How to explain no return offer?
Did a summer internship at one of the large MMs (Citadel/Baly etc) for L/S but didn't get a return offer and wondering how to explain it/spin as a learning opportunity. A lot of the no-return advice I've seen has been centered around IB and relating to blaming "fit" or the low offer rates. Will be interviewing across the sellside and buyside for a range of roles and wondering how to explain. Didn't get any specific feedback from the shop i interned in at either so unsure what to draw from.
Explaining a no return offer can be a bit tricky, but it's all about framing it in a positive light. Here are a few tips:
Be Honest but Positive: You can say that the firm had a limited number of return offers to give out and unfortunately, you were not selected. This doesn't necessarily reflect on your abilities or performance.
Highlight Your Learning Experience: Talk about what you learned during your internship and how it has prepared you for future roles. This could include technical skills, understanding of the industry, or soft skills like teamwork and communication.
Discuss Cultural Fit: If you feel it's appropriate, you can mention that while you valued the experience, you realized that the company culture wasn't the best fit for you. This can show self-awareness and honesty.
Don't Speak Negatively: Even if your experience wasn't positive, avoid speaking negatively about the company or your colleagues. This can come off as unprofessional.
Show Your Resilience: Talk about how not receiving a return offer has motivated you to seek out new opportunities and improve your skills. This can show resilience and a positive attitude.
Remember, not getting a return offer is not the end of the world. Many successful people in the industry have faced similar situations. It's all about how you handle it and what you learn from it. Good luck!
bump
Pretty sure we know each other...but we're in the same boat here. Interned at a pod shop this summer, did not get return offer too.
I had a similar situation back when I was in college for a summer internship. I was on a prop desk at a large BB. I thought the entire summer went fine. Nobody said anything to me even remotely bad. But then, at the end of summer, I didn't get an offer. I did get feedback though, which was that I wasn't proactive enough. I was very confused because they could have mentioned it to me during the summer. Fast forward, I've learned that oftentimes it's not what you do but, rather, what you don't do that makes people unhappy (personally, I think it's unfair but it is what it is).
To me, it sounds like you are in a similar situation since you are sitting here in the dark about what went wrong. If I were you, I'd reflect on what you didn't do over the summer that perhaps you could have done more of. For purposes of the interviews, I would just be honest. From my seat, I can tell when a potential candidate is trying to spin something or, worse, lying to me. For me, that's a red flag -- if something goes wrong on a name in the future, is this guy going to try to weasel his way out of it? I'd rather have someone who is honest, takes responsibility for a mistake, and thinks about the lessons that was learned and move forward.
So, if I were you, I would go the route of being honest. You can say: "I'm not quire sure because I wasn't given any feedback, and frankly it was a surprise to me since nobody said anything or gave me any inkling that I was doing something wrong. However, I've had some time to reflect on what I could have done better. I think that I didn't do X and could have done X, Y, and Z". I think that type of response shows maturity, the ability to be self-reflective, and the ability to improve -- all traits that every manager likes to see in the people that work for them, especially in this industry.
This advice nails it, if you are interviewing for SS sure spin it, prefer sellside skillset, exit options blah blah. If its buyside getting a return is very hard be honest and they will just move on to rest of your candidacy. I would rather hear what skills you gained on someone else’s dime than a spin.
Thanks for the response. By spin I meant how to explain what I learnt from and how I improved etc as even the sellside will expect a very strong answer as to why I didn’t get a return offer.
was curious what types of answers I should avoid, the IB threads seem to encourage blaming fit/the economy but obviously this won’t apply to L/S HF recruiting
Fantastic advice and approach on how to handle going-forward.
I worked for a group many moons ago and we had an intern - who we had a v low probability of hiring full-time anyways and was somewhat communicated - and at the end I provided similar feedback that in the future he ought to be more proactive. The way I phrased it was people are always busy and are going to leave you on your own so it is your responsbility to insert yourself and ask questions. No one will ever be upset that you asked questions aside from obviously turbulent market situations. And if someone is so busy that they cannot interact with you, they will say it, but there will be no hard feelings.
Thank you for your response, I’ve spent time thinking about how I could’ve done better and a have a few talking points to avoid generalising.
I didn’t have much face time with my team so would ask questions on BBG when I had them; I got brief feedback on my interactions just before the end of the internship and was told I didn’t ask enough questions so end up going into dead ends & ask questions too early when I could have done more digging.
Initially I didn’t know how both can be true but I think I could have struck a better balance between the two. I’ll carry it forward for my next internship
hi you wanna DM, I think we intern on the same team
Just one more piece of advice. I also interned BS and didn't get return offer, so had to interview for SS. In those interviews I received a fair amount of skepticism as to whether I would stick around for 2.5+ years at minimum or just jump ship back to BS as soon as something else became an option. Just a warning to be ready for that and have a good answer as to why you actually want to be on the SS for a few years. For me it was hard to fake because my heart wasn't in it (I really wanted to be BS).
This is a great comment
i think op should cite the structured training and feedback that the sell side is known for. Eg I want to develop quickly and not be left in the dark like I was on the buy side
In the same boat. Buyside return offers are much rarer... at my firm the return rate was below 10% lol
Yeah weird boat to be stuck in…how have you found re-recruiting? I’m doing SA apps again but struggling to get through resume screens despite target + brand name HF SA.
having to seriously consider careers outside of finance
Got a verbal offer with another HF this Friday. Went through interviews with HR and all team members, and no one even asked why I didn't get a return offer.
I feel that most people wouldn't even bring that up during an interview since it is quite a norm at buyside firms and delivering a solid stock pitch is much more important.
Keep recruiting and applying to any position you can; some regional small funds are also very nice. Just keep on networking and practicing interviews my friend. I only got my first interview in mid September, and I took every effort for this one and it has all worked out finally. Wish you the very best luck!
"I banged other interns and they found out" *shrug*
👀
Ay joining my fellow interns in a similar position today. No return offer, and recruiting is an absolute pain. Landed some banking ones, but still want to try for HF (even with their low offer rates).
Just wanted to check in how have yall been?
Update in case anyone finds this useful: ended up getting full time program at another one of M/C/P for L/S
Worked out in the end
Hey man
In the same boat rn, could really use help, could we please DM?
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