Do Female Junior Bankers get treated better than Male Junior Bankers by MDs/VPs?
I’ve seen a lot of commentary on this forum and wanted to get a gauge on whether this Beckie stereotype is true.
Claims that female analysts and associates:
-Are treated more kindly when they make a mistake
-Generally get to leave the office earlier
-Have seniors explain something when they don’t understand vs being yelled at or critiqued like a counterpart male junior banker
-Get relatively less work assigned 80%-90% of a male colleague
-Have seniors apologize to females more often when the MD realizes he/she was rude/mean
Yes 100%. Happens a lot at least at my bank
Interesting results rolling in
Happens but is a sign of a bad culture and/or a dysfunctional group. Whatever you think of DEI, the fact is that it's here in banking and from what Dimon and Solomon have said in defense of it against Trump, it is here to stay. However, what is unacceptable to me is treating a group of people better or worse than others while in the workplace, which is something I have more direct control over. I think in my group the seniors all treat women and men analysts the same; we don't do much yelling at anyone though and try to explain something to juniors when they don't understand.
Solid answer
Haha you are quite free to respond to almost all topics in this forum. Good for you
The answer I am afraid is yes, but also believe it’s largely because women tend to be more outspoken when something is wrong, whether it’s with HR, colleagues, or on social media.
Do these posts usually within 30-45 min bursts; mostly during times I am in meetings I do not need to be on. Figure I might as well give back to the forum and give thoughts of someone more senior.
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Honestly it depends. Have seen instances in finance where if you're female you get treated better, and other instances where you're treated worse. Could be people thinking women are softer so they coddle them a bit, could be older dudes being creeps, or senior women trying to be more sympathetic and taking them under their wing. Could also be people being anti-DEI and coming down harder, good old sexism, or even women tearing down other women.
I believe it’s largely because women tend to be more outspoken when something is wrong, whether it’s with HR, colleagues, or on social media.
Besides some female juniors tend to inflate situations. most of seniors prefer not even working with them
As a woman, I have been yelled at and criticized by seniors, same as the male analysts/associates. I have been told by colleagues that I will only move up because I am a woman, I am a fucking idiot and I don’t deserve my job as a woman. I have also been groped by drunk colleagues and told that I need to drink more if I want to be one of the boys. Are males and females treated differently in IB? Sure, maybe. But it’s not all slanted in a positive direction. Being one of a few women in a male dominated environment comes with a lot of different challenges.
my biggest fear in life is properly parenting my child and it ends up pathetic like you
Disgusting comment. You should be ashamed of yourself
Yes to all. From my experience, banking is a very male dominated field and seniors try extra hard to do what it takes to keep women around for optics purposes.
I’m gonna get MS’ed for this, but my stance is that it’s not productive to argue whether or not favoritism towards women exists in banking, because it indisputably does. However, it is worth debating whether this is right or wrong for employers. I get annoyed with women who deny the fact that they get preferential treatment, but I go back and forth on whether this is good for employers.
As a woman, I have been brought to client meetings and then told where to sit to highlight the fact that the team has a woman on it. Or told to chat a client up because he likes young women. These “optics” also aren’t all that appealing from the woman’s perspective. As a young analyst, there was no way that I would have had the courage to speak up in these instances. It was embarrassing and overwhelming for me. So when you see a senior woman helping out a younger woman, this may give you some insight as to why. I will definitely give back in the same way in the future.
Fair, and I’m sorry for that experience.
However, all things being equal, yall get paid materially more and are given easier fast track opportunities for doing essentially the same or less amount of work in 2024, so take the win where you can.
Not trying to discount your experience, but take the win. If you’re not capitalizing in today’s day and age, that’s on you.
Male here - no. I’ve seen many women go through just as rigorous workloads as the others but have smaller support groups than men to get through it.
It’s a boys club as well, so they generally don’t fit in the culture as easily so are treated as outsiders.
The only positive in their favor is that they are harder to fire and that is a good thing, there are just way too many men in this field.
Also will say some of the best senior bankers I’ve worked with are the females who’ve made it through (although likely selection bias given how hard it is to stay on and break through the glass ceilings)
100% yes.
For sure. Senior male bankers tend to take a more measured, less confrontational communication style when interacting with female junior colleagues. But I think it’s just fundamentally human nature for males to be inherently more gentle, protective, and accommodating towards females. It’s like how your dad would treat you and your sister differently. At the end of the day, your performance evaluation will ultimately be based on your skills and ability as a junior. Having the looks alone just doesn’t work in our industry. On the other hand though, if you have the looks and brain as a female banker, the sky is your limit.
This is a topic I have very strong views on. I was in a top group everyone has heard of.
