Was speaking to some friends in the industry and they were surprised when I said that if I see a clear nepotism internship on the CV of graduates unless they are incredible I will be rejecting them, I can't be the only one that thinks like this.
Im more impressed by someone getting a S&T internship at a bank then someone who interned at millennium because there dad knows someone...
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So how can you tell if an internship is nepo or not?
Some are easy to tell - what I see is usually someone with an internship "in private equity" during the summer before college (realistically wtf are you even contributing as a senior in high school)
a one man in army if I may say:
- present by itself exit options for the PortCos and potential IPO valuations to the IC
- discuss 1:1 with the law firm explaining the deal structure for the SPA draft
- due diligence on QoE to spot red flags missed by the Big 4 Auditors
- negotiate 1:1 with the management team the rollover conditions
- act as deputy MD when the MD (his dad) is flying
My uni roommate's dad was an MD at HSBC. He went around advising people to network - 'I didn't get my SA (HSBC) by being the best, I got it by networking harder.' He told people he spent a lot of time networking with an MD at HSBC.
Not an exact science because some people will be at a target, studying a good subject but still used nepotism to get into a top buyside programme. However, the two main classes of culprits are 1. No name school, average degree choice etc no real reason for them to have got an offer for a top internship and then didn't really do anything on the internship 2. Going to a place I know doesn't offer internships.... Also everyone knows everyone and its not hard to shoot a friend a message that works there about it.
Well for 1), I'd be curious as to why a kid with such well-connected parents would even be in a no-name school
I wouldn’t move it any specific way. I care less about “how” they got an internship and more what they learnt from it. If someone interned at MLP, I’d want to interview them to see how smart they are/what they learnt. If they were doing random BS there then I’d view it less favourably than an S&T candidate who’s internship is more general
This is what my friends said but I would argue that anyone with half a brain would pick up on stuff if they were there and probably be more clued up on how the trading/investment process works at funds compared to the person that went to a bank. So they might perform better in interview because they have a 10 week head start but after 6 months that will vanish.
I don’t really know what else you could do. If your interview/application process isn’t good enough that you can actually tell if this person is likely to be good at the job, then you’ve got bigger problems right?
You’re not testing for buzzwords in a grad scheme interview, ask them challenging scenarios, pick a part their thought process. I’m in L/S so it’s pretty easy to do, pitch me a stock and talk to me about businesses, if you’re focusing on stuff that’s concrete and matters to the name vs some kid arguing “company is big and is doing AI stuffs” then I have a winner.
Are you screening candidates for their experience or how they got their experience? I wouldn’t argue that a kid knowing how to answer “why banking” or “how do you value a coffee stand” is something that should matter.
Unless you can’t interview both candidates, I don’t see “how” someone got an experience would matter. And I’d argue that the rest of the CV/points they raised on the SA experience would matter more
I don’t really care, personally. If you seem to have a high EQ/have strong soft skills and pass the technicals with all the other stuff checking out then I’m absolutely interested in seeing how you fit.
Finding qualified people is easy, but finding long term good people is tough.
trying to make money, not balance scales
I support nepotism hires. Always good to have a favour banked
Sounds like a skill issue to me... real nepo babies use their nepotism for the FT offer
Here's my take. While working at an investment bank as an intern I overheard two associates shitting on a kid who interviewed for SA claiming that "PE sophomore summer internship on his resume was straight from connections". This kid did not advance to the second round, but I doubt it was totally for nepotism as my bank does have a hard interview process and I'm pretty sure he couldn't sell them on why he wanted to move across the country from CA.
I don't think nepotism should be taken into account during the interview process. I had two internships before SA recruiting, one was from a family friend (which had a very easy interview process to be fair) and the other was a result of cold emailing 100+ small firms in my area. A large part of every interview process is talking through your resume and what you did at these internships. A smart kid who added value to a nepotism internship is better than a kid who did what was asked of him but had no idea what was going on. We're not all perfect at the start but genuine interest in the industry will show.
And if you do see a kid who worked interned in PE in high school, ask how they got that internship / what led them to like PE at such a young age, that will definitely get them. I once asked a kid "so why investment banking" and he said he literally liked investing in banks lmao
Of course you don't want nepo internships to be accounted for during the interview process, you had one yourself.
True I did have one myself. However, both internships were at small local banks, and both didn't have official posted internship applications and <5 interns. While one was the result of nepotism, the other was the result of hard work and emailing every firm in my area. If you saw both places on my resume, it would be super tough to distinguish which one is which and I would hate for someone to assume both are nepo and have it discredit the work I did at both.
Pretty clear OP has a chip on shoulder from having grown up without privilege and is pursuing retribution now that he sees himself in a position of power.
Sorry to break it to you, but your efforts at "social justice" won't matter one bit as nepotism will always be there. What's worse, you run the risk of some colleague noticing your inferiority complex and going after you for involving your firm in your petty battles.
I mean if you have actually read this thread and come to that conclusion I really worry for the fund you work for because ur ability to understand information is atrocious. Nothing about privilege of it all.... Represents the mindset of the person. I'm an upper middle class white bloke that went to harrow and then Cambridge I am the archetype of privilege and had the opportunity to go do nepo work experience at uni but never would because if you can't do it by urself u shouldn't be doing it. The entire post was about how do u look at it from an interviewer perspective. I view the lack of self sufficiency as a negative but friends didn't have an issue with it. Getting others opinions
Did you also get into Harrow "self-sufficiently"?
As an interviewer at a massive distressed HF, I view an unambiguous nepotism internship (e.g. at a place that doesn't take interns like Elliott/Pershing) as an positive for two reasons. First, it demonstrates some level of network which can add value in ways that are hard for other candidates to replicate. Second, it demonstrates second-level thinking (i.e. knowing that the vast majority of future interviewers will just see the brand, and not realize it's a nepotism position) which is rarer than it should be. Obviously competence comes first, but you cannot discern competence from a resume (plenty of highly pedigreed people on paper disappoint when put to the test).
