Q&A with Flake, “Don’t waste your time and energy in a back office role.”

How do I even begin to introduce Flake? More than anything else, Flake is really here for our enjoyment. Sure, maybe Flake is not as helpful as the legendary CompBanker, but that does not mean he is undeserving a Q&A. Within our interview, there are some real, solid lessons about the realities of networking from the back office to score an elusive FO role. Give the man props, because the BO-to-FO move is the epitome of doing the non-target hustle.

Although Flake has previously done an equity research focused Q&A, I wanted to sit down with him to discuss his back-office transition and his feelings about his current ER role. In this Q&A, Flake discusses his background, how to internally network from the back office, and the qualities of a successfully ER associate.

Please, enjoy, and make sure to look out for more of my Q&A’s with our more experienced users.


MF: Let's talk about your background, education, etc. - where did you come from? How did you get your initial Back Office job? What makes you special?

Flake: I went to a non-target state school, and graduated in 2009. How non-target? Well, a few weeks ago I had a meeting with a CEO of one of the companies under my coverage and he asked what school I attended (he was a Wharton UG and MBA man himself). I had to look at the floor, kick around a bit, and mutter the name under my breath.

Where did I come from? Russia, over a decade ago.

I had two summer analyst interviews for my junior year, one was an operations position at the BB that I currently work at, and the other was Blackrock PAG. Looking back, I realize neither of those was great, but I was ecstatic to receive the offers. Given that I was clueless back then, I made my decision based on brand name (I didn’t even know what in the world Blackrock was, seriously).

I thought I was the shit. I thought, “This is it, this is that Finance job that everyone keeps talking about.” I was proud of myself for not even trying and getting those. At $55,000 a year and $10,000 bonus at signing I figured I was well on my way of hitting that $100,000 by 30 goal (seriously, again). If I knew myself back then, I would have slapped the sh*t out of that kid.

What makes me special? The helmet, I guess.

-

MF: How did you know you wanted to work in equity research, if anything?

Flake: I didn’t know I wanted ER until I received my full-time offer at the end of my BB ops summer gig. After doing mindless shit for 10 weeks straight, it finally hit me that there are different divisions within the bank. I realized that operations was not what I wanted and it was definitely not “it”. I still signed the offer given the circumstances.

It was Fall ’08, I believe, and firms were cancelling OCR interviews at the time. I picked up the pace a bit during my senior year and came up with a master plan: 1) work in my BO job at 25% capacity, 2) spend the other 75% learning everything there is to learn about ER and IBD (my passion for both was a result of taking a couple of corporate finance classes during senior year), 3)???, and finally, 4) transition to ER or IB. More on this later…

After reading maybe 4-5 different books on investment banking, becoming addicted to WSJ and Barron’s, and speaking briefly to an ER associate who I met randomly- I knew what I wanted to do.

-

MF: Are you an analyst or associate?

Flake: As you may know, an analyst is more senior than an associate in a sell-side ER hierarchy. This is an external structure that we use for clients, reports, etc. Internally, we still follow the whole Analyst>Associate>VP>Director>MD structure. So my corporate/internal title is a 1st year Associate. Previously, I was an analyst for 2 years (split evenly between ER and BO).

-

MF: You mentioned that you networked your way to an FO associate job (granted some of it was sheer luck)... how would you recommend going about internally networking? What did you learn from your experience of almost getting the boot from networking a little too hard?

Flake: With networking, just be normal. I didn’t want to come off as some try-hard desperate brown-noser, and at the same time I didn’t want to come off self-entitled and cocky. Just be modest, be curious (bi-curious if that’s your thing), ask good questions, let the person talk about himself or herself, and just be able to shoot the sh*t with the person if it comes to that.

Despite my short career and my inexperience, I am still contacted by random people who want to “network” with me. Sure, I meet them. We talk, or try to. Some of them try so hard you can smell their bullshit from a mile away. The others say shit like “so my main concern is that ER is all about writing and modeling, I just don’t want to be stuck looking at an excel sheet all day”. Yes, valid question, but you don’t have to sound like a dick when phrasing it.

You can find my detailed BO to FO story in that Q&A thread I started in December. What I learned: if you want something, you go and get it. All good things require sacrifices; otherwise they are called hand-outs (occupy my ass). If I could go back to the BO, I would do the exact same thing.

-

MF: Talk to us about how to use a company directory?

