Credit HF Path
Hi All - I am a current FIG IB analyst looking to break into the credit HF space and have a few questions.
1) would it be better for me to A) go straight to a credit HF if possible B) go to some hybrid value / special sits / tac opps PE shop or C) what do you guys think about moving internally at my bank and going to Distressed Credit Research after IB?
Thank you all would appreciate any advice!
Based on the most helpful WSO content, here’s a breakdown of your options and advice for breaking into the credit HF space:
1. Option A: Go Straight to a Credit HF
2. Option B: Hybrid Value / Special Sits / Tac Opps PE Shop
3. Option C: Move Internally to Distressed Credit Research
Recommendation
Additional Tips
Good luck with your transition! If you have more specific questions, feel free to ask.
Sources: Q&A: Currently at a Credit Hedge Fund, Private Equity vs Megafund Credit, Automation in fundamental finance roles
Will let others chime in on other parts of the q, but I would caution against joining a mm pod. The money is made in distressed / liability management situations so having a drawdown-sensitive leash makes it tricky. I would think the best path is to go for a credit fund (think Oaktree, Arini) that “gets it.”
Totally disagree…and I respect Arini a lot and my set up and investing style a lot closer to them (have duration etc). On a committee or two with them right now.
You can make low double digit (10-15%) a year which is better than 90% of pure deep distressed funds just by buying things that are performing stressed (8.5-12% ytw) and bet on earnings or event catalyst. Pods are set up best to do this. even now if you have strong view on orcl you can make 25%+ on back end bonds (investment grade) will be fine and won’t issue too much more debt on balance sheet. Same w coreweave bonds. Neither has any lme risk in next 12 months.
The deep distress LME trades have worked maybe 10-20% of the time (though in those cases if you picked correctly, you made a killing). LUMN, SFRFP, SATS, Bausch Health, a handful of healthcare services names that crushed in 23/24.
But on other hand there are exponentially more LMEs that look like Platinum portapotty rollup, dental roll up blow ups, packaging disasters, and 100% of Clearlake/Platinum/AmSec portfolio which is entirely turdco (somehow they’ve found a way to only buy companies whose revenue declines). The only alpha made on these sorts LMEs, even with great timing, is negative alpha. LME is stop before bk but can’t get off moving train w how illiquid credit is.
No process monkeying / being tight w advisors can fix fact a biz sucks and fundamentals get worse each quarter post lme. And good luck getting out of a chunky post lme loan without moving price down (big guys selling never good sign).
There are at least 3 pods that pay more than Arini and consistently put up better investments. I’d join those instead.
merry xmas
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Merry Xmas to you as well
How much does Arini pay vs the credit pods at various seniority levels?
The pod point is fascinating. I am at one of the scaled, old school credit funds (Canyon, DK, King Street, etc) and didn't know there were some actually good pods in credit not just flipping new issue. I am less than 1yr in so still getting lay of land.
I think coreweave and oracle are interesting longs too. but technicals are tough and everyone just staying short and adding to their shorts (at least oracle since it still looks cheap to tourists.
And the coreweave bull / bear debate won’t be settled for 4 years
Very helpful comment - are you able to provide a bit more colour on the pods you allude to as well as how these compare (or considerations) to (i) larger credit HF seats (likes of DK, CBP, Farallon, King Street, Blantyre, CQS etc.) and (ii) smaller start-up HF seats (spin-offs that have c. $750-2bn AuM but just starting, with ~3-6 investment professionals)
As an incoming FIG analyst with similar goals, thanks for posting this lol. A few questions for someone 1-2 years behind you:
Could I ask what sector within FIG you cover? Is there more merit being on something like banks/spec fin for those funds that will buy NPLs from specfins, or FTWAM/fintech so you are seen as more generalist?
Have you had hh's reach out for credit HF/special sits type roles at all? I'm guessing this would depend more on the level of your bank but presumably you are not at GS/MS/JPM FIG if theres a distressed credit desk at your bank so wondering how hard it is to get those opps.
The pods have: zero downside protection, zero career development, minimal ability to be illiquid and absorb vol in real cycles with few exceptions. It’s a horrible career decision to begin in credit at one of those places.
The vol can be hedged cheaply.
Career dev: not sure what you’re looking for. The goal is to be a better investor / make money. That can be best learnt in a seat with a smaller team, not a bureaucracy.
Liquidity: most pods in this game understand credit not nearly as liquid as equities. This does limit position sizes to some degree in certain illiquid issuers but the money the past few years has been disproportionally made in more liquid issuers and lost in the illiquid.
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