New clothing label from England research - Advice would be greatly appreciated
Hi everyone,
I’m James, a fashion designer and entrepreneur from England, and I am starting a new clothing label that aims to cater to high achieving and ambitious men and women (entrepreneurs, corporate executives, city types, public figures, etc.) and I am trying to understand what the people in this world look for in fashion; people like yourselves who work hard, are highly ambitious, understand the importance of dressing and presenting yourselves well, and like the nicer things in life.
While I am not here to sell to anyone or annoy anyone with my research, I would be very grateful if anyone could offer some insights into:
- what you think is missing in menswear or womenswear that you wish existed?
- Or how any of you feel about a new label, such as mine, for example, looking to create high quality formal and casual clothes with exclusive designs and luxury features, and branding that speaks to your world, your aspirations and the narratives that surround your world as finance professionals?
Any points of view, general comments, or advice would be gratefully received and welcomed.
Many thanks.
Based on the most helpful WSO content, here are some insights and advice for your new clothing label targeting high-achieving professionals:
Focus on Fit and Tailoring:
Quality Over Quantity:
Bridging Formal and Casual:
Brand Identity and Storytelling:
Addressing Gaps in the Market:
Sustainability and Ethical Practices:
Accessories and Details:
Pricing Strategy:
Regional Considerations:
Engagement and Feedback:
By addressing these points, your label can cater to the needs and aspirations of high-achieving professionals while standing out in a competitive market. Best of luck with your venture!
Sources: I believe in dressing for success…But how?, Fashion Businesses? where are you?, What's the Middle/Upper-Middle-Class Clothing Brand Universe?, Q&A: I am a mens fashion stylist and the founder of a mens custom suiting business, New To Formal Fashion? Start Here. PT1
Thank you for this excellent response Monkey Bot, there's some great ideas in here that chime with comments made by members, such as those on fit and tailoring. All very good.
I'd also be very keen to hear more from some humans as well. Thoughts, anecdotal, ideas. There are no silly answers and I'm just keen to hear what people think on the subject and my questions if possible?
Looking forward to the responses :)
How exactly are you going to aim for catering to
You can't make clothes that signal high status without the brand or the history. You are better off making clothes that are high quality and look and feel good rather than trying to play the brand/status game. That usually appeals to wannabe rich people (think of people trying to imitate Iman Gadzhi old money)
Thanks very much for the feedback, you make some very good points and I will certainly take onboard what you're saying.
Firstly, it would go without saying that the clothes really need to be high quality and need to have a great cut and fit to them - and from what yourself and others have said about the importance of fit - this seems to be the right way to go.
In terms of not being able to make high status clothes without the brand or history, I think you're right in the sense that trying to position ourselves as a heritage brand with no history would be an inauthentic approach and the wrong way to go (although many new brands still attempt this).
We are not directly trying to play a brand/status game as such. We want to use our marketing message to appeal to the values and aspirations of high achieving people. Values such as health and fitness, personal development, goal setting, the importance of making the most of yourself and importance of what that signals to your peers, superiors, and clients, among others.
If you'll humour me, imagine a marketing advert video of a professional man or woman living in the city, rising early in the morning to go running or hitting the gym, then returning home for a healthy breakfast before jumping in the shower and then getting dressed for the office in our brand's clothes and then walking through the city skyscrapers to work.
Quite a simple advertisement video but one that speaks to professional and highly ambitious people who have a similar lifestyle and value system. To my mind, branding is everything and will be vital to differentiating ourselves from the competition.
Does any of this make sense to you?
Can I ask:
What do you look for in the clothes you buy?
Do you feel there is anything missing from the brands you usually shop for? What do you wish you could buy that you can't at your price point?
I hope you don't mind me firing more questions at you?
We would actually like to put together an informal advisory group of potential customers and clients that might be able to offer new insights into clothing for people in your sector in return for gifted samples of our first pieces. Is this something that might interest you?
Thanks again for taking the time thus far in answering to the original post.
Nothing
I don’t feel anything positive about it.
If I want nice clothes, I will go to a nice, established brand, and buy them there. If I want really nice clothes, I will have them made by a tailor.
It seems you want to target this buyer segment because you think “rich people spend money”. It’s nit that easy. The people here buy Gucci loafers and Ferragamo ties because of two reasons: one, perceived quality, and two, perceived brand image. You will not, under any circumstances, disrupt the brand positioning of a two hundred year old fashion house. You will never reach that level of prestige.