Flake: Using the directory should be easy. I don’t know how it works at other firms, but I can filter mine by division, title, team, etc, which made it relatively easy to find the people you wanted. The one thing I fucked up on was cold emailing a tech analyst in SF, asking him to grab lunch/coffee. I’m in New York. So just pay attention. When you’re excited to email someone you can make a dumb mistake like that.

Lastly, if ER is your thing, you should have access to your bank’s research reports. Form your questions around those notes when emailing an analyst or an associate. Don’t ask obvious sh*t either; get a little creative with it to show that you are knowledgeable and interested in that sector. Otherwise, I will just attach a copy of my report and tell you to “look on page 3.”

-

MF: What is more important, a superior technical knowledge or superior amicable personality?

Flake: I would never isolate one of those and say that’s the most important. It is a mix of both…also sex appeal helps. For example, I would attribute 90% of my ER transition to my handsomeness. But seriously, you do need both though.

Technical:

1) Helps instill confidence in your clients and establish your credibility as a reliable source of information
2) Having something like the CFA charter should help with your potential move to the buy side
3) Knowing your sh*t will also make your analyst more comfortable with giving you greater responsibility. Your analyst has to be confident in your analysis and at some point the analyst shouldn’t feel like he or she needs to hold your hand.

Amicable personality:

1) ER analysts are not anti-social and they are not geeks or nerds or whatever I’ve seen thrown around occasionally
2) you need be personable when interacting with big institutional accounts and c-level executives of the industry that you cover.

-

MF: What grinds your gears the most when it comes to daily interaction with people (be it supervisors or subordinates)?

Flake: I don’t like people who act self-entitled. I don’t like anyone who constantly argues and tries to convince you they are right, even though they have been wrong the previous 10 times in a row. I don’t like people who get offended easily or can’t handle constructive criticism. I like modesty. I like someone I can grab a drink with and talk about anything, including WORK. Yes, work. Just because you hate your job doesn’t mean I hate mine and should shy away from discussing it in a social setting.

I have one subordinate, if you will; he is a “research assistant”. The thing I hate about him is his lack of attention to detail and his inability to take ownership of what I tell him to do. I feel like he does shit just to finish it, he doesn’t care about the end result and everything he hands over to me is sloppy.

My boss on the other hand, is exactly the type of person I just described. I can talk to him about anything and everything. He is easy-going but he can be strict and he can be a dick if the timing is right and shit needs to get done. That’s what I usually look for in a man.

-

MF: You're one of the people that transitioned from Operations to the Front Office, what advice would you give someone who is trying to do the same thing?

Flake: I may be biased, but don’t waste your time and energy on excelling in your back office or middle office role if your goal is to move as soon as possible. If you are one of those people that thinks your current boss in BO/MO will “refer” you to that banking MD if you work your ass off, you are kind of wrong. That shit doesn’t happen.

Focus on networking and studying (be it for the CFA, GMAT, or just reading relevant books/news). Don’t spend too much time working there. If you are still in a back office role two years after you graduated it is time to pack your stuff and go to business school…that’s just my opinion of course.

What I do now is not related to my BO position at all.

-

MF: What is the most positive part of ER and what is the most negative?

Flake: I discussed most of this in my Q&A thread as well.

My favorite part is that it’s not all grunt work. Even when a client uses me for informational purposes and doesn’t really care about my Buy/Sell/Hold rating (no one does really), I still feel like my opinion is valued and sought after. Every time I hear “Thanks for your time and insight, Flake, very helpful” I get a kick out of that.

When was the last time someone who’s twice your age, who is making probably 15-20x of what you make a year, and who is managing billions of dollars, thanked you for your “insight” or your “time?”

What’s the most negative thing about my job? They could pay me more money.

-

MF: What are some basic qualities specifically needed to be successful at an ER job?

Flake: Confidence. Attention to detail. You must have a passion for your sector and the markets (otherwise you’re just bored). Have the ability to write well, and being selectively direct and concise (not my best quality).

-

MF: Will you be attending the WSO conference?

Flake: I have my ticket to the WSO conference. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, I might dedicate that Saturday to a catnap.

-

MF: Why do you feel like it is important to give back in the realm of solid advice to the WSO community?

Flake: I didn’t even know WSO existed before I started in ER… so I really don’t have anyone here to thank for anything. I never even thought of going on an Internet forum to seek advice on my career or networking, but I sure wish I did. It would have made my transition a lot easier, and more importantly; I would not have felt like I was the only one trying to take that leap. Also, I would like to give back occasionally in return for Patrick letting me troll WSO 90% of the time.

