Are people on here over dramatic?
I’m a current first-year student at a non-target, but we have a good mentorship program for IB and have had good placements out of it. I’m pretty positive I want to do IB, but I can help myself but question my interest after reading what some people say on here. I’ve seen people describe it literally as hell and make it seem like they hate every minute of their job. Is it really like this? To me, I feel like I would be grateful to be making around 150k out of college, and with the research I’ve done and limited experience I have, the work involved seems quite interesting to me. Let me know if you think that comments on here are more skewed to the negative side, since it’s probably easier to come on here with complaints rather than taking time to say anything positive. I say this all very humbly, as I am only a freshman with 0 experience working in IB.
Edit: I appreciate everyone’s insight and it was great to hear some diverse opinions on this. I’m definitely gonna stick it out with IB
Anything worth doing will be difficult, applies to anything.
Happens to apply heavily to banking. There’s very few jobs that you will obtain at 22 years old that has standard 110k base + bonus. Careers are LONG, the analyst stint is 2 years.
Also remember it’s more of a natural reaction to seek support in bad times rather than good. there’s a lot more posts on here about failed recruiting attempts than celebratory offer acceptances. What you read on threads aren’t the voice of all bankers. Not to say it’s a cakewalk by any means.
Makes sense thanks for the response.
BUT WHO IS THE DRAMTIC
So how do feeel when the baker go 
I am banker for banker 
bro?
It's a generational thing.
Call it old but I don't care. Gen Z have very little stoicism (generalisation but holds true in the majority).
There's an entitlement that they want 50 hour work weeks and a salary of 100k+ at 23 years old. That simply doesn't exist or its such a minority its not relevant to most.
Analyst and associate is a very small portion of your working career.
Forget the complainers on here. Go for it and see whether it's for you or not.
Yeah I can definitely see where you’re coming from on this one. Bigger salary = more work, and that’s what people sign up for with this job. Sometimes I do notice entitlement among my peers when it comes to this stuff.
Ok, boomer
100k isn’t what it was when you were an analyst grandpa
Analysts got paid about the same money pre GFC not adjusted for inflation. Now it seems people go into it because it is a risk averse way to make money, have prestige, etc.
How are you adjusting for inflation? CPI? I bet it would look a lot different if you compared average NYC analyst basket of spending from both time periods.
Being a junior in IB is a shitty experience, no other way around it. Its one of those things that you hate it when you were in it but would look back fondly. Obviously no 30 year olds are spamming an online forum with "IB appreciation threads".
Alright, let me clarify one thing if your school has more than 10 alumni on the street and club that places people you do not go to a non target, you go to a very low semi target. Non target is somehow who goes to a school that has less than 10 alumni, most of whom are MBA hires and have no placing IB club. The situations are extremely different. But your right most people complain too much.
I said the same thing on another post and I got ms from people who said it’s like war. My parents came to America and worked for years back in the day for pennies in basically slave labor tech jobs. I will be making close to 200k working probably less hours for a big company with a lot of perks and I’m not anywhere near as smart or special. I don’t understand how people think this isn’t worth the sacrifice. As an a2a what are you really doing that’s more important from 22-27/28. After that you can always leave to prioritize family. Sorry you couldn’t go to the Bahamas with your buddies to get blasted and had to sit in the office and get paid 100,000s instead. Looks like you’ll just have to do more stuff in your early thirties with even more money! The horror! Most of gen z will struggle to retire and get by and guess what they probably work 80hours too from all the side hustles and bullshit they need to do if they want a chance of getting ahead.
bring on the ms.
The reason is your opinions on this matter are too strong for an incoming intern.
Couldn't agree more, similar background as well. Tired of all these "Woe me, I have to cancel my evening cocktail and mimosa plans with my girlies from Exeter to work at my $200k+ job right out of college". Nothing worth having comes easy, and most of these "20 Y/O entrepreneurs" end up doing the same monotonous shit even if it is on their own, just a different flavor.
I agree with most of this but there’s a big difference between working 80 hours per week to keep a roof over your family’s head and choosing to work 80 hours to make $150k instead of $90k at 23 years old. IB is all about delayed gratification and life isn’t guaranteed. The sacrifice is a personal choice.
Yeh but how many of those people making 90k in some random ass business dev job are on track to make 600- 800k as a vp3 or something at 30, they’ll be lucky to scrape 200 if they stay on that path. Nothing wrong with that, but acting like people ride this job for analyst comp is just ridiculous and disengenous. If you really think they 90k corp dev path is just as good they’d be happy to have you with your experience.
Lol the opinion of someone that hasn't even done the internship is insane. You won't be thinking "this is the most important thing I could be doing at 23" when you're consistently making 4am powerpoint edits for something that ends up not mattering.
Don’t worry, this incoming intern MD knows for a fact they will excel in this and the $70K post tax they make as an analyst 1 will make it all worth it
Lmao I can bet my whole paycheck that this same kid will complain about thinning hairlines, weight increase and heart palpitations a year in to IB, if he can manage to get a role. I used to think like this too but hope you realize how precious and short life is to be spent 12 hours a day in a cubicle, specially in your 20s. It is just insane how we keep coping with these unacceptable workplace trends.