The sweatiest senior bankers in my group would never take women on their deals because they didn’t think they could do the work, so they always avoided the worst staffings. Women were also allowed to be mediocre and still well-liked and had good reputations and got promoted, but as a guy you could not make mistakes in the same way. Certain seniors would flirt and go out to expensed drinks with groups of women in the office, leaving the men on their deal teams to cover for them. And the demeanor of the rudest, meanest MDs and VPs would change when working with a woman. They would just not be rude in the same way. So do I think women have it easier in IB? Definitely. Do I think there are still negatives for them like creepy MDs and not being trusted to do good work? Yes. My best friend from my analyst class was a woman; I saw her experiences firsthand. If you are a woman you have to work twice as hard to prove you’re as good as everyone else, because the path you took to get there was way easier.
The females in my group on average are just as hard working and smart as anyone else and in that sense I'm fine with them.
That said, the seniors are clearly giving the girls and only the girls any opportunity to step up, become more visible, fast track promotes, leadership stuff, you name it, better comp (for same productivity). There's an element of fostering the next generation that the guys are missing on. That's what I find unfair.
I don't mind them getting this treatment. I mind that it comes at a cost towards the rest of us.
this screams im 30 and no one will date me
At least for my group, the junior women bankers definitely get treated better when they fuck up than the guys do, except for when our one female MD is on a deal. My take is that higher up women crush junior female bankers. I don't know if it's because they have no sympathy for them, but we've had multiple junior women quit and all say it's because of the female MD we have. That MD doesn't operate that differently from the other seniors in my group though.
100% you have to always hire at least 2 Beckies (preferably at the same level), otherwise they will be eternal victims and game the system. Best bet is to put them under female MDs as then they can’t complain misogyny and either work hard or disappear from IB
The poll above just wants to label all men on this forum misogynist.
Here is a better poll, look at results.
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investment-banking/dei-poll-0
How do you still explain ~50% quota in hiring and promotions when only ~20% candidates are female. Good thing is Trump knocking some sense into these woke liberals
incels really coming out of the woodwork here
Anecdotal - but the ones that suffer the most are the 'competent' female employees that get shat on because their female counterparts are absolutely useless.
+ if you're ugly - this doesn't apply. You're a merit hire.
Obviously, yes.
Blackstone' Restructuring & Reorganization Group (Top Group on the Street before they became PJT) never hired any women for a reason.
So easy to tell who is actually in industry and who is larping 😂😂😂
Sorry you’re mediocre
My experience is mixed, old shop treated about the same. However, we were all guys at the level I was at. Newish job, women on my team seem to be treated better from seniors. They have been given some extra work, but not doubled loads like the guys. Also, they never work late - ever. The junior women are never working on weekends. I did notice women get promoted much faster at my old job. Like much, much faster. Me 4 years in, no promotion or meaningful pay raise. A woman in another region got promoted within 1.5 years. I inquired
Working for women has been mixed but the worst managers I’ve had were women. I’ve had female managers that were great. I’ve had male managers I didn’t click with, but we worked together just fine. However, I’ve had some nightmarish managers and all of them were female. It’s simple things where if you make a mistake or miss a detail, men have always said ‘updates this, thanks.’ At worst it’s maybe a conversation. I’ve had much worse experiences with women. One in particular would send a 5 paragraph if something was wrong on a report with the entire chain of command cc’d. This shit happened at times when it was busy as hell and the issue was caused by the shared drive not updating by the time I copied the file. It was maddening. To make matters worse I was working for her because someone left, so it was extra work and close to double my work load. Basically doing a favor and getting reeked for it.
Another thing, they will sexually harass with zero thought. Think tits pressed against your head if they’re looking at something on your computer with you (happened a ton with one manager early in my career). People walk by and your manager is basically pressing her tits on you. Having arms squeezed, chest touched frequently and attempts at footsy. Had one manager tell me ‘she will do anything for me to stay.’ Normally I wouldn’t read into that at all, but after getting mommy molested by her for two years I didn’t know what to think.
During a summer job, a female coworker noticed my penis through my pants when I was sitting. She immediately got up and told the entire team about my dick. I switched shifts and was asked on the first day about my dick by someone I didn’t even know. Don’t get me wrong, being that guy at the office isn’t the worst thing. But it is awkward as fuck when you’re in a meeting and the conversation starts with women - that you would never consider fucking - talking about your dick. Like really fucking awkward.
If a guy pulled any of this shit the woman would get a settlement and the guy’s career would be over. I have a family member who told me about multiple women that would fuck a coworker then sue - everything consensual. All did this at multiple companies. Company would pay, fire the guy and the woman would get upwards to a year of pay on top of the settlement. End up with the company losing money and two employees.
Kif, what are you gay?
Totally
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