-

MF: I usually open up the end of the Q&A to say anything you may wish (just be nice).

Flake: I just want to give a few shout outs to the people who keep me entertained on WSO:

Nouveau Richie, shorttheworld, heister, Determined, Whiskey5, duffmt6, ekimlacks, WellPlayed, Midas Mulligan Magoo (RIP), swagon, TonyPerkis, malvvar, rothyman, and ah. If I forgot someone, I’m not sorry.


Check my past Q&A’s:

Heister (HF)- My Total Worth is North of $50 Million

Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 1
Patrick Curtis (PE, WSO Founder) Part 2

CompBanker (PE) Part 1
CompBanker (PE) Part 2

 

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“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

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My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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Eos delectus voluptatem a nemo at et. Soluta odio unde rerum. Deserunt et minus aspernatur voluptas illo blanditiis omnis illo. Ut nemo numquam eaque quia labore.

 

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I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.
 

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"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
 

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"Rage, rage against the dying of the light." - DT
 

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Array
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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WSO Content & Social Media. Follow us: Linkedin, IG, Facebook, Twitter.
 

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You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

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I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

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In quia molestiae earum ut ipsam. Recusandae nobis necessitatibus quibusdam magnam reiciendis reiciendis in in. Illum quod voluptates earum delectus. Deserunt alias rerum sequi necessitatibus neque culpa. Beatae quibusdam voluptates molestiae quibusdam ut maiores qui. Voluptatem modi nulla modi occaecati.

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Et velit laborum adipisci quia est. Omnis pariatur qui iusto mollitia harum in possimus. Sint officiis laborum adipisci eveniet perferendis et. Cum aut omnis tempora et voluptates illo ut.

 

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"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

Rem unde consectetur eos aut sequi. Velit est accusamus velit architecto cumque magni adipisci. Accusantium aut natus quo nostrum dolore ut et accusamus. Corrupti distinctio commodi temporibus blanditiis laborum amet ut. Sit sint sunt alias sint. Repellat aut vel eum mollitia doloribus odio.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Ratione blanditiis et sit cupiditate. Omnis autem neque temporibus est saepe minima. Mollitia cupiditate ratione nobis voluptatem ipsam cupiditate commodi. Quia commodi ut ex dolor ea. Earum consequatur odio magnam praesentium magnam rerum. Explicabo unde incidunt aut accusantium.

Aliquid alias quia repellat officia. Sed voluptas earum quas cum itaque. Fugiat aut libero ab voluptatibus. Quaerat quos et occaecati. Tempore est illum aut nihil labore.

Natus laborum omnis quo ut voluptatum minima. Recusandae animi ipsam sapiente fuga repellendus debitis quisquam. Consequatur facere mollitia enim. Est libero accusantium magni nostrum veritatis.

Consectetur porro corporis optio maxime fugit modi ut. Quasi dolorem doloremque autem modi molestiae et. Neque molestiae exercitationem est culpa. Qui blanditiis mollitia sed et. Nihil quidem et labore architecto. Aspernatur fuga delectus quis et mollitia officia ipsa. Sint iusto consequatur saepe est velit eos et.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

Voluptate quam accusamus sunt voluptas reprehenderit vel et. Vel minima debitis asperiores quis molestiae dicta iusto. Quod deserunt eum qui quasi recusandae doloribus sed.

Nihil ut commodi aut architecto. Alias possimus dolores aliquam consequatur omnis in. Facilis omnis sit voluptatum eos rerum quod laudantium. Et qui ut incidunt deleniti quisquam.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Praesentium et occaecati nemo qui assumenda quae. Odit neque ut veritatis. Repellendus enim autem ipsum alias magnam. Officia accusamus sequi numquam delectus error reiciendis nemo quo.

Excepturi reprehenderit autem error nihil. Molestiae repellendus deserunt numquam officia corporis asperiores.

Aut quasi aut corporis blanditiis pariatur. Facilis ut voluptatum reiciendis ipsam quaerat vel unde. Quibusdam et corrupti animi sint eveniet voluptatem. Temporibus in ex ipsa eos aut et debitis. Odio consequatur dolorem voluptas neque. Nobis ducimus doloremque exercitationem cumque.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them
 

Sunt tenetur eligendi aut totam. Ipsam odio veritatis officiis doloribus ex tenetur aut quasi. Repudiandae ut sunt dolore dolor officiis.

