Good seat but want more…
Mid career / early thirties. Did a fairly traditional IB > MF PE > MBA and then ended up in a good HF seat (think top SM type shop).
Make a good salary / bonus around $1m. I look out and see my comp relatively rangebound in the $600k > $1.5m for the next couple of years until they decide not to make me PM (appears nearly impossible due to number of analysts competing for same slots)
I envy friends that have pursued entrepreneurial paths and wish I had the balls to jump to do something in fields I am more interesting in (sports, fitness etc.)
Anyone struggling with the same / any advice?
This is like the modal outcome for people at SMs. 600k-1.5m in a regular range of outcomes with difficult / impossible path to PM. Solution is to fuck off to a pod at some point. It’s the only way to have the chance to make real money
I guess I’m just wondering whether a pod is the solution here or rolling the dice by starting a business/ doing something more entrepreneurial. Either feels like a gamble just different magnitudes / range of outcomes
How big is your itch to do something entrepreneurial? My 2cents would be to go to a pod and last as long as you can. It’ll be fun if you think your backup after that is something entrepreneurial. You can do pod -> run a biz but not the other way around. You probably have higher expected earnings at pod too
Just make sure you handicap well your chances of succeeding at a pod.. if you look around the landscape in the past 2 weeks, most people will tell you you'd be crazy to leave your current set-up for a pod.
What is the issue here? You're making a million a year. and presumably not working crazed IB hours. Like you don't need many years of that to just have enough to do anything you'd like. Really don't understand some of you guys, but hey that's probably why I work in a shitty corp fin job making 1/10th of your comp for the same hours because I got laid off in IB and now want to end myself.
I don't know what kind of circles you're running in where you're envying your friends over your own very good situation.
If it is Elliott (which is sounds like it is), the hours might be worse than IB
Hah - when you put it like that… definitely in a lucky position in some ways but you always want more I guess.
I work 80+ hour weeks although almost entirely on my own schedule. The calculus in my head is wheyher its worth it to gamble on a 1-5% chance to make it bigg in life vs the path I am on now (which by all means is great, just not a spectacular outcome imo)
As someone who has worked 80+ hour weeks with no end in sight with now nothing to show for it, I'd do 100+ hours to be in your seat.
Again, I don't understand. Your current path is already making it "big in life". Are you just blowing all your money or something? I make shitty ass comp in corp fin and can barely make ends meet in my HCOL. You envy your friends? Ok, I envy you.
I think you already know if you’re good enough to have more EV at a pod with all the given risks. If you really are that guy you’ll make that leap sooner or later. But it sounds like you have it made in your current seat pulling solid numbers without too much performance to worry about. Hard choice for sure. But if you’re already comfortable monetarily why not go for the pod or start that startup in your free time while you clip your last check this year.
You’re perfectly in your rights to want more and want to push the bill. Clearly, you’re in a different position than an associate 1 trying to money shame you.
Congrats on your success. To give you some feedback, my close friend was doing $1.5mm at a fund and was completely depressed. He was an HSW type and tapped his network to found a consumer product start up.
4 years later, he’s doing fine. Opportunity cost puts him behind for now, but his business is growing, just made his first acquisition, he’s excited about it and, while he works about the same if not more, he really loves the work. He had moved into a shitty 2k/mo apt in a t1 and recently moved into an 800kish house so the risk isn’t limiting his life progression really.
I don’t think there’s a wrong answer - depends if you actually want to ride the risk dragon or not.
Find yourself a corp dev seat, my friend. Reach out to HHs - they’d love your prior IB experience.
I did corp dev straight out of college (no IB), and my base salary progression (hopped jobs every year) has gone:
Year 1: $60k
Year 2: $75k
Year 3: $130k
You can easily command ~$120-150k with your prior experience if you were an analyst - likely a bit more if you were an associate.
I am in a Corp dev seat and the comp range you cited is what I’m currently making all in with 4 years of IB experience. My all in during was about $300K so yeah this is a huge step down..not worth it especially with lack of visibility for promotions. At least in IB if you survive you move up and make shit ton frankly. Trying to get back to IB now. How can you compete with guys like OP making a cool million a year like it’s nothing while you slave away on Corp fin. The reduced hours don’t make up for the loss of comp.