You a rich kid who, without daddy’s money, would be living in a cardboard box under a bridge?
You sure sound like one.
I’ve seen two nepotism hires who had fully-developed professional and political networks that added real value (created idea flow, generated transactions)
From an IBD perspective 100% understand it
I've never worked in IBD? I mean the son of a prominent US treasury individual is on our team and he knows everyone... probably the best hire we've ever made. Brought in LP capital from a large international investor, a highly unique private transaction, but just generally very additive to the process.
Standalone, having a nepo internship would call into question the competence of the candidate, but if other aspects of the resume demonstrate work ethic and intellect (high GPA, extracurricular accomplishments) and they comport themselves well in the interview process, I wouldn't hold it against them.
Some of the best people I know personally and professionally grew up privileged. Conversely, some of the worst people I know grew up struggling.
This. It’s all about the values you are taught. There are people I know whose parents bought them used BMW’s in high school/college who are ten times better people than those who grew up with a lot less. The same is true vice versa. Entitlement is a state of mind - do you expect things to fall into place for you because of others, or are you a resourceful, independent, ambitious, motivated person, who knows how to grab life by the neck and fight for the future you want. I don’t care whether your parents make $1 Mil or $10k per year. These lessons can be taught irrespective of how much your family starts you off with.
Imagine if Bobby Axelrod was a nepo baby. I doubt Billions would be 8.3 IMDB
Straight up rejecting them seems like you have some personal issues there. I'm getting Nepoed a Freshman summer internship in LMM PE and I fully intend to be humble and say it was an opportunity through a family friend to anyone who asks about it.
I'm not really doing it for the resume boost, I honestly just want to learn as much as I can and provide even a miniscule amount of value if possible. Hopefully this kind of mindset expressed in your post is not common.
I mean that's why I made the poll and it seems like it is. I also wouldn't care about some person getting a freshman summer internship LMM PE getting an and being honest about it that it was family because you have an interest in the industry..... The point of the post was people who should be getting offers from very average banks that are now going to millennium and then try and play it off as if they got there all on there own and now they are hot shit because they have a great name on the CV.
Jealous much? How are you so short sighted and vindictive?
Ur inability to grasp the basic concept of what is trying to be discussed here is baffling.....
I dislike nepotism as much as the next person. But, unfortunately, this is how the world works and, by rejecting all nepo candidates universally, you will miss out on a lot of really great candidates / people.
Nepotism is a double-edged sword.
Arguably the best people in finance are nepo babies. They have the network, but more importantly, a constant and lifelong interest in finance nurtured by their parents. This is indispensable because they are intellectually engaged with finance not just as a career but as the family business. They don't stress as much about comp, and they're less likely to constantly jump between shops. Finally, the understand the culture of the business and the do's and donts without needing to have their hand held by an associate. Generally, wealthy and intelligent people make wealthy and intelligent children.
However, this does not apply to all nepo babies, and some are so profoundly entitled to jobs they would never earn in a million years that they sour perception of all nepotism hires. These are the kids that study at private universities where their parents had involvement in getting them in, and then proceeded to study business/finance or some degree with subjectively little rigor.
This isn't really an issue because anybody who has been around the industry knows how to differentiate the former from the latter. You can literally tell in the first conversation you have with them.
I understand the envy that arises from entering finance without any familial connections or advantages, but one must ultimately accept that there are nepo hires who are profoundly gifted and there are nepo hires that are a thorn in your side. Finance is a job ultimately measured by returns and so continuous underperformance won't usually be tolerated from nepo hires unless their immediate family controls the firm. In that case they're effectively your boss.
Full disclosure, I am a nepo baby. One of my parents is a GP at a large firm. Because of this, I was taught about markets and economics as soon as I entered grade school. I started reading WSJ/FT/etc. and had access to a Bloomberg. My internships were at tier 1 hedge fund firms that do not really have internship programs and while some people held this against me, others realized that there was a reason these firms would even take me on at all. I double majored at a T5 university in two very technical majors.
Some notes for this conversation.
(1) Full time jobs via nepotism are generally frowned upon and are exceptionally rare as compared to nepo internships.
(2) Nepo internships serve a practical purpose in this industry by cultivating relationships between GP's and LP's. You may be a GP in your fund and a LP in your friends fund. You send your son there for the summer to intern under one of the analysts. Everybody appreciates that analyst for taking on the intern (that analyst is seen as able to lead and take on additional work, helpful especially for analysts at SM funds), and you leave with an understanding of the firm.
(3) If you're upset about nepotism in your peers, just imagine if you had children that were interested in finance. Would you not do everything within your power to help them succeed in this industry? Would you hold back help from them? Probably not. Nepotism is natural and based on the belief that we help those in our immediate families.
(4) If you're an analyst and you have to take on a nepo intern, understand that they're going to fall into one of the two aforementioned categories. If they fall in the first category, they're probably going to be a useful asset to your career, as they have personal relationships with GP's that you idolize. If they fall into the second, they still have those relationships, but they're going to be a three month course in bad employee management. Take it in stride.
Lmao hit me up w some sm hfs that take interns bruh I been tryna email so many, seems like only kids w connections cop. I don’t have any connections to offer you but I do cook a mean lasagna
“Because there dad knows someone”
Dude doesn’t know basic English. Mad because someone is ahead in life. Loser post. 👎
Back when I was looking for summer internship, I was talking to a HR at a fairly popular MM firm. They told me that for the time being they are only reviewing applications of people who have some kind of connection with their team, quite outright.
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