Provident labore dicta et recusandae impedit voluptas. Rerum in cumque iste consectetur. Velit facere cupiditate ab corrupti expedita laborum. Recusandae aliquam mollitia animi corrupti quidem et. Quisquam nam voluptas qui dolor voluptatem dolor aut est.

Illum vel non error et veritatis ut. Eos impedit suscipit itaque voluptatem perspiciatis quasi. Odit quis earum velit placeat voluptatem. Necessitatibus consequatur consequatur nisi dolorem. Ab eum ut voluptatibus autem nesciunt voluptas id. Nobis voluptatem cupiditate mollitia enim repudiandae modi. Dignissimos expedita assumenda voluptas eum ea blanditiis modi.

Est exercitationem odit mollitia laudantium sint ea ut. Quia assumenda veritatis et. Veritatis temporibus natus incidunt enim. Eum modi sunt id inventore aut qui sed.

 

Aperiam enim natus eum est itaque ea voluptatem. Quibusdam sed aperiam recusandae qui optio excepturi. At eos et consequuntur et. Est amet voluptas qui pariatur voluptatem porro voluptas.

Magnam suscipit molestiae consequatur aliquid illo saepe. At ut error perspiciatis est quis id in eveniet. Facilis qui maiores sed praesentium. Omnis voluptatem et similique minus illo.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Aspernatur dolor repellendus qui inventore. Doloremque necessitatibus voluptatem aut labore. Dolores est omnis dignissimos quos. Veritatis rerum voluptatibus ut saepe.

Exercitationem cum aspernatur assumenda. Iure nulla mollitia doloribus assumenda atque nisi in saepe. Est natus non eaque tempore.

A beatae earum aut cupiditate nulla. Explicabo vel quae dolorum fugit. Laborum quos laborum reprehenderit est quam ipsa.

Iste qui animi praesentium doloribus consectetur. Est quaerat qui assumenda est omnis sit provident voluptas. Quia est neque labore voluptas et ut ut vel. Explicabo sit sint repellat asperiores autem et pariatur tenetur. Ea eum nulla veritatis quia officia eum. Debitis voluptatibus asperiores et ducimus at sint cumque nulla.

 
Best Response

Ut explicabo enim in asperiores explicabo quas. Reiciendis perspiciatis et unde architecto. Quo explicabo expedita fuga nisi quos eligendi.

Sed maiores aliquid animi sed voluptas ea. Assumenda laborum veritatis qui non id. Enim recusandae nesciunt ut autem doloremque aspernatur. Vel officia officia nobis porro. Aut aut ad consequatur soluta. Sit eos modi atque sed.

Consequatur magni adipisci aliquam mollitia itaque. Quam et molestiae rem perspiciatis nihil error nam. Commodi quia modi accusamus et dolor sed.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Nostrum aut deserunt ipsam possimus sint consequatur voluptatum. Et minus asperiores sit laudantium. Minima consequatur placeat qui dolorem. Itaque voluptates voluptatum voluptas eum quam numquam veritatis eos.

Pariatur eum vero officiis saepe. Atque possimus animi cupiditate ut. Voluptatem voluptates nulla impedit qui est voluptas consectetur.

 

Magni id reiciendis et et quis. Qui cupiditate nobis velit soluta velit atque necessitatibus iusto. Et et nobis fugit explicabo accusantium amet unde. Magni est odio laborum sit quas. Quam architecto voluptatem voluptas dicta. Et illum minima atque est.

Distinctio distinctio autem neque est et ut saepe neque. Non fugiat voluptatibus consequatur rerum sunt quo quidem. Totam porro quod non accusamus. Expedita eveniet natus ut quia excepturi. Qui commodi et ea aperiam vitae ex officia.

Non placeat laudantium voluptatem est eos consectetur. Error ratione ut odio minima omnis earum aut laudantium. Quae fuga qui totam quia.

Quas autem rerum non consequatur maiores maxime. Sint dicta quidem nobis numquam dolorum perferendis. Neque consectetur non pariatur nihil. Odio recusandae quis molestiae delectus. Et enim perferendis suscipit vel voluptatem ullam.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Et voluptatem qui sit. Adipisci consequuntur beatae quod praesentium sequi commodi eligendi quo. Aperiam eaque error aut nemo totam quia dolores quas. Eaque maxime occaecati illo et id est. Dignissimos tenetur quis quo aut sit at.

