Questions from a top NYU undergrad.
Hi, I am a senior undergraduate student at NYU, and I am graduating in a semester. I am a math major and computer science minor. I have 3.8+ GPA and plenty extracurricular activities, and I am confident enough to say that I am the top 5% in math and computer algorithm in entire NYU(Undergrads in NYU are actually not that bright in math/CS, I am guessing NYU top5% can translate into average math major in a top ivy school? ). I am not an IMO or Putnam genius, but I rank myself in the second tier after that group of people. As for programming skills, I know python, C++, VBA, MySql etc, but programming isn’t my strongest suite. I am much better at algorithm than actual programming.
As I am graduating in half a year, I have been navigating different job opportunities. So far, I have considered 3 choices.
Actuarial Consulting (I know I can get into the best actuarial consulting firm because I did an internship with a top firm.) I know this is a great job with very decent paycheck and reasonable hours, but I have a feeling that I am a little bit smarter than being an actuary (It maybe takes an average NYU math major to be an actuary.)
Banks (Since I don’t have any finance, econ background, and I am not from ivy. I can only get into back offices such as operation. I know this because I had some interviews with banks. )
Trading/Quant (I don’t have any experience with trading or investing and I have zero knowledge about marketing/trading strategy etc. I just started to look into this field because I heard it’s very mathematical and a lot of money). I am guessing that I would like trading/quant better than the first two choices because it’s more intellectually challenging.
So my questions for you:
1. How do you compare my three choices (top actuarial consulting, Wall Street back office, potential quant)?
2. Say if I want to go for trading/quant, how should I get there?
(I am thinking that I’ll apply for all the undergrad trading/quant jobs, and if I don’t get anything, I can get into a quantitative PhD program. I prefer PhD rather than MFE because I don’t want to pay that much tuition).
3. Say I want to get into a PhD program, what major should I do in order to land a quant job?
4. Apart from these 3 choices, did I miss anything else? Or what general suggestions/comments do you have for me?
Thank you in advance for you carefully written answers!
Do an MFE. Quants usually have Masters, not PhDs.
Only would've answered if you were a 'bottom' NYU undergrad
Well, NYU is a huge school with a great diversity. People are talented in different things. I think math/CS happens to be my thing.
My recommendation: don't go for the back office. Go either for quant position or stay with actuarial consulting.
What do you think of Goldman Sacks Operation vs. Deloitte Actuarial consulting? Why?
why dont u just be a software engineer
Dude you're probably trolling but in the off chance you're not I would strongly recommend proving Zorn's Lemma from the axiom of choice on your own. After that I heard finance interviews become a lot easier.
if u are good at math like u say u are u can get a job at a top prop trading firm. it's just math and brainteasers, would require little preparation on ur part.
Just be sure to mention in your finance interviews that you're too smart to work at actuarial firms; in the top ~5% of math undergrads, but they're all garbage at NYU anyway; bordering on being fluent in English, writing is still a bit rough though; and wholly oblivious to social norms. The offers will roll in.
+2
Do something where you stick with crunching numbers. You don't come across as being personable enough for banking. Focus on tuning out the cockiness.
Sincere Questions from a top NYU undergrad. (Originally Posted: 07/23/2014)
Hi, I am a senior undergraduate student at NYU, and I am graduating in a semester. I am a math major and computer science minor. I have 3.8+ GPA and plenty extracurricular activities, and I am confident enough to say that I am the top 5% in math and computer algorithm in entire NYU(Undergrads in NYU are actually not that bright in math/CS, I am guessing NYU top5% can translate into average math major in a top ivy school? ). I am not an IMO or Putnam genius, but I rank myself in the second tier after that group of people. As for programming skills, I know python, C++, VBA, MySql etc, but programming isn’t my strongest suite. I am much better at algorithm than actual programming.
As I am graduating in half a year, I have been navigating different job opportunities. So far, I have considered 3 choices.
Actuarial Consulting (I know I can get into the best actuarial consulting firm because I did an internship with a top firm.) I know this is a great job with very decent paycheck and reasonable hours, but I have a feeling that I am a little bit smarter than being an actuary (It maybe takes an average NYU math major to be an actuary.)
