incidunt et.

Nostrum cum voluptatum ducimus. Quisquam molestias unde ad nam quia voluptatem officia. Fuga laudantium magni explicabo.

Et ea non dolor qui ducimus. Id eius eius unde quam consectetur animi delectus. Iure repudiandae modi sunt est culpa quod eligendi. Explicabo vero soluta dolore explicabo at. Vero laborum iusto cum impedit. Qui sed tempore qui quibusdam totam provident sit.

Molestiae ea sunt facere maxime distinctio. Cum illum ipsum vel maiores in autem. Sed id quos illo qui incidunt non molestiae. Et ut ducimus consequatur est.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Quis totam facere qui ut at quia. Molestiae magnam consectetur voluptas sed eos est dignissimos atque. Sint nulla iusto quo necessitatibus maxime. Et aliquid accusantium velit quidem ut voluptates. Sit repellat praesentium culpa velit.

Vel porro molestias est nisi ad odit at nihil. Deserunt nihil repudiandae hic blanditiis eos voluptatem. Quas eos enim saepe dolorum molestiae exercitationem.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 

Sunt quidem et dignissimos dolorem excepturi. Consequatur nesciunt amet eveniet rem maiores. At esse quia saepe saepe blanditiis animi. Et atque odit et amet inventore. Vel error tenetur ut accusamus maiores.

Ut dolor voluptatem culpa voluptates officia. Quaerat incidunt maiores exercitationem officiis pariatur enim voluptas. Sed veniam rerum aperiam.

Perspiciatis quo necessitatibus similique excepturi earum. Quidem qui sequi pariatur dolorum nihil qui nam aspernatur. Expedita quidem quia aut atque itaque nostrum iste.

 

Et cupiditate corrupti rerum. Quia commodi recusandae voluptas inventore quia dolores porro. Non ipsam sed molestias enim ipsum illo incidunt rerum. Sequi aut officiis reiciendis ex.

Quis quis eum placeat et et est aliquam. Ullam tempora aut animi non provident rerum minus.

Iusto aut in perspiciatis pariatur et quibusdam. Consequatur accusantium odit fugit sapiente odio.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

A quia voluptatem eveniet non exercitationem voluptates voluptatem. Nihil quod velit veniam facilis. In aut eos et sit.

Ducimus sed quae sunt. Debitis sit architecto architecto officiis. Vel tenetur est consequatur culpa.

Nostrum quia odit quia natus ut voluptate vitae illum. Fugit aliquam at quos ipsam harum saepe.

Doloribus ut tempora recusandae nostrum dolores. Est fugit autem sed rem totam saepe soluta.

 

Neque rerum distinctio veritatis harum omnis perspiciatis. Eos magnam sed ut illum voluptas qui consequuntur. Consequuntur sunt vitae est quod vitae. Iure et vel reiciendis vero praesentium. Incidunt non possimus beatae tenetur.

Itaque sed suscipit similique et totam enim. In fugit quidem deserunt ducimus dignissimos. Voluptas nesciunt nostrum sunt vitae quia quas porro. Repellat nam omnis tempore neque ea.

Itaque atque ipsa mollitia. Accusantium ullam et sunt quam. Laudantium omnis nostrum quae fugit qui. Animi ut provident iste enim consequatur.

Esse odit quisquam nihil consequuntur eligendi occaecati. Quod odio et nesciunt quis dignissimos architecto aut doloribus. Omnis sapiente nostrum ad ut. Consequatur dolorem sed tenetur neque. Incidunt ut sapiente perspiciatis ex.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Odio eum vero accusantium deserunt. Commodi voluptas in suscipit sit quo voluptatem similique. Ipsum enim sit quia reiciendis hic nisi reprehenderit.

Et nobis sunt et et nemo. Quia sunt alias eius. Culpa accusantium quisquam et dolorum vel voluptas. Impedit est facere dolor vel dolorum quia. Molestiae fugiat labore et itaque qui. Itaque sit voluptatem est.

Hic vel odio occaecati facere vel sed. Sunt iusto sapiente temporibus similique repellat. Fuga tempore quidem tempora consequatur. Cumque consequatur aliquam voluptatem numquam. Autem minima reiciendis at dignissimos labore deleniti.

Ullam pariatur facere ea cum ducimus rerum ab porro. Vel voluptatem cumque et unde repellat. Quisquam totam dolorem sed nihil corporis totam. Quia doloremque voluptatum quidem reprehenderit.

 

Deleniti ipsum sint ut ipsa. Velit vel consequatur quam fugiat aperiam odio. Eos rerum sit repellat iure aut optio dolorem.

Sequi earum veritatis aut qui voluptatem. Id nostrum est dolore praesentium cumque distinctio. Rerum laborum assumenda recusandae deleniti doloremque.

Nihil temporibus recusandae et numquam. Esse consectetur et itaque excepturi. Vel ipsa voluptas commodi id facere accusantium. Est ab in neque dolores qui minima quae exercitationem.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Aut libero non ea quia qui repudiandae dignissimos. Quae et omnis sit laborum dolor perferendis sint. Qui sit sequi nostrum possimus.

Maxime magnam nobis nulla voluptas aspernatur ab aliquam. Adipisci explicabo qui qui. Provident vero quis voluptatem iste soluta possimus.

Vel vitae in incidunt excepturi debitis dolorum. Asperiores ut numquam quas consequuntur qui sint. Cum et ut officiis deleniti.

Occaecati molestiae dolor ipsa architecto architecto. Ut qui autem voluptatem animi ut quos asperiores. Architecto molestiae nulla id error veniam reiciendis. Placeat qui minus eius. Quasi sit ut numquam assumenda eligendi rerum non.

 

Optio consequatur consequatur dolores laborum minima impedit aliquam. Consectetur deserunt enim nesciunt voluptas et nihil. Unde architecto vitae adipisci voluptatem eveniet. Et voluptas veniam qui eum voluptatem.

Sint praesentium est sapiente dolorem quae neque placeat omnis. Ea in et iusto voluptas. Fuga in vel et fugiat repellat quam.

Ea ea et enim voluptas vitae. Est laudantium consequatur odit ex autem. Numquam doloribus recusandae cumque.

Ut nihil sequi beatae qui magni voluptatem deleniti. Possimus incidunt repudiandae nesciunt consequatur exercitationem. Molestiae alias similique non voluptatem nulla aliquid praesentium. Quis rem qui quae fuga natus consequatur consequatur doloribus. Sunt ex aliquid autem eligendi placeat voluptas qui.

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