You'll need to decide for yourself. IB places a huge demand on your time and personal life. Some are OK with it, others want their life back
It's hard but the complaining is also part of the humble brag culture "look at me I'm sooo important working every waking minute because I'm sooo important"
It’s impossible to understand without going through it. A nuanced part of why people are as vocal as they are is because over the past ~5 years banks have straight faced spewed non stop BS about work life balance etc.
Experience varies but working for essentially all of your waking hours takes a toll on you physically and mentally. You don’t know how you will respond until it happens to you. Some don’t mind it but I would say they are the minority, certainly not a plurality.
I am A2VP and actually understand Gen Z’s outlook more than other senior bankers. I also don’t feel like work is the most important thing in the world. If I were an oncologist or something I think I would feel different.
Pay has been stagnant over the past 10 or so years now, factor in inflation and it’s net negative. IB pay is still pretty much as good as you are going to get but it’s not great that my MDs were making the same as me (likely much more) during their VP years.
I notice some vitriol on this site for people who aren’t completely bought in and the common refrains are money, learning etc. I do think IB is a great start to a career in many ways but think a lot of the prospective interns here will be shell shocked full time at what an 80-90 hour week looks like and what multiple of those weeks looks like, what months of those weeks look like so on and so forth. The learning curve flattens pretty quick and at large banks the MDs don’t even really know all of the analysts names so you’re essentially just there as a mule to do the work others don’t want to.
All of this to say, people have legitimate gripes about the industry. I have done this job for 7+ years now and what goes on shouldn’t be the norm. The industry is way behind probably any other industry with technology which factors into the inefficiency which drives the (unnecessary) long hours. The level of stress and the lifestyle that comes with this is not healthy. Understand that going in before shutting others down who discuss this.
Banking really sucks ass so bad but people are over dramatic about it. You are working in an office fucking around with excel and PowerPoint, it’s not that serious. And the benefits hugely outweigh the downsides which is why it’s so competitive to get it and why so many people say they’d do it again.
it’s pretty well documented the brutal WLB of the job and how to do well and manage you life well enough so you don’t fall apart during it.
Analyst years suck but you make great money. Feel it has been worth it so far. It doesn’t get better as you become more senior, which is why I won’t be staying in it long term
Didn’t read ur post but to the title
YES
A lot of people in high finance are trust fund babies that have never worked a day in their lives because they needed to. The other ones are just the ones that burned out and tend to be more vocal.
So yeah, you’re pretty much right on the nose about the overreactions. Finance is a solid career if you’re trying to build your wealth with minimal upfront dollar investment
All I have to say is when it's bad it's really bad. For some people banking will just be a normal job where you have to work late from time to time but it can also be incredibly shitty if you're working under abusive people + the hours/little sleep which really messes up your brain chemistry + the unpredictability blowing up every minute of downtime: it quickly spirals. I give people here the benefit of the doubt because it's very rarely just working hard/long hours that gets to people.
"Are people on here over dramatic?"
Yes. A big part of this forum is venting frustrations which leads to a lot of this over-dramatization
I think it's very hard to estimate the actual schedule for prospects which doesn't seem that impossible on the surface. You work 9am - midnight for 5 days a week and 7 hours per day on the weekend, and you get to 89 hours. That is still a ton of work, and it's hard to have much life outside of your job. The challenge is when you sprinkle in a few fire drills and all-nighters it starts to get way worse.
Not only is it a lot of hours - it is massively unpredictable. It becomes very hard to catch up on sleep at some points. I chose to forego sleep to have a social life. The good thing in NYC at least is that many of your friends will be out at midnight virtually any night of the week, depending on their own deal cycles. You can still go out, see friends and miss a couple of hours of sleep which isn't that hard with an average of 9 hours off per weeknight for many analysts. You already had dinner at work, and you maybe took an hour to go to the gym so there's not much to do outside of work other than sleep, plus your apartment will probably suck so who wants to stay at home?
Once you drop in busy times and some 3-5am nights all of this math starts to break down. I didn't hate being an analyst and the "normal" hours never really bothered me. It was much more the times when you have 3 weeks of 110 hours in a row, which used to happen semi-frequently (I was long before the WLB stuff). That is also largely beyond your control, and it usually happens at the least convenient times. There is also a consistent feeling of always being on-call and figuring out how to manage that.
I grew up in a developing country and although we weren't wealthy by US standards, we lived comfortably and got a good education. My school was a great one but also had a focus on doing charity as it was founded by priests many decades ago. So to graduate, we had to go to the AIDS hospice and massage AIDS patients who were bedridden (we obviously wore PPE) and then had to tour the ward with the dying babies. The guy who I massaged and was talking to, started opening up and crying because he got HIV and didn't want to believe it so he continued sleeping with his wife, and now she was sick and they had a baby in the ward. Yeah, so you do that and nothing in banking seems too bad because unlike those poor souls, you can walk away whenever you want.