Your only hope is to make something of equivalent quality for less. If you can make me a quality pair of oxfords and sell them for $300, when an equivalent pair would typically go for $1,000, then you’ll have a buyer. That’s differentiating. But again, if you’re looking to enter this market because you think people with wealth are easy to fleece, you’re doomed to failure. You’re not going to make something that’s materially better than Loro Piana from a design point, and you’re not going to dethrone the brand image, so your only chance is to compete on price and you’ll need to do it very aggressively.
Thanks very much for your feedback and views. These are exactly the kinds of comments I welcome - very open, honest and authentic.
To get to the crux of your message, you would welcome a new label offering high quality products at more accessible price points? Would you say that this could be what's missing from menswear? Or at least what might turn your head from those top tier heritage brands, Gucci, etc.?
In regard to your comments about us targeting this buyer segment because "rich people spend money", that really isn't our intention at all. We are interested in targeting highly ambitious and high achieving people so we are really interested in people based on those values, which is the differentiating factor, we believe. Although highly ambitious people do tend to earn more, as a general rule, this has more to do with values and lifestyle that separate those people from many others who don't hold themselves to a higher standard and don't wish to make the most of themselves. And we are certainly not wanting to fleece anyone, we're genuinely interested in serving these people with the products they want to succeed and become the best version of themselves. In addition, no-one is trying or will succeed in disrupting the brands you mention. There is no need to do that for that is not the market we are going for.
But you would say that the kind of brand I mention would only be able to differentiate itself on price? Don't you think that many brands already do that and it becomes a race to the bottom?
Yours are very interesting points though.
Do you think the concept I described could be of interest to yourself and your peers? Perhaps if you were able to see the concept in the marketing images and videos?
Many thanks again for your feedback.
Briefly, on a further note. You have described something we have been thinking about doing for a while now; offering high quality clothes that feature design details (think the Gucci horse-bit hardware, or fine embroidery or applique features) at more accessible price points. Do you think there could be a market for this?
Yes, the only way you’ll be able to differentiate is on price. I’ve done a lot of work on market entry and right-to-win in this sector. Brass tacks, there are three core ways to win in the fashion market:
- Design
- Brand
- Price
Design: There is literally nothing you can design that is going to be materially (meaning sufficiently, not clothing material) different to what is already out there. You keep talking about how you want to make clothes that represent “ambitious, high achieving” people. What does that even mean? Steel buttons and lapels on trousers? People like nice looking clothes, that’s it. Stop overthinking it.
Brand: As mentioned, you will not overtake established fashion houses. You’ll be playing against fast fashion.
Price: As mentioned, this is your chance. Make good stuff for much, much less. Markups are insane these days. If you make Canali quality for Zara prices, you’ll have something different and people will take notice. Otherwise, you’ll be like everyone else.
Do a personal case study on Le Alfre. Dude is on LinkedIn.
Thanks for this. Yes, I've seen this guy on YouTube, funnily enough. What do you think about their offering? Do you like the clothes? It's something you would buy?
Yea it's cool. I'd probably buy a shirt at some point to try it out. He obviously has a small following so far since he knows how to work the brand. I'd say though that this fucking forum is very often an echo chamber since most people are in high finance and have very similar values. This doesn't necessarily translate to the broader business environment as a whole but if you do target this crowd, it's a pretty decent litmus test.
I agree with most of what people say here, you won't dethrone the hundreds year old fashion brands because that's kind of the allure of them. But this doesn't mean you need to compromise on your mission. If you make large amounts of quality shirts for a reasonable price (think Uniqlo's non-iron dress shirts which are ~$40-60) then people will buy them. Most people aren't going to make enough money in their early career to justify buying 10 custom dress shirts or those from super high-end fashion brands. Despite being bankers I'm sure those below the VP level are still going to be somewhat money conscious and won't want to drop hundreds of $ on a shirt. If you can turn your marketing into quality shirts at a reasonable price for the everyday finance/corporate worker (and they're actually good) I can see it going somewhere.
Again, may not align with your initial vision but this is just my opinion. Once you establish yourself as a quality clothing produce you just need to maintain that brand until you become a 'legacy' brand so to speak, then you can start charging the higher prices.
