Is this actually what it is like working.
Hi all,
It's about 3 months into my commercial/corporate banking job. It seems like most of my work is aimed at portfolio management, but I wasn't expecting it to be so process heavy rather than actual analysis. Spending a lot of time moving a ton of data into our system and any analysis kind of rests on pure vibes and that "we need to be competitive since we're trying to grow" sacrificing covenants. Even the worst of our credits given to us by our IB team are almost forced to be approved which they aren't even that stressed, it's just a bad decision all for the sake of staking a relationship.
Let's say that we were doing an analysis we're kind of just stuck following the credit metrics and making sure we're not entering a danger zone so for example if we give them this new RCF, what does their borrowing base look like, would their DSCR / FCC go above threshold values of putting them in danger, what did their average utilization look like, and then its just an optimization problem while also competing against 9 other banks for 100bps ??
Now I will say my wlb is great I'm def less than 35 hours a week not because I'm leaving early solo, but because everyones gone or offline before me! The issue is that I feel like I'm missing something here, I'm keeping my free time preoccupied by reading books, forwarding any news, buildling personal dashboards to build memory on margins, reading credit memos, and practicing LBOs nad Powerpoint (since I haven't even had to open this once in my entire time here).
I'm comped at a good amount relative to wlb. But in the mean time what could I be doing to build that credit acumen or investor mindset. Everything just looks bad, but I don't really know how to assess that risk or understand what's going on motive wise or even news wise no matter how many credit memos / pms I talk to ask them about. It's always been defaulted to long time borrower strong management it's fine. I don't think I could get away with using that as an interview answer.
Based on the most helpful WSO content, your experience aligns with many early-career professionals in commercial/corporate banking. The role often leans heavily on process-driven tasks, especially in portfolio management, and can feel less analytical than expected. However, there are actionable steps you can take to build your credit acumen and develop an investor mindset:
1. Deepen Your Credit Analysis Skills
2. Enhance Analytical Thinking
3. Understand the Bigger Picture
4. Adopt an Investor Mindset
5. Leverage Your Free Time
6. Network and Seek Mentorship
7. Plan for the Future
Your current role provides a solid foundation, but by proactively building your skills and seeking out learning opportunities, you'll position yourself for more analytical and impactful roles in the future. Keep pushing to understand the "why" behind decisions, and you'll develop the investor mindset you're aiming for.
Sources: Thoughts on CRI (Chartered Realty Investor) designation?, Credit Analyst Q&A, Credit Analyst Q&A, Career Path Starting as Credit Analyst, Asset Management vs Investment Banking 101
You are in the AI danger zone, this is not the time in your career to be coasting by.
I agree. A lot of the "manual" work is getting shelved offshore and my expectation is that the underwriting/analysis portions would be fully done by the main team, but with how much they're pushing AI to do a lot of the work I'm not really sure what the future looks like.
Fortunately, I'm still interested in everything about the credit markets and if you have any other recommendations on what I could do on my free time along with what I've listed on top I'd be happy to take a crack at it.
This sounds a bit abnormal to me, even for commercial banking. Is this a large bank? Most banks I work with (though not all) are actually quite knowledgeable and go much deeper into analysis. The work life balance does sound awesome though.
Sounds like you want to leave? If so yes, I agree you need do stuff outside of work to build tour skillset. I would focus stock investing. Follow what the PE guys try to learn plus read some credit books, and you will be set (others have covered what books / what to learn). Also run your stock portfolio live. Develop a thesis for each position and write a full memo. Check in after a year and figure out what you got right or wrong.
Hi,
Yes it's a big bank. Some of what I'm experienced could definitely just be because I'm junior/new grad and time with these clients. I've spent a lot of time looking into the past deals and talking to both the RM/PM for those relationships and doing the barebone industry research for all of these different subsectors. The issue is that I'm missing a ton of context even when talking with the PM/RM, a lot of missing documentation on decisions and so I can really only see the end goal but not why we structured something a certain way, what alternatives, or discussion on the analysis, but even in these discussion calls the analysis isn't so deep. Complaints aside, I actually do like the overarching idea of the work, if I were to just think about the high level and not so much the small details its very interesting and yes wlb is awesome and some catered food sometimes I think office culture here is strong.
The short-term idea now is to leave, I do want to stay in the credit markets though so forgive me if I don't really understand the idea of becoming a strong stock investor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you're saying that I should develop an independent investment judgement because I'm not getting that ability in my current job and because equities is visible?
