Working as a quant and programming mindlessly for a signal has made me realize I want to be a subject/market expert because I miss having context to my work.
However, given that discretionary guys have more stress and having a programming background is a safe career in an AI-driven world. I'm not sure if I'm having a "grass is greener moment"
Has anyone moved from quant to discretionary? Any regrets, etc?
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Have you looked at places that are closer to a hybrid (“quantamental”)? Seems like you can continue using some of your strengths in programming, etc and start learning about the more fundamental aspects of investing. Now, this isn’t discretionary, but may be a good way to test the waters and start making a move in that direction.
can you DM me re: quantamental? I cannot speak about it here
Can I pls be looped in too? ;)
what funds/groups are quantamental? how do you find them?
Hard to find a lot of the smaller groups that do this. And also (as I mentioned in another comment on this thread) some quantamental places split the job, and so the “quant” becomes basically an assistant to the investor. You want a place that’ll invest in you and teach you both sides (you bring the quant expertise they teach you how to think about the markets).
As for what shops do quantamental, basically all the big ones do (or claim they do), so citadel, DE Shaw, etc. But you really need to talk to the people at these funds to figure out how some of those groups actually work to make sure you’ll get what you are looking for.
all i have to say is that it's good that you are considering making this move relatively early on in your career. As making the jump in your early 40's while still maintaining seniority would be impossible (for 99% of people).
Try to break into a quantamental team as a data scientist. The technical skillset is too valuable to throw away, and hedge fund analysts are viewed as a commodity resource. I've seen plenty of talented fundamental analysts flame out for reasons beyond their control. I don't think the risk/reward tradeoff is favorable there.
The key question for you to answer for yourself is whether or not you have a business-oriented mindset already. The PMs I know (at both single-manager and multi-manager shops) don't want to hire people for data science roles that can't communicate results clearly or reason about what drives business value. If you are a strong programmer but still need to develop your soft skills and finance knowledge, I would recommend joining a single manager's data science group as a data engineer, picking up the business side via osmosis, and transitioning down the road to a data science role (where you are actually building models, running analyses, and delivering results). I have seen multiple people successfully make this transition.
I have worked in discretionary, quantamental, and pure quant roles throughout my career, and I've enjoyed the quantamental role the most. It's fast-paced, you get to work on interesting problems, and you generate immediate business value.
can you DM me? Cannot speak publicly
What is the pay like for a quantamental analyst/data scientist in a fundamental/discretionary hedge fund when compared to the pay of the actual investment team? How are these teams valued relative to the investment team?
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Can you hint at the place you are leaving so I can get in? lol
The points that @powerforward1 made on the difference between a QR foot soldier taking orders vs a fundamental analyst giving orders - I cannot stress further how true this is.
Having worked in the quantamental world for the last 5 years, I've come to realise that funds which truly understand how to merge the 2 (quants and analysts) are the rare exceptions. Even fundamental analysts at places such as Citadel and P72 which have top notch quant teams (you would imagine the ppl here would understand how to best use quants) would always see quants as 2nd tier, not to mention BB AMs or AM firms.
And once you get stuck in this world, it's difficult to move out to HFT/MM, because as a quantamental person, most of your market experience would be embedded in low frequency strategies, which is typical of fundamental analysts. The only way is to "restart" your career. Of course, there are always exceptions to everything, but statistically speaking, unless you always had Lady Luck smiling on you, what are the chances?
My situation is similar to OP's. I am 31, have a vhrm math phd and have worked as a quant in a (top) hedge fund for two years now. However, my salary is capped and the possibilities of making it to PM at my fund are slim. Like OP, I would like to move to the discretionary side, ideally a Tiger Cub. What are my chances? Would clearing the CFA help me doing so? Or do I need a top MBA (I am afraid I might be too old for HBS/GSB/Wharton...). Please any advice is appreciated.
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