Wondering how common it is/ how difficult it is to transition between being a quant at a HF and a quant trader/researcher at a HFT/Marker Maker like JS/TwoSigma/HRT/Optiver. Which pays more/has better career progression and upside? Is this even feasible?
Transitioning from being a quant at a hedge fund (HF) to a quant trader/researcher at a high-frequency trading (HFT) firm or market maker like Jane Street, Two Sigma, HRT, or Optiver is feasible but comes with challenges. Here's what you need to know:
Feasibility of Transition:
Skillset Alignment:
HFT firms and market makers often prioritize skills in low-latency systems, optimization, and real-time decision-making. If your HF experience involves similar technical expertise, the transition is more straightforward.
However, if your HF role is more research-focused or involves long-term strategies, you may need to upskill in areas like high-frequency data analysis or real-time trading systems.
Cultural Fit:
HFT firms tend to have a more tech-driven, collaborative culture compared to the often cutthroat environment of hedge funds. Demonstrating adaptability to this culture is crucial.
Networking and Reputation:
Some HFT firms may view quants from HFs as less specialized in their niche, so networking and showcasing relevant projects or achievements can help bridge this perception gap.
Pay Comparison:
HFT/Market Makers: Starting compensation for new grads at top firms like Jane Street or HRT is often in the range of $250k-$300k/year, with the potential to double within 5 years if performance is strong. Superstar teams at firms like Tower Research can earn significantly more due to their siloed payout structures.
Hedge Funds: Compensation varies widely based on fund performance and individual contributions. While starting pay can be competitive, the upside may be limited compared to HFT firms, especially for junior roles.
Career Progression and Upside:
HFT/Market Makers:
Career progression is often tied to team performance and individual contributions. The upside can be substantial for high-performing teams, especially in firms with transparent payout structures like HRT.
Opportunities to run your own book or take on leadership roles are more common in HFT firms with a vertical silo structure.
Hedge Funds:
Career progression can be slower, and the potential for upside is often tied to fund performance and management decisions. The industry is also becoming more mature, with fewer opportunities for rapid advancement compared to earlier decades.
Challenges:
Perception of Replaceability: Quants at HFs are increasingly viewed as commodities, which can limit their leverage in transitioning to HFT firms.
Industry Maturity: The quant space in HFs is more mature, and many of the lucrative opportunities have already been capitalized on by earlier entrants.
Conclusion:
Transitioning is feasible but requires aligning your skillset with the demands of HFT firms. HFT/market makers generally offer better pay and career upside, especially for those who excel in their roles. However, the competition is fierce, and success depends on your ability to demonstrate relevant expertise and adaptability.
Probably wouldn't be terribly hard, most firms just look for talent, but most people chose not to make the switch because the payouts in hedge funds tend to be higher for very talented people, and people who are at hedge funds tend to prefer the hedge fund culture/work over prop shops. It'd probably be more common to join another HF over a prop shop, or even just retire after a few good years. Also, 2Sig is a HF with a MM arm.
To any "normal person" who's never worked on Wall Street, a HF and a prop shop seem like the exact same thing, so that person would never ask this question. But anyone who *has* worked with quants on Wall Street will have already met coworkers who switched jobs between HF/prop and know it's not unusual for quants (and also there's so many different kinds of hedge funds focused on different time horizons that "HF vs prop" is not a meaningful distinction for quants anyway) so that person would never ask this question either.
A better thing to look at is asset class and medium/high frequency. I know only one person out of 20-30 who did that move. Most people get locked into whatever they started in as fresh grads, the work and skills are not very transferrable (or at least that is the perception of hiring teams).
Really? Assuming prop shop vs HF simply means whether or not you take external money, then I switched from a HF to a prop shop and then back to a HF again. I know lots of people who've done that.
Of if you define prop shop vs HFs as "HFT/market-making vs long term discretionary/fundamental" then sure, that's less common. But plenty of hedge funds do short term algorithm trading too, and any of those is a straightforward transition.
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Transitioning from being a quant at a hedge fund (HF) to a quant trader/researcher at a high-frequency trading (HFT) firm or market maker like Jane Street, Two Sigma, HRT, or Optiver is feasible but comes with challenges. Here's what you need to know:
Feasibility of Transition:
Skillset Alignment:
Cultural Fit:
Networking and Reputation:
Pay Comparison:
Career Progression and Upside:
HFT/Market Makers:
Hedge Funds:
Challenges:
Conclusion:
Transitioning is feasible but requires aligning your skillset with the demands of HFT firms. HFT/market makers generally offer better pay and career upside, especially for those who excel in their roles. However, the competition is fierce, and success depends on your ability to demonstrate relevant expertise and adaptability.
Sources: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/hedge-fund/quant-hedge-fund-career-progression?customgpt=1, So you want to be a Quant?, Quant Researcher in Quant Funds: Dead-End Career Path?, Q&A: Top Quant Firms First Year Comp 250k to 400k, So you want to be a Quant?
Probably wouldn't be terribly hard, most firms just look for talent, but most people chose not to make the switch because the payouts in hedge funds tend to be higher for very talented people, and people who are at hedge funds tend to prefer the hedge fund culture/work over prop shops. It'd probably be more common to join another HF over a prop shop, or even just retire after a few good years. Also, 2Sig is a HF with a MM arm.
To any "normal person" who's never worked on Wall Street, a HF and a prop shop seem like the exact same thing, so that person would never ask this question. But anyone who *has* worked with quants on Wall Street will have already met coworkers who switched jobs between HF/prop and know it's not unusual for quants (and also there's so many different kinds of hedge funds focused on different time horizons that "HF vs prop" is not a meaningful distinction for quants anyway) so that person would never ask this question either.
I don't understand who did ask it here.
A better thing to look at is asset class and medium/high frequency. I know only one person out of 20-30 who did that move. Most people get locked into whatever they started in as fresh grads, the work and skills are not very transferrable (or at least that is the perception of hiring teams).
Perhaps someone who isn’t in the industry yet but is looking at opportunities as a student?
super rare to switch between the two but it happens
Really? Assuming prop shop vs HF simply means whether or not you take external money, then I switched from a HF to a prop shop and then back to a HF again. I know lots of people who've done that.
Of if you define prop shop vs HFs as "HFT/market-making vs long term discretionary/fundamental" then sure, that's less common. But plenty of hedge funds do short term algorithm trading too, and any of those is a straightforward transition.
Laborum vitae inventore aut eaque iusto cupiditate pariatur. Et error amet nobis repudiandae magni. Ad quisquam dignissimos dicta vero et perferendis aut. Laudantium at doloribus quia ut quibusdam delectus. Cumque quisquam adipisci dolorem ipsam aut maiores.
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