Banks (Since I don’t have any finance, econ background, and I am not from ivy. I can only get into back offices such as operation. I know this because I had some interviews with banks. )
Trading/Quant (I don’t have any experience with trading or investing and I have zero knowledge about marketing/trading strategy etc. I just started to look into this field because I heard it’s very mathematical and a lot of money). I am guessing that I would like trading/quant better than the first two choices because it’s more intellectually challenging.
So my questions for you:
How do you compare my three choices (top actuarial consulting, Wall Street back office, potential quant)?
Say if I want to go for trading/quant, how should I get there? (I am thinking that I’ll apply for all the undergrad trading/quant jobs, and if I don’t get anything, I can get into a quantitative PhD program. I prefer PhD rather than MFE because I don’t want to pay that much tuition).
Say I want to get into a PhD program, what major should I do in order to land a quant job?
Apart from these 3 choices, did I miss anything else? Or what general suggestions/comments do you have for me?
Thank you in advance for you carefully written answers!
You would do a PhD just to get a quant job? You're better off w/ the MFE from a decent program. What you pay in tuition you'll save in time. Look at it this way: what if you spend all that time getting a PhD and find out that you HATE being a quant?
Personally I'd take the Actuary job. Great work life balance, sets you up for top MBA in case you can't transition into management (or would rather change careers entirely without missing a beat), and gets you a great salary in the meantime. Whether you're too smart for it or not remains to be seen. Nothing you learn in textbooks really translates to real world functions, and your job description is really only 50% of what you'll actually end up doing. Companies have a way of bombarding eager high performers with "ad-hoc" projects.
But the important question is: what do YOU want to do? Where do your interests lie? You have no finance or economics background but you're intent on a Wall St. front office or Quant job. Huh? Is that something for which you actually have a passion? Or are you just following the lemmings? That will make the most difference in your outcome.
Thank you very much for your reply. 1. I guess "too smart to be an actuary" isn't the best way to put it, people are smart in different ways. But I feel that I wouldn't be doing what I am best at if I becomes an actuary. I am best at math/computer algorithm. 2. What do I want to do? That's a question I have been constantly asking myself, and I haven't found a really good answer. Roughly speaking, I want to do what I like and good at, and make a lot of money. I don't have any working experience other than actuarial consulting. But based on what I have heard, that seems to be quant/trading. Please correct me if I am wrong. 3. I do think actuary job is indeed very good, and I can probably get into a good MBA program, but what's after that? What if I don't want to do banking or management consulting? What other things do MBAs do?
@"IlliniProgrammer" @"CompBanker"
For the record most quant careers begin when people with no prior finance experience find themselves needing to get jobs. That's fine. Most quants find that they like their place in the industry more than most jobs out there.
I think there is a really big question here of academia vs. industry. With a 3.8 from Courant, OP probably has the option to get a PhD from a school at or around the level of NYU. This includes a discipline like Econ, Finance, ORFE or CS in addition to Math. One of my friends graduating with an Econ PhD turned down a $250K offer to teach at a state school. That's pretty good money for 50 hours/week (20 hours in the summer) and a stable job doing interesting work, teaching students, and making the world a better place.
One last point is that it's easier to get a job in finance- even a quant job- with an internship.
Hopefully this gives you some things to think about.
Thank you very much for your reply. 1. I thought I wanted to be a pure mathematician 2 years ago, but I kinda gave up that idea already. I know professor is a really good job and all, but for some family reasons, I don't really want to do it. Besides, I heard it's insanely hard to get a tenured-track professor position. My uncle got his phd from MIT, and he had to switch schools many times before he got his tenure in a state school. 2. If I go for a phd, I would definitely expect a good program. But I am not exactly sure what major to go for. What kinda of job did you friend got as an Econ PhD?
Also fwiw the best quants have PhDs. I spent one class, one semester learning stochal as an MFE. I spent 18 months using linear algebra. PhDs spend years doing this before they graduate.
I'm not going to downplay an MFE. And five or six years is a long time if you don't want to go into academia. But there is non-trivial value in years 3-6.
Haha, I totally agree with you. I think PhD is a little overkill for a job outside of academia. Do you think I stand a chance getting a job like that right out of college? If so, how? I would like to get a MFE, but I have to ask my parents for money again, which I don't really want to do.
I'd look at the MFE (or similar) programs at Princeton, Columbia, Carnegie and MIT. If you really want to go that way.
Personally I'd just go for Google, Apple, Qualcomm or Microsoft. Being a technical program manager is a sweet gig.
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