What do you guys think of the female analysts you work with in HF
Curious how people perceive the female analysts you work with at your shop? If there are any. Please don't say stupid stuff like if they're hot or not. Do you think they're smart/equally good, what do you think of their communication styles and leadership styles.
I've found women who self-select into HF world are generally no different from the men. They should be quick thinkers on their feet, have strong convictions, and not afraid to defend their position when attacked. Unfortunately, I think mostly due to social conditioning and self-selection, not many women love putting themselves in this position and thus low gender diversity in HF seats. You just have to be comfortable with constantly being confronted by others and argued against, while keeping in mind this is not personal and emotional. Generally, I find that your average non-finance woman is more averse to this type of environment than your average man.
What I've observed in PE is that more women are attracted to this industry as it is more IB-like and there is a strong pipeline of females going into IB these days. My view is that women associates/VPs are equally capable of doing the analysis and managing the deal process. Where you see women hit a "glass ceiling" is because many (not all) fail to assert themselves in IC settings or in presence of senior partners. I don't see this as an indication of incompetence but rather a product of cultural conditioning. Frankly, it's better social manners to not insert yourself into conversations you weren't encouraged to or have strong opinions about something you just started learning about. But some guys recognize that this is the way up and how to get noticed, so they do it more. Senior partners are generally indifferent/ignorant as to what the average VP is working on at any given moment, so you have to take these public forums to let your presence known to be remembered. This issue is worse at larger firms. So while a lot of guys find it obnoxious when others do it, they learn to insert themselves into situations and come up with soundbites that sound smart anyways.
The classic business environment was just built by men that rewards a bit of psychopathy and punishes empathy. The average woman (but not all) happens to find this setting understandably uncomfortable.
the last paragraph is especially true
as a female analyst myself, just curious to hear if male investors would behave differently at work vs. in personal life...I personally enjoy this job because it's intellectually challenging and I don't feel super uncomfortable self-defending myself if I have confidence in my work. I don't typically bring personal emotions to the job and don't think the industry is getting paid for being empathy or not. Feel this mentality should apply to all investors regardless of gender (I would imagine it also applies to many other jobs outside of finance if you want to be successful in career). That said, my mindset would be very different when I'm with my family/friends after work. The point is just that every person can have many facets to their personality.
I try to be clinical and intellectually honest with my investment decisions. Many firms reward being loud over being nuanced. I think this is very dangerous and appreciate investors who prioritize reaching the right decision over advocacy. Perhaps a higher proportion of women take this balanced approach - there are certainly a lot of women investors in my network who do.
I do think there is value to empathy in this job, whether it's understanding the pressures a CEO is facing or putting myself in the shoes of a client or colleague so you can address their issues. These skills become increasingly important as your career progresses or if you become an entrepreneur.
While I don't always agree with her, I thought Damsel In Distressed was an insightful book about hedge fund careers in general and some of these gender dynamics specifically.
If say the majority are the same in and out of work so generally unpleasant.
I keep most other finance people as acquaintances but their not my close friends that I confide in
I work in LO rather than L/S but do fundamental analysis. this question is interesting and I've honestly not thought about that super much. Like OracleofBromaha put it, I too am extremely clinical in the way I work, with many even describing me as a bit robotic to work with. so especially compared to the typical investor, I'd consider myself quite emotionally detached. nonetheless, having empathy is a good thing! (and frankly I should probably be a bit more empathetic with coworkers myself!)
I'm fairly friendly with my coworkers both in and out of work and I don't see a major shift in personality when out with them socially vs. in the office with them. Everyone definitely has multiple parts of their personality but some of the biggest parts stick with you wherever you go. Being able to compartmentalize this remains critical if you want to ensure your investment decisions and your communication around those decisions can both be executed well.
do you know your coworkers feelings on this? I'm really curious.
Haven’t seen much difference between male and female in my HF experience at all. So much of the job is spent by yourself and whether you’re good or not is dependent on returns. Don’t rly see bro culture either
The first thing that strikes me is that the women I am friends with this industry usually aren't as loud as the guys (though it is an introvert industry) but they are quietly tougher than the average man in the industry. I think this may be because on average it was harder for women to break in and stay in so it self selects for toughness.
Some examples:
1. Fund is down a lot. The male partner wants to close, the female partner doesn't. Instead she wants to restructure the cost base, do some of the work they were outsourcing personally, and ride it out.
2. Two folks lose their jobs when their fund closes. Guy gives up on finding another seat after >1 yer unemployed and exits the industry. Woman keeps grinding, gets a job after >2 years of searching.
3. Most women raising funds are used to doing a lot of hustling, hearing a lot of nos, and knock on more doors and bounce back from more rejections. A lot of men who launch funds have had pretty golden careers/pedigrees. The hard work and talent are real but the path was pretty linear, and that success can make you fragile. They can be unprepared for how little most LPs care when you're the 700th launch of that year. I hear a lot more complaining from the guys about how it's harder than they expected after getting rejected >100x. I have never met a woman who expected it to be easy to raise a fund.
As I said above, I appreciate that my female friends in the industry rarely overcook or oversell a thesis, and that they generally overcame obstacles to be here, which usually correlates both to being resilient and to having a strong internal desire to be in the industry.
There are a lot of stories about male investors starting stock picking at 12, being very performative about how obsessed they are with the markets, etc and this can be intimidating to people (not just women) who come at it later, disconnect occasionally, etc. But in my experience passion is important but its more of a mature sustained interest than some of these more over the top manifestations you hear about.
I have mentioned this elsewhere, but I think Damsel In Distressed is an excellent book about one woman's HF career - I don't agree with all of it, but it's funny and thought provoking.
One other comment. Women can have a harder time getting access to some of the informal social networks in the industry. While you don't absolutely need this, and too much cross pollination can actually compromise intellectual independence, it can be helpful to have answers to questions such as: Is this fund good to work for? What does someone with 30 years of experience think are the traps in these kinds of companies? Or to put in a good word if you need the next opportunity.
Women deal with this in different ways - some just put their heads down and don't interact much, others think deliberately and creatively about how to overcome this. But the net result of not always being let in to what can still be a bit of a boys club is that women investors tend to have smaller but sometimes deeper networks. They also tend to go out of their way to be responsive and helpful to the peers who do treat them seriously, which makes them quality friends to have.
I know I responded above already but I think this comment is actually super true. The informal social network of old boys clubs does assist men in their careers in a way women just don't have access to. It might seem minor, but if you work for a company that is especially face-time heavy, this is more important than you might think.
Im not in a HF (yet) but like women in any professional field, if they’re as competent and work hard idgaf what their gender is… just contribute equally and don’t pull the gender card if/when the going gets tough or make it your identity, demonstrating to everyone that it is because of your gender that you are where you are.
I’d work tomorrow for a female-led Baupost if she put up similar results to old Sethy.
Similar vein: I’d vote a female president in tomorrow, so long as she’s a strong candidate on her own and her platform isn’t about her gender, either as her being a token or her entire platform about her gender.
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