Great insight thank you
For some people the issue is being overdramatic, for others, it's being developmentally delayed.
It is truly as bad as people say it is. The work itself is not particularly difficult, the people you work with dictate your experience. Work is work and it sucks, but if you’re all in it together at least there’s a sense of camaraderie
Worst experience you could have is getting staffed with a complete asshole who makes your life worse than it needs to be
It really depends the era and the shop. The people who are all “my parents came from ____ or some sob story, so IB is easy” I think are missing the point and may or may not have experienced a bad IB environment. They also don’t get human psychology in my view.
I don’t think people are overdramatic because so few analysts stay in IB to associate. That should tell you something. Basically every year a substantial majority of IB analysts leave—they aren’t doing that because they are happy. Also important, this forum can act like those kids are soft, but a vast majority are the ones who were more disciplined and focused on average. So basically, IB takes the hardos of universities and by the end of 2 years a majority are so miserable they want to leave.
In my experience, it’s hard to understand IB stress until you’ve experienced it. Also, it’s hard to get a bad environment until you’ve been in one. A few comments on my experience:
Is IB that bad? Based on the fact that everyone leaves, yeah it’s pretty bad. Is it exactly like the worst horror stories on the website? Probably not, since there is selection bias and the people writing those stories often want sympathy because they feel powerless and alone in their roles. Some firms are better, some firms worse.
I still think it is worth it for a short period of time, but the people who get on their high horse thinking because you are paid x, you should have a miserable existence just don’t get the cost of that miserable existence on a multiple year horizon.
Thank you for the response
This is a great, accurate post. The key thing I would highlight is have friends and prioritize social time. IB can become isolating. Have a few things to look forward to every week.
I was lucky to have a couple of cousins and college friends in NYC during my analyst time, plus several good friends from work. Having a couple of social groups to make plans with makes life way better. This is what I referenced about skipping sleep in my above post.
My cousin and I never seemed to have to work late on Mondays so we started to go out every week and learned about industry nights and model parties. We'd go out for a couple of hours, meet some people and head home at 2. It didn't ruin the week as we were generally up that late anyways, but we'd always look forward to it. Once we started going regularly some other friends would prioritize it, and it got even more fun. Tuesday always seemed like a slow morning as most seniors were traveling after Monday meetings and the office was quieter. Part of this is figuring out how to game the system to your needs as well. Our Mondays were honestly way more fun and less expensive than fighting crowds on Fri/Sat nights.
Just as an example of the variance:
My experience they had to put in a protected Saturday rule after too many people went to the hospital—again pretty bad.
Simultaneously, I had a close friend who was in IB at the time and he trained for a marathon and told me he rarely worked past 6 on Friday and never Saturday. Also, it was rare they stayed up past midnight. I remember us exchanging notes on our experience and it was like we worked different jobs. Both were well known great names on this forum.
Later he went to PE and had similar hours to the hours I had in IB. He called me and was like, “dude, is this what your banking experience was like? Wtf?”
So, it really is quite different from shop to shop and again even deal to deal. Some firms have infamous middle managers or MD’s that burn people out. I remember on my way out my staffer even commenting that he knew once I got staffed with x person I was going to leave. That’s the sort of stuff that makes IB so bad and why it stays bad—there’s a complacency and acceptance of just horrible treatment and retention that even if you aren’t the culprit, staying in the industry means you are ok with it.
IB is truly such an odd job. I loved it, learned a ton, it opened doors, I think a lot of things are necessary and are hard to change, but there’s just some structurally broken things with the field that make it truly one of the worst career paths.
again, I get it’s not Alaskan crab fishing, but IB and M&A big law take over your life in a way that is really quite bad. You need to be an odd person to handle it, most people it’s really quite a disaster.
Cool story and all bro but you gotta speak to monkeynke who can help you better understand why IB isn’t bad. He is an incoming summer analyst who seems to already be quite the deal maker. You’re just overreacting / being dramatic. Monkey, set this guy straight. Months of sleep deprivation is nothing!
Fr... As an intern that has spent cumulatively >1 year interning in banking, even with the timing split up, and even as an intern, the hours take a toll. Not even gonna talk about the ANs and ASOs but sleep deprivation is horrible. They don't use it in torture methods for nothing too... (okay banking is not THAT bad but really don't underestimate it). I had 9-4ams in office for 5 days in a row, and by the 6th day, I could feel heart palpitations... And I know I have no health issues etc. because I just went for a health checkup a period earlier too and my family doesn't have a genetic history of that.
It's crazy... I see the FTers abusing caffeine, nicotine pouches, vapes... all so they can slog the tough times through.
Putting aside the stress from the work, just the physical toll on your health is bad enough. You can be sick - but a live deal is a live deal... Happened to me and some other FT-ers before, and even when the staffer/manager knew, it just goes: "Oh no sad to hear that. Hope you get well soon. Btw can you still get this to me by tonight?"
Everything thrown together truly wreaks havoc on any fresh graduate or young adult out there, and the impact is worsened when you see your Gen Z friends (I am Gen Z too) living life and enjoying whereas you are at your desk spreading comps or some shit.
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