Freestone Grove
Any intel on these guys. Read some articles about their fund structure, seem to focus on energy and financials and apply data science in finding drivers, but curious what returns are like and talent among PMs
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Very interested since they launched with a good amount of money and are "anti-pod"
What do you mean anti-pod?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-08/citadel-hedge-fund-a…
Generally bearish launches by business heads (e.g. Freestone Grove, Jain etc) and bullish launches by actually profitable PMs (e.g Woodline, Taula, etc.). Honestly there's nothing value add by the business heads of these places except for recruiting and some general organizational efficiencies. Recruiting is nearly impossible in the MM space with massive selection bias (profitable PMs never leave their seats so new launches are mostly just scrounging the shitty ones) and there's no secret sauce in building a platform - you really need some big swinging, profitable PMs. If you are already one of these big swinging, profitable PMs it makes it much easier to launch and put up numbers because that's what you've been doing already. Otherwise you will likely end up in the third ring of hell with Exoduspoint (another business head spinout)
Freestone grove founder (todd) was a top L/S PM at surveyor before he moved to division head. Compared to Jain where bobby jain was a BB Business head who moved to a co-CIO role.
Being a top PM 10 years ago means nothing compared to being a top PM today. It's a completely different ball game
Thought Brandon Haley was also a business head
Second this. Barker was a top notch consumer PM at surveyor, maybe second only to Woodruff. He was moved to head of surveyor to clean it up and get it on par with GE.
Absolutely the truth.
Any dipsht can pay for the Barra framework and raise from idiot pension funds based on their fancy title at C/M/P72, and throw guarantees at mediocre PMs. But you need the core rainmakers to actually have a business and there is ZERO reason for them to leave where they are for a fund that has (1) less money (2) no track record and (3) business risk.
When I was looking for PM seats recently I didn't even talk to Freestone/Jain. I focused on the big 3 and the midsize ones with good track records (a good group of PMs in other words). I'd Imagine anyone with a good track record would do the same, leaving the new startups with middling talent.
What are the midsize ones with the good group of PMs?
I am curious, apart from some infrastructure and maybe optimal capital allocation for you to run a book, what do you get from the top 3 that freestone or Jain can’t provide?
Curious about your situation. Are you looking for PM roles with 3+ years as an analyst?
Would love some advice (opened a thread yesterday). Happy to PM if you prefer.
Thanks
Don't care what anyone says, if HFs were stocks, I'd be max long Ilex. JD is the best investor/PM I've ever met, and FB understands the risk model better than anyone. Those who worked at Surveyor know what I'm talking about.
They're gonna build a monster fund
Anyone have a recent view on performance, culture, and trajectory? Also any views on reputation of founding team and sector heads?
The one guy I know of who works there is lights out. He was an analyst on one of the largest books at one of the MMs (p72, millennium, citadel) and he was a big driver of returns there — his PM’s words. The fact he left that gig to go to freestone says a lot.
i was a pm under TB...i've learned a ton about risk from him / how to be a pm / how to run billions of gross / how to build a team and retain people / how to last in this business...he's a brilliant guy and is responsible for much of what citadel is today (re: EQR / risk model + imposing process)...he is excellent...no doubt. i owe him a lot. ravi (his deputy) is awesome.
but...i will say...freestone isn't off to an...amazing start. and not sure the whole anti-pod thing makes much sense to me...it's a good seat for an analyst/pm - they'll scale up over the next few years.
You have too much aura to be on WSO sir.
i'm flattered...my daughters tell me i have "negative aura"...
Not suprised that they're not doing well.. I'm sure TB is a great mentor etc. but people don't realize that the only thing keeping certain pod businesses afloat are rockstar PMs. If you don't have those guys, no matter how good of a teacher/mentor/business builder you are, your firm will fail. This is why the only successful launches are coming from people who were exceptional risk takers.
Any more color on performance YTD?
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