Woof, didn't land on feet... but even to have corp fin job right now is a huge win IMO
Only makes sense from that comp to move for a PM seat at a pod shop with a good guarantee
Analyst comp is not going to be much better on average than what you make now, but will be MUCH more volatile
Without a contractual pnl tie, I've heard of analysts making maybe 4M but mostly you hear 1-2M stories as well as the 0 year stories. I've heard far more 0 stories than $2M+ stories.
The MM bonus brag numbers in the 2024 HF bonus thread are not that impressive given 2024 was a killer year across the pod shops. Most posting more than $2M, or really even more than $1M note they are PMs or "senior analysts" with contractual pnl payout.
I would step out to do something entrepreneurial if that’s what you want. Assuming your spending isn’t out of control you have the luxury of being able to hive off a decent nest egg which should alleviate some of the pressure.
Or don’t, your seat also seems very good all things considered. Hours seem shitty though and I personally couldn’t see myself doing that for a prolonged period if I had a family and other potential career aspirations. Fortunately the longer you wait to make the move the easier it will be.
I have grappled with something similar, albeit I am in a cushier seat from an hours standpoint but lower comp. I think I will eventually make the leap to buying a small business or starting my own thing.
Family? That's all that matters
Family is everything.
OP has Anakin Skywalker problems
Dude? Think of all the sad sap MF PE peers who are making significantly less cash comp than you only to wash out at Sr Aso / VP / Principal level… perspective!
Sure but by early 30s in PE you’d be Principal + so making close to $1 mm.
I’m on this path at a similar age, but probably work a little less and think this is the most ideal path that prioritizes comp+lifestyle+work environment. I can’t imagine going to a pod at this age with a family just for that incremental payout that may end getting blown out in the first couple of years. If you’re single and the goal is MSD payouts, be my guest, but this is the most risk adjusted path to a good life…
It’s interesting, I’ve hopped from finance to startup to finance again (broadly speaking).
I think you need to understand the implicit bias with these sorts of cross over moves; an entrepreneur needs a different mindset, and frankly you’re less likely to have the same success (depending what you go on to do).
What I had and what I think a lot of people in finance have is an assumption because we were successful in domain 1, that domain 2 must be as easy but better upside. It doesn’t work like that unfortunately. You have less informational edge on a problem, lack of a network for capital / sales / recruiting, and a lack of brand (an anti brand basically).
I’d recommend trying to dip your toe into angel investing at like pre-seed to seed, to see what startup life and founders look like, then if still keen start a pre-seed idea of your own on the side.
If you want more traditional business, again provide capital to the area you like privately, learn about it and then look to innovate. Can do this with search funds.
I honestly think this is really the only model where you can exert some sort of edge being in finance (capital), in order to get insight into the specifics. You can tie operational insight to said capital too (be on the board, check out operations time to time, be an advisor to the CEO).
Else have a hobby using Agentic AI + hiring cheap labor overseas to start something on the side that’s small but allows you to test the waters.
Bottom line de-risk your understanding of what entrepreneurship entails, then see if your assumptions still hold. (This is frankly the entrepreneurial mindset you’d need to adopt anyway, so it’s sort of a prototype experience of “having an entrepreneurial mindset” while exploring the actual activities of an entrepreneur in a way where you have skin in the game).
Love this answer! My main issue is that I work so much so feel like I barely have time over for activities outside of work
But what else would you do? Most people I know who brag about 80+ hour weeks are also drawn to the jobs that require it, or will manage to work those kind of hours in jobs that don't actually require it.
Do you want a harder job or more free time?
so basically OP's only edge is if he were start the next Blackstone
I'm sure a blue collar entrepreneur couldn't do that, but OP has the skillset and the needed investor mindset
GOOD LUCK OP!! im with you!!
Great comment
You're living the dream brotha
Spend more time with friends from home / people you meet on vacation - it will contextualize how good you have it. Tough to appreciate what you have when you're sorrounded by the monkey shit
How difficult would it be to go down the entrepreneurship path and decide to come back later if that doesn't work out/isn't what you had in mind? Obviously you might have to take a slight "downgrade" to the investing seat when you return, but is that even doable (have you seen a lot of those cases)?
