IBM business consultant vs Big-4 audit

If you are looking to do Consulting, you should go with IBM. I would even say, if you are looking to do anything besides accounting, you should go with IBM consulting.

I worked in audit in one of those BIG4: 1) It is not easy to transfer (close to impossible) 2) Besides Deloitte, the other 3 consulting practices are similar to IBM (or worse) 3) Getting your CPA is useless if you are not working in accounting 4) Exit opps: if you are in audit, all of them will be Senior Accountant to Assistant Controller (depending of experience) and maybe Financial analyst.

Only go with the Big 4 if you want to do accounting.

I think you have an easy choice to make. I would imagine a lot of people with auditing offers would prefer to be with IBM consulting, rather than audit. I could be wrong but exit opps for IBM consulting will likely be greater and more diverse than audit.

What country are you in? I'm at IBM and 30% of CbDers (2 year program for entry level consultants) have international assignments.

Think of it this way.

IBM is a Fortune 10. Not a fortune 500, a Fortune 10. And they're making consulting its primary profit-driver in the future with selling its software package solutions to. You're going to be IBM's cash cow, and you'll be treated as such.

And IBM's new CEO used to be the driving force behind the consulting arm of the company.

I'm totally biased. But those are the facts. You can PM me if you want to talk more.

Thanks for everyone's advise. IBM is definitely very strong in US. But in my country (Hong Kong), the office is not quite big (1,000 staff total, 1xx consultants). From the sharing the office in Hong Kong is very locally focused serving all local clients, which is kind of separated from the rest of the IBM offices. There is no chance for international assignments (never heard of anybody got a chance of travelling from the sharing).

IBM's consulting business doesn't rank very high compared to other consulting firms. If I also lack the chance of international exposure, would it be difficult to jump to other firms? (especially IBM is a little technical than strategy focused)

It's not crazy technical if you're a part of Global Business Services. If you're a part of Global Technology Services then yes. Unless those two aren't separate at your country?

And fyi, never say you're "above a position" in regards to audit. Life doesn't give a damn about you or fairness, and you're certainly better off than 95% of the population.

Technically Fortune 18 company Xepa....join us at PwC, we're a great growth opportunity ;)

In all honesty go to the GBS consulting offer first. Audit is great for moving to corporate finance, but I haven't seen an "easy" flow into the consulting side of things, whereas it would be easier to lateral from IBM GBS to another firm if you ever decided to. Type of experience when you're young is key.

On the flip side, if you are worried about being able to cut it as a consultant Auditors always have work, no real risk in it.

Isn't IBM all IT Consulting? If you are thinking Management Consulting and go into IBM, I think you will be disappointed. Also, it's quite hard to move from IT consulting to management consulting without going back for MBA.

Don't know about you, but this does not sound like IT consulting to me. http://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/gbs/strategy/business-strategy.html

Hm... in a similar situation. Where I got Audit in Big 4 and now am trying to get into advisory by applying for other Big 4 for that department. Maybe try that. I have other offers in Engineering but am being advised by people my parents age to go for audit since it's a stable job with CA and long terms prospects. For the same pros you mentioned in your post.

IBM bought PWC because it had a good strategy practice...but now it's more like..."our strategy is that you use these 7 IBM software packages to help your business!"

Hahaha, so it's not PURE sexy strategy like McKinsey, but it'snot ERP implementations either (it can be if you want though). It's somewhere in between.

For example, Brazil hired IBM to help coordinate its city layout strategy and crisis response operations for the World Cup and Olympics that are coming up. They hired McKinsey to do it first, but they gave IBM the slide deck and said "do that and make changes based on what's feasible/more efficient"

Disney also hired IBM to work on its layout for its China theme park it's building right now. From where to put the rides to maximize profit potential/energy savings/line efficiency whatevers.

Operations+strategy. You can see from both those examples how it incorporates both.