Thanks for your comments as well. I must admit, I'm not a huge fan of Uniqlo, but I get what they are doing, admire the results, and get where you're coming from. It's really interesting how many in this sector, up to a certain level, are quite price sensitive and unwilling to drop larger amounts of money on apparel without very good reason or justification. As you say, once we are established we can start to think about higher quality and price points.
Thanks for spending the time to write these comments. Primary research like this is pure gold and I'm grateful for you taking the time. Any other thoughts, please don't hesitate to write them down.
Thanks to everyone that has offered their POV on our concept and ideas - the response has been better than I thought and helped either dispel some of our ideas, or confirmed others, so this is a terrific results so far.
While I may still have some of you viewing this post, can I ask:
Do many of you spend much or have an interest in nightwear? Pyjamas, dressing gown, joggers and hoodie?
Again, any thoughts most appreciated and this makes a huge contribution to us 'getting it right' faster than without this kind of research, so many thanks to all for contributing.
I replied elswhere - but to answer these if it's helpful:
Uniquely in finance? No. I can't say it encourages unique menswear trends. Back to formal is the best I've got - people realizing that lululemon, as much as they are comfortable, are not dress pants or people coming back to the office looking for new clothing. Hybrid footwear is probably one of the biggest, as with the remote/hotelling now in offices, carrying extra shoes or keeping them there is a nonstarter. I might be an old soul - but I will tell you that I very much appreciate non technical items across the board when in meetings. There are very, very few blazers/pants/shirts that are athleisure/semi dress that can stack up.
Hi again, Addinator. Thanks again for answer these further research questions. This is very useful and especially interesting the kinds of numbers you're prepared to spend on shirts, trousers - certainly enough for very nice quality, but not stratospheric either. Fit and fabric being very important also. As well as having clothes altered, something you're very comfortable doing, by the sound of it.
Again, as with your excellent reply earlier, you cover so many interesting points it is difficult to address everything, and I'm conscious of not taking up too much for your time. I wonder if you might offer your thoughts on a couple more questions?
Any thoughts appreciated. I realise you're very busy so no rush if you're busy, of course. Regards.
Look at the brand Pini Parma in Italy. They're ~10 years old and are a suit supply copycat that is crushing in Italy. They made one thing really well (pants) then expanded into other mens clothing items (suiting, outerwear, shirts, etc.). "Quiet luxury" style with high quality fabrics (think loro or zegna) and paid for good designers, tailors, etc. to make the product really strong. They have a handful of storefronts and brand ambassadors. I'd find a niche and follow a model like that.
Hi RisingScholar, thanks very much for the tip. I have come across this label before but wasn't aware of their origin with trousers. Funnily enough, we were thinking of starting with pants and then also branching out from there. We are also looking for tailors and dressmakers to really lock-in on the fit and quality, which as you say, could be pivotal to arriving at a great product. Starting with a niche is the only way to go, I think.
Out of interest, what items do you think you would start with? Pants, as well? Or polos, hoodies, jeans, etc.?
If you're trying to break into the high-end fashion space for professionals, the biggest challenge is credibility. Established brands like Loro Piana, Zegna, and Tom Ford have decades (if not centuries) of history and reputation, which is what people pay for just as much as the quality itself. A new label won’t command that level of prestige out of the gate.
That said, you can still carve out a niche by focusing on:
If I were starting a new brand, I'd begin with trousers or shirts since they’re staple pieces that professionals cycle through frequently. Build a reputation for quality and fit first, then expand into other categories like outerwear or accessories.
Hi John, thanks very much for the contribution and apologies for the late reply. I'm grateful for your input and thoughts on this.
I think you're absolutely right that new brands will certainly struggle to gain the same level of credibility as the luxury brands you mention. And this, of course, is one of the age-old problems of starting and building a new enterprise in this space. However, there are of course new brands starting all the time and would certainly appear to be shaking up the space and taking some sales away from these established luxury brands with huge heritage. And they are usually doing it through one (or more) of the strategies you mention. And the three strategies you mention are the most likely to help gain some attention and traction, I would think.
I also think you're right in suggesting we start with trousers and shirts. I don't think one can go far wrong in offering trousers first. Shirts could be trickier, as there is pretty much anything and everything one can think of in terms of fit, style, materials, and various price points. Again, trying to tick all the boxes (fit, style, quality, price) could help us compete in what is a very competitive market.#
These are really great suggestions though and will help greatly in choosing the right strategies and approaches with which to launch the project. If you have any other thoughts or suggestions please let me know.