If you have any other recs on some other things I could be doing outside of work to build my skillset I'd be happy. I'll keep working on reading as much as I can, retaining my excel/powerpoint skills, building models, and trying to build out my understanding of my portfolio in the mean time!
For reference: I've already asked, Internally I can't transfer groups (IBD) / sector until my program is over. So its either I leave or stay in for the time period and then hope someone would take me.
Distressed Debt Analysis by Stephen Moyer, Margin of Safety by Seth Klarman, Investment Banking by Rosenbaum. These are some of the best things to read in my view. After that, I would get really good at some mock investment firm case studies (PE interview set works fine). Then for a deal you do at the bank go above and beyond to learn about the industry. If there are related public companies, use sell side initiations of coverage and reading prospectus (424B) and 10-K SEC filings to learn about the industry. If you have case basic technical questions down (read wso and other interview guides) and can crush a case study, you can move to another area of finance with enough effort. Do 3 months of hard prep and start reaching out / interviewing. Recruiting is a complete crap shoot, so don't get discouraged if your first couple don't work. With enough at bats, eventually something will go your way. Investing your PA is not a bad thing as well. Don't need to have a whole portfolio but 2 - 3 stocks you own that you know super cold and have solid fundamental reasons you own.
It's never going to be intellectually stimulating enough for you, big dawg. Unless you start out at a hedge fund or tac ops, you'll be disappointed by the amount of admin/process work wherever you are.
Good to know. I was hoping that this was just the case because I was doing senior lending.
I know the path to those areas are the traditional path of post-IB, but by any chance do you have any personal recommendations of things I could do in my down time whether during work (a way to look at credits / questions I could be asking my pm) or out of work practice (I plan on networking a couple months from now don't want to come off like I'm trying to jump ship this early in my career.
I'm way too far removed from the game (currently running my own business, haven't done a lick of finance in years). Someone else please chime in...
Best guess is that yes this is normal at this juncture based on the following statements you made:
Which to me indicates you are just in the analyst pool and a spread monkey just getting started. In which case, you are not part of the deal team and therefore tangentially involved in transactions which explains the lack of context and immersive, experiential learning.
If I am correct so far; then yes, this is normal and has been the way of things for some time. As noted by others, it is also likely to be severely strained by AI if that technology matures.
I would also echo that generally, the intellectual stimulation only goes up by degree; not in kind once you advance beyond this initial phase. That is not to say there isn't a ton to learn and I would emphasize you could spend decades learning the specific nuance of certain industries and the legal details on security interests and such. But if the aspect you described about the outcome (loan approval) being (somewhat) independent of the analytical conclusions bothers you because "we need to grow"; that is normal and you need to understand that is a feature of this business - not a bug.
Lastly; understand and internalize the thought that the "process" IS the risk management. You are right to observe that the components of that "process" by themselves are just mechanical entries into a system and using checklists which are checked by one group and then checked again by another. The accuracy of the data is sometimes secondary. But in terms of the "business of banking" and "credit risk management" at the portfolio level - the process matters to the regulators and therefore (whether good or not) is what gets a lot of attention by management.
Hang in there and keep learning!
I appreciate the response. I think your description is pretty accurate to where I sit except we don't necessarily spread anymore since offshore team does it. Other than that that makes a lot of sense why the work feels more process oriented and the point of the process being the risk management gives me a better way of looking at the work!
I think the part that I'm struggling is what I'm supposed to be learning or paying attention to at this stage. Our trainings covers primarily the process aspect and even reading the past memos I feel like I'm absorbing a lot of the information without really knowing how to interpret it. I've just been taking note of the ones that I've read from books but I don't really understand how they're being applied in practice.
I've asked PMs across groups about their thought process, but understandably a lot of the answers are defaulting to industry experience or experience with their CFO or company. I've also heard some variation of "that's just how it is" quite a bit, which is a hard takeaway since I'm lacking years of experience.
I probaby should have been clearer about that in my original post. A lot of this frustration isn't the process work or that each credit isn't requiring deep analysis to make a decision (even though this was just a surprise to me in general) it's moreso I don't understand why we're doing certain things. I can follow the process, arrive at the same numbers, but I don't understand what questions I'm supposed to be having for a client or what we're trying to answer.
Is this something that I'd just develop over time seeing enough of these loans come through and then the pattern recognition kicking in or are there specific questions that I should be asking myself to connect the analysis back to the decision or even just for my own learning experience. If you have any other words of advice for a newgrad credit student I'd be happy to take it in while I have the free time to add it to my routine.
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