I'm definitely not sugar coating it. But there are cool projects beyond the typical "which market should we enter and why" strategy assignments. Hopefully those are good examples!

Also, for the crowd that shits on IBM, I was called up about full time opportunities for Associate Strategy at Google and Technical Engagement Manager at Amazon. Both were impressed by my IBM offer (i had already signed) and told me to re-connect with them in 1-2 years. So at least within the Tech sector, IBM is gold.

@ TylerT. Oh fuck me you're right. It's 18 not 8. I fail. Sorry. hahahah, that's a bad sign that I can't even quote our numbers right! And I won PWC's case competition at my school twice, so I definitely have bias toward PWC versus the other big 4 ;)

Eh, I always loved IBM's data analytics group, I think it has incredible potential. With the masses of data, and the ability to analyze it (both the people and the hardware) there are exceptional opportunities to improve how things operate. GBS' Smart World campaign (last I saw) is very forward thinking. Playing with IBM's core strengths and spinning it in a way that helps solve problems.

Again, I'd take IBM GPS over Audit.

I'm in a simular position. If I want to build up the skills to be considered for Executive roles one day, is Audit a better option, because the increased focus on Director Duties means a company director needs to know how to read and understand a balance sheet and the financial position of a business? Or would it be better to keep developing business accumen though working with GBS?

A lot of these decisions are going to come down to personal preference...but I don't know any auditors that like their job. I know quite a few auditors and work some former auditors.

If you want to learn how to read financial statements, take an accounting class...or if you really love accounting, work in accounting, not audit. I think the only way audit would be a better choice than anything in the world is if you have an extremely dry to non-existent sense of humor, you enjoy doing boring stuff for hours on end in terrible locations, and you love rules because they provide order. I have a close friend who audits derivatives and unwinds complicated balance sheets...but he hates his job just a much as when he was first year associate counting salad dressing packets in a factory.

Xepa- I received an offer from IBM CBD as well. You are making it sound very good. Is it worth to look towards the big 4 for management consulting, or should I just accept the IBM offer?

Alexandra: You might consider Deloitte's S&O consulting over IBM (though be careful to avoid IT or HC unless that's what you want to do), but that depends on how long you have to get that offer... and definitely don't go audit with the expectation of transfering over to consulting. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I wouldn't really think of the other three in the Big 4 as likely to be better than your IBM offer.

@Alexandra - I interviewed with Deloitte's S&O group and IBM's CBD program. I found IBM a clear cut favorite due to it's F20 hold, innovative strategies, and it's enormous network across sectors/markets. For me, it allows great upward mobility, a load of internal movement options, and a great name to put on your resume should you choose to exit or apply to top notch b-schools. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

It's not worth typing a super long response to one person, but I can post something general here.

DISCLAIMER 1: This advice isn't super meaningful and you should really PM me to get into a back-and-forth discussion about YOUR interests so I can tell you whether IBM is the offer for you or not.

DISCLAIMER 2: These are my own opinions and not the opinions of IBM.

I hate people who only say good things about their program. I tell it like it is, both good and bad.

80% of people who get a MBB offer vs. IBM should take MBB. I didn't say 100% (despite what all the biased people on the management consulting form say) for the following reasons.

1) IBM has the F20 aspect to it. WTF does this mean to you (other than prestige, which I hate, and do not consider valid criteria)? It means that IBM hires 5 nobel prize laureates, subject matter experts across the world in every subject area, and had really smart people. IBM doesn't say "we'll give you a market penetration strategy and assess this problem on what you SHOULD do." IBM says...."we have the smartest people on the planet, and here's what you WILL do." It's results oriented, end-to-end. Good thing about Deloitte, from what I understand, is that they're also results oriented.

It means that my name is going to be published on patent filing, because I'm working on an international team of 4 people that invented a new product (nothing to do with CBD, but you don't join IBM for the CBD program alone...you join IBM because it's freaking IBM).