Speaking of which, can I ask: do you find yourself seeking out more hybrid items that can transition to other activities? What sort of clothes trends do you find yourself gravitating towards in recent months/years? More casualwear in the office? Thanks again John.
I really like the idea of brands like Quince, madewell and everlane that make high quality essentials at reasonable price points. The issue with their men’s formal wear/biz casual is that they’re made for guys who want to wear it as an aesthetic but don’t actually have a desk job. Like I’m not wearing a double breasted boxy blazer to my desk job. Or drawstring linen pants. So I like the concept, but seems like a lot of their designs miss the point.
On the flip side of that, you have all these menswear brands that advertise the stretchiest chinos ever the stretchiest dress shirt and then they end up looking like god awful. Top that off with some faux-leather white sole sneakers and you’re off to look like a goober at work.
Hello Bananalandman, thanks very much for your thoughts. You make some really interesting points and I'm with you when you mention some of the latests styles and trends of brand making clothes that won't actually be worn in a work context - even when marketed as such. Again, I hadn't heard of any of those brands you mentioned, but after having a look, I really like their websites and they do, in some respects, target some of the target customers we would aim to.
I must admit, I rather fancy some drawstring linen pants in the right situation, but as you say, not to the office or more formal settings. Can't stand sneakers as part of a formal or casual look - I'm a bit old-fashioned I suppose.
Can I ask you, do you feel that there is room for more high quality essentials at accessible price points? There seems to be quite a few brands doing this now. I suppose it comes down to having a niche alongside, or some kind of design differentiation. Any thoughts?
Also, what do you feel is missing from formal, or casual wear, that would tempt you to part with your hard earned money? An extended high waistband on suit trousers?
Many thanks again for contribution, it makes a big difference.
i want to dress more classically/nicely/formally and expand my wardrobe but i don't know what goes well with what. if you can tell me "this blazer works well in business casual settings but also pairs nicely with trousers and x sweatshirt/turtleneck, here are some examples with the full outfit" then i'm buying.
you also have to tell me "you want the sleeve to reach x, the hem should be x long, the piece you're trying on is the right size but too loose try the slim fit version" then i'm absolutely buying.
Hi Salty_Vibez, thank you for the comments and thoughts. So you're more interested in styling and fitting advice and support rather than being overly concerned with the clothing items themselves? We have thought about doing this as a supporting feature of the online store.
Would you, or anyone else for that matter, agree that this might be considered a pain-point for many professional people and their wardrobe today? That is, professionals being unsure about what to wear, when, where, and with what, in different scenarios? (Work, business formal/casual events, etc.?)
Others have suggested that the approach of offering high quality clothes with an excellent fit at lower price points would be the way to go? Would you (or anyone else) agree with this? Differentiating ourselves from the many other brands selling to professionals is absolutely crucial if we are to stand out and competing on price seems to be the way to go.
Any thoughts welcome as usual, and many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this post - the response from everyone has been brilliant and most unexpected, so thank you to all.
Sounds promising, James. What’s really missing is sharp, well-fitted clothing that feels luxurious without being loud. Subtle, elevated staples are hard to find—if you can nail that, you’re onto something.
Love your vision there’s definitely space for a brand that blends quiet luxury with real-world functionality. Many professionals are looking for timeless pieces that feel good, fit well, and subtly reflect success. Comfort without sacrificing elegance is still underrated, much like how a custom cashmere blanket combines warmth with sophistication. Excited to see how your label develops!
I think the most important thing is tailored and sophisticated with enough comfort/stretch to be in an office or at a desk (plus commuting, potentially) for potentially 12+ hours is important. I personally love dresses because you put it on and your done, but if it feels like a pajama (yet looks tailored and fashionable), you're GOLDEN. Nice blazers that have a little stretch especially in the armholes, bi/tricep where a shirt or blouse gets bunched up, or you just have to reach and you actually can, is fabulous.
Any new brand that is creative with quality fabrics that feel good on the skin is great. Fitted is fine if it moves with you. Fabric should really be soft and not itchy or scratchy. I think the branding idea is great. Please, make us look good for our presentations and conference calls!
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