If making it big in life, means making it big financially, I would say your best route is to keep at your current job and invest; Taking heavy bets in several startups is a better strategy than grinding it out yourself unless you have an idea you believe in so strongly that walking away isn’t an option. Even then, I’d seriously reconsider. Let someone else do the heavy lifting while you focus on building capital.
The risk-reward equation skews heavily against you. Starting something from scratch demands a completely different skill set, and testing whether you have it is a gamble. If you don’t, the road back is brutal.
You envy the friends of yours who achieved success via entrepreneurship, which is an extremely small % of those who actually pursued it.
You have a 0.5% outcome and are looking at the 0.1%. I agree with others, go for a pod and work until you blow up. You’ll make even more money then you’ve tried it and reached the top.
Then you can pursue entrepreneurship guilt free (and with a bigger nest egg). Just understand there are problems you aren’t considering that come with entrepreneurship and you are going to be starting at the bottom.
Are you okay with fighting to raise $1 mm in funding to establish a valuation when you made $1.5 yourself the year prior? Not having access to the tools you had while working in a professional setting, presumably with everything you need at your disposal? Are you really willing to forgo millions of dollars to take this leap? What if you fail - at 40 will you look at your friends who stuck it out and made PM and think what have I done?
Just consider the other side. You seem burnt out and bored, so a small sabbatical or hiatus may be more beneficial than leaving the industry entirely.
In my opinion it’s just OPs ego speaking. He realized he’s the above avg guy in NYC doing ok for himself and he can’t cope with the fact that his life will never amount to much more unless he takes action now. Probably came from a decent background so the money isn’t rly a big factor but just wants to differentiate himself from every other person in his network.
OP, I don’t think a pod will do this for you. A couple more Ms won’t change anything. I think it’s the eminence you’re lacking in life. I honestly thought that was more of a younger man’s game and it would die down when I’m older but I guess not. Maybe if you became a billionaire that would abate your ego but I think it’s more so what you spend your time doing. You probably grinded hard following the traditional path and just realized you’re not all that different from a dude delivering mail. Still have to work a job you don’t truly love, have to cope with the fact that you are more or less an avg guy (who makes a little more $), and you don’t have the time to pursue whatever is truly calling you.
In my opinion the only thing that will get your life back on the trajectory you want is by pursuing the passion(s) you’ve left behind and achieving eminence in said niche(s).
This is impressively spot-on. Were you in a similar situation? How did you resolve it?
woah getting a bit too real ...
What's up with WSO man?!?! If you look at tech founders gunning for unicorn status, then yea it's an extremely small chance. But less than 1% of entrepreneurs raise VC money and put in that type of growth risk. Most LMM founders of retardedly boring businesses are absolutely raking in cash all while barely having an understanding of digital marketing. The bar is so much lower than you could possibly imagine.
What have your friends accomplished that makes you so envious?
Just make sure you handicap well your chances of succeeding at a pod.. if you look around the landscape in the past 2 weeks, most people will tell you you'd be crazy to leave your current set-up for a pod.
how does a man in a pool feel thirsty
Because he isn’t drinking the chlorinated water
Grass is always greener buddy. I'm in an entrepreneurial seat and sometimes wish I had your career. If you really wanna do it, go ahead. You've got the capital and backing I'm sure. But wait until you're done with the HF world. You can always leave and start a company. But you're probably not going back into HF after a hiatus.
How much do you have saved vs. what you need to start coasting?
ie working some chill job where you're fine spending 90% to 110% of your take-home pay because the savings part is done.
this is where my head is at... There are F500 companies that pay competent people with great resumes like $350k per year to work not that hard, Zooming in 3 days a week. That's like $250k after tax which in combination with the $150k after tax passive income I already make would be $400k i.e. what a mid career lawyer / banker / doctor makes after tax. If I managed to not dip into the passive income through my 30's (i.e. before kids start getting expensive) then by 40 that $150k of passive income would at minimum double if not 3-4x then we're talking $550k after tax. Then it's just about surviving in corporate land (looks really easy from the outside) for 10-15 more years until retirement.
Yeah that's basically the whole question for OP i think.
If I didnt have much saved, I would work the 80 hrs for 7 figures in a heartbeat.
Right now? 80 hours and limited upside capture? Not happening.
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