Honestly, like 70% of my colleagues in CBD do not network enough. They don't realize "hey, I can reach out to the Director of the Venture Capital Group and schedule a meeting in 2 weeks." Or..."hey, I can reach out to an amazing researcher in Europe that made a medical breakthrough and make friends."

2) IBM strategy consulting is like the liberal arts of technology. (I'm always amused by colleagues who hate their jobs cuz it's too techy...no ****. It's freaking IBM. You know what's cool about technology? The fact that doctors currently diagnose patients based off their life's worth of knowledge in med school, but IBM built a machine that stores every patient record from the entire medical journal along with every research study and uses that to diagnose patients batter than any doctor on the planet. This saves time, and saves lives.

IBM consultants are the face of the company. We go to clients and sell this vision to them, then techy people actually do it. (unbiased aside: entry level people DO menial implementation stuff as well, but the higher up you get the more big-picture your stuff gets). We get all the smartest research and technology in the world, and we use those tools to make a tangible bottom line impact to businesses in the real world.

NOTE: The more "unsure" of what you want to do in your life, the more you should do Deloitte S&O. Everything in IBM is technology. With that said...technology is the future and will be the disruptive driving force IMO so...

3) The CBD Program allows you to get Senior Consultant status after 2 years (provided you don't completely suck). You know who my Senior Consultant colleagues are at IBM? Yale MBA grad, UChicago MBA grad, Duke MBA grad, etc. Yes, I'm on that level after 2 years (my salary isn't most likely but the title will).

BAD THINGS ABOUT IBM

1) A lot of the people who join the program don't know what they're getting themselves into. They say "I want to do strategy work" when...well, do you actually know anything about the industry? "No, but I can learn on the fly and pick it up because I'm super smart!" Or...the politically correct way of saying it "No, but it's irrelevant because I'm focused to 1 specific problem within the company so industry expertise is not necessarily needed." That's nice. That's true. That's not IBM's value proposition. IBM has the smartest people and dedicated experts working on things using technologies that make Excel look like child's play. You're going to have to know your stuff. So...I'd say like 80% of kids get testing/assistant/ERP roles at CBD in one point or another (my own guess). A lot of kids can't deal with that.

2) Loneliness. IBM isn't like a MBB team where you could work with the same team on multiple engagements. A lot of times (if not ALL the time) you'll always be working with completely different people on each engagement. A lot of your friends you keep in touch with online through instant messenger (or happy hours on Fridays if you're in the same city). What I view as a strength (I meet lots more people) others view as a weakness (IBM doesn't care about you, treats you as a commodity with random teams they put you on, etc. etc.)

3) Initiative Needed. You need initiative to get on projects you desire. You need resilience. You need to be okay with getting rejected or ignored by several people, because the only relationships that matter are the ones that help you. So many people in CBD say that they're unhappy with their specific role on their current engagement. I say they don't have the initiative to get on what they want. And they clearly didn't know what they were signing up for.

4) Salary after CBD. I haven't been promoted yet, but from what I hear the promotion bumps in salary are not competitive with MBB, even if CBD salary is comparable to within the 90% of MBB (with 60% of the hours worked). I'm not evaluating IBM from a Senior Consultant standpoint. My views shift and evolve there. I'm evaluating ONLY the CBD program.

I've told several people last year NOT to pick IBM. It really depends on you, and these general threads aren't nearly as helpful as getting into a back-and-forth candid dialogue with me. I'm here to help you with your future, whatever decision that might be.

Wow, thanks everyone! I really appreciate you all taking the time to respond. Yes, Deloitte is being very shady right now (this description fits best), the big 4 that I will be interviewing with just sent me some bs online exam to take, Accenture when I met with them mentioned 3 rounds of interview and a presentation. Why are all these firms acting like they are McKinsey, setting all these obstacles without having anything much to show at the end. Very frustrating.

I am glad to hear good things about IBM cbd though :)