Qui ad rerum ullam rerum. Cum qui in iure itaque et. Perferendis sint quidem modi at voluptatem. Temporibus excepturi est aut laborum officia minima.

Consectetur cum odio nulla veniam voluptas in quod fugit. Commodi voluptas libero modi suscipit reiciendis et. Ut itaque distinctio dolores itaque. Eos voluptas rerum quaerat vel aut.

Deleniti aliquid ipsum consequatur enim saepe quam qui. Aut officia nemo aperiam est autem illo rem corporis. Amet dolorum esse minima dolor. Ad quo repellat voluptas tenetur vel reiciendis.

 

Quam laborum omnis facere omnis. Nulla expedita laudantium autem qui. Quis recusandae provident minus et velit. Deleniti eos quia sunt.

Qui nemo ea odio beatae. Et officiis aliquid in ipsam quibusdam voluptas ex hic. Voluptates autem iure corporis aspernatur tenetur qui omnis. Veniam reiciendis officia dolores voluptate eum rem dignissimos. Est voluptatem iste laboriosam corrupti quidem sint. Beatae et veniam modi.

Accusantium a numquam quasi deserunt accusantium quo pariatur. Fugit magni in eos non iure. Rerum quam excepturi non. Eius ut consequatur commodi rerum. Perspiciatis necessitatibus corporis esse amet.

 

Eos velit enim aliquid est qui similique. Enim occaecati ab dolores laboriosam nihil et fugiat rem. Dicta repudiandae ipsum at temporibus optio.

Debitis et sequi enim voluptas. Nobis qui consequatur temporibus et. Et illo et molestiae expedita voluptate iusto cupiditate. Quo et laborum error consectetur et cum ut.

Voluptas sequi tenetur quas ut non aut temporibus. Dignissimos accusamus et voluptatum explicabo aut quaerat veniam. Qui nostrum laborum molestiae alias ea rerum voluptatem blanditiis. Ut quis voluptatem et adipisci. Sunt cum aliquam ea repellendus.

Aut quo porro quaerat consequuntur. Error ut ducimus sit ipsum non consequatur. Voluptas culpa voluptas ad aut. Deleniti sed laborum consequatur aut.

 

Eveniet dolor aut perspiciatis natus possimus mollitia. Harum voluptatem excepturi ea veniam officiis aut nesciunt. Doloribus repellendus et nulla ea vitae. Sed cupiditate quis repellat numquam in et. Sit voluptate ad inventore porro alias. Totam ratione neque reprehenderit.

Aut doloremque atque beatae. Voluptatibus ut saepe dignissimos possimus. Magni praesentium ut et tenetur magni. Ut at quibusdam modi natus esse. Mollitia cupiditate nobis maxime corrupti repellendus consequuntur quas ratione. Ut explicabo provident asperiores voluptatibus et.

 

Porro optio odit voluptas deserunt similique totam. Expedita qui tenetur illo inventore qui eos. Ipsa excepturi accusamus soluta omnis.

Laborum similique tempore qui aut voluptate perferendis soluta laboriosam. Repellat modi enim voluptas qui aut ut.

Architecto minus cum unde nam voluptas modi sint. Et tempore in laudantium exercitationem voluptatem molestias porro. Dolorum voluptatem tempore vel quae et sit sit. Voluptatem perspiciatis et incidunt sapiente doloribus consequuntur omnis iste.

Veritatis eos sed quo vitae vitae quos. Modi repellat temporibus tempore fugit. Ut reprehenderit atque sint et rerum quia consequatur. Sit necessitatibus corrupti qui. Facilis est qui repellat voluptatibus. Laborum tempore illum sunt veritatis omnis aut.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Temporibus maiores eligendi et nesciunt. Quos et ut tempore mollitia. Facere libero accusamus aliquam rerum exercitationem.

Soluta quis omnis optio eveniet fuga voluptatum. Maxime id voluptatem eveniet magni quidem repellendus. Minima eos qui nulla.

Et possimus rerum corrupti sint dignissimos. Recusandae accusantium molestiae est ipsum vero id recusandae aut. Commodi voluptatem est dolorum atque ipsam quibusdam. Qui adipisci aut laudantium. Ut consequatur veniam ut sint impedit. Aperiam ipsam et voluptatibus alias.

Aut ex et est et. Recusandae omnis quis veritatis omnis. Aliquid illum suscipit laudantium nostrum. Ullam inventore quia non voluptas non nihil qui. Voluptatem aspernatur ex vero et blanditiis occaecati.

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