End of elitism
Something I've witnessed working for almost 3 years in the industry is the beginning of an end of elitism in banking. I'm at a BB and it's not just ivy league finance majors getting in. No, we've hired some finance majors from nontarget colleges, there's even some marketing research analyst folk who joined us (I think they did some certifications in financial analysis). From the conversations I have with people in the biz, it seems like the trend is toward educational meritocracy.
Your thoughts? What's your experience like?
Getting into banking is systematic. Before the Internet there was a big knowledge void and you got in by knowing people. Now you can have your resume dialed in, pound out emails from linkedin and interview and model prep from a number of Sources. If you're committed and prepare you can break into banking.
The micro coffee drinking, American Spirit Smoking, fedora wearing neck beard hipsters are finally taking over. Students are leaving school saying " why not just work 50 hours a week at a startup, and make a ton of money in a few years on an IPO". Now you can be rich and look like the pringle's man at the same time apparently. As for me, I'm still fighting the good fight to break into good old Wall Street
Lol at your hipster description, that would annoy me too. i've been away from the usa for too long.
I'm of the group to work for a startup, or at least in tech, so you guys know how I feel on that aspect
re: "I'm still fighting the good fight to break into good old Wall Street" - just curious, what's your main motivation?
Main motivation is making enough money to just buy all the pussy i want instead of marrying for it... Cause when you marry for it it's like taking out a mortgage for one pussy
Outside of money? 2 reasons really... 1. I actually found M&A to be rather interesting. You can learn so much about how to run a business, how to pitch an idea, and really influence a companies decision making process.
Chances are i'm not going to have a shot at IBD again until after an MBA. Didn't receive an off after Internship.... still looking for work. Also that description of Silicon Valley was just a joke. There really are some very bright people there. I wonder why they don't have a Silicon Valley Oasis lol
Good points. I agree with most. Just to add my view. Not to get philosophical, but I feel like IB is adjusting to the new world. It's a world where educational credentials matter increasingly less and less and employers just want proof that you can kill at the job. An extreme example of that are coders who can make fucked up amounts of money without ever having even gone to school. I know IB is very different, and is probably the most conservative industry still out there. But we're changing, guys. And maybe it's just my limited perception, but I feel like "target schools" will be a thing of the past.
PS I've got no horse in this worldview as I finished my finance & econ honors at a Canadian target.
Two trends are responsible for this.
First, the top students from the best colleges are not going into banking like they used to before the crisis. They're either going into tech, straight into buyside, or Phd programs, also MBB to an extent. Second, at least in S&T, given the move towards algorithmic trading, banks are looking to hire kids with strong mathematical and programming skills and value that skillset more than the college on their diploma. Of course, a strong CS kid from say MIT/Stanford will have no problem going into S&T, but school alone is not the defining criteria.
I think this is healthy in many ways. It's dangerous when recruiters at top firms basically delegate their vetting process to admissions officers at our best universities. Sure, admission to those schools send a signaling effect, but that presupposes that college admissions is an objective meritocratic process, which it certainly is not.
My boss basically said every non-target intern that has come through our shop has sucked, but he always liked giving kids a chance. If you can learn and have drive you're valuable. The problem was that all the non-targets just wanted to do finance because they liked the idea of making a lot of money, they weren't prepared to actually contribute and use their brain. Therefore, my boss has given up on non-targets.
Yeah cause the targets aren't in it for the money, only the non targets are.
Lol you're funny kid
And while the median intelligence level is probably higher at top schools, there are still extremely smart kids who literally don't even know or care what "prestige" is and go to non targets for a multitude of reasons
There are kids willing to eat your dinner if you don't.
Connections, college and overall eliteness can be reduced to nil by someone with enough hunger and a decent networking email format.
High Five, OP!
(Finally five years later, I no longer look like a fool for running around saying state schoolers make good hires and engineering is not a bad choice of major)
And five years later, you still have a chip on your shoulders. Will you stop bringing up state school engineering programs in every thread that remotely has to do with school? At first it was funny, but now it's getting obnoxious and reeks of state school insecurity. You remind me of those girls who were ugly growing up and then blossomed into hotties and now rub it in everyone's faces. For someone as smart as you, it's unbecoming.
I don't think there's any insecurity associated with going to a state school... I'm very proud of where I went to school, as are you. Nobody gets accused of being insecure for being proud of going to an Ivy, and I don't think going to a state school should garner the same accusations, especially when state schools outrank most Ivies in Engineering. :)
So... what is there to be insecure about?
Well at least the denials are getting more sophisticated.
Part of who I am is that I enjoy shoving my non-eliteness in the face of a guy who has trolled relentlessly about prestige- with thousands of posts about ridiculous resumes, fake emails from HBS pals, MAD SWAGGER, etc. That's not insecurity, that's just Rodney Dangerfield having fun with Judge Smails at Bushwood Golf Club. I own my lack of prestige, my thrift, and my cheap vehicles.
Back to my rusty honda. (Parked in the middle of the seventh hole fairway. No, I'm not worried about the tire tracks.)
I do not understand why this thread became a shit show. Tech is sexy now and the financial services are routinely demonized in the press. Kids from top schools have a wide variety of premier and well paying jobs to choose from. They are choosing tech or other "prestigious" jobs right now and fewer of them are going into banking. Non target kids have less of these "prestigious" options and tend to seek out the highest paying of them (aka finance in general). Also, investment banking isn't a technical field. Finance grads from state college can't break into Google or Lyft without technical skills. They can break into investment banking though with a standard and formulaic approach.
Tech will blow up and people will cycle back into finance, legal, medicine, whatever. Career choices ebb and flow.
As for prestige and snobbery, who cares. Make good money, save some and live your life. At some point in everyones life they just need to accept what is and make the best with it. You can't go back in time and the more you dwell on the past the more you waste value time you could be improving or enjoying your life.
If you really think we are ushering in the end of elitism, read this article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/05/recruitment-resumes…
I was going to be done with this thread, but saw this article and saw the above article and felt compelled to chime in one more time.
1) The best jobs are easily obtained from top schools - Fact and isn't going to change. With affirmative action and Ivy's trying to socially engineer their class rooms it is "easier" to get into these schools without going to the best private schools, etc. Also, lets just be honest. The standards to get into a top schools (AA aside) are pretty damn high. Sure, being rich helps a lot, but that doesn't mean the kids aren't smart. That's just life.
2) There are plenty of very good schools that provide ample high earning jobs. It isn't just 10 schools in the US that can place you in finance or tech. There are probably 50-100 schools US schools (maybe more when you consider regional schools) that can place into these blue chip jobs assuming you are smart. If you went to West South Dakota state and have a 2.5 GPA you probably aren't getting into the best jobs. I fail to see how this is somehow unfair and not reflective of effort before and during college.
3) Life doesn't end if you aren't in the 1%. If you aren't in NYC and you are married to someone of equal intelligence and education, you can easily be in the top 5-10% of earners by your early 30's. Two accountants can be making a combined $150-200K pretty easily after a number of years. Assuming a modest lifestyle you can own your own home and save a lot of money.
This site and this country and become too fixated on what the rich do and how life fucking blows unless you are making millions. You don't need a G wagon and a private jet to have a nice life. It is absolutely ridiculous this concept. The American Dream (house, two cars, savings) can happen easily if you marry someone educated and work in any number of careers. The issue is college students max out their student debt for low paying jobs, complain cause they aren't rolling deep 24/7/365 and then bitch how their life isn't as good as their parents.
Or on this forum people complain that if they didn't go to Harvard they should kill themselves because life isn't worth living without a million in the bank. I attribute the absolute comical disconnect from reality promoted on this site because the majority of the posters are college kids watching Wall Street and Wolf of Wall Street.
Go to a good school, study, try and minimize how much debt you take out and work hard at a good firm and build up your resume and network. Savings > Debt and enjoy life in moderation. And with the multitude of masters and graduate programs being offered by top schools, if you feel a brand is the absolute necessity, save some cash and go get it. Anyone of us could easily slap a top 20 university on our resume if we wanted to part with some time and some cash. Life is way more than a brand and way more than working in NYC.
Seriously people, get a grip.
Just interviewed for an internship at a family office (500 mill+ AUM) where the CFO/ Head Porfolio manager didn't even go to college, dude is clearing over 500k a year.... lol @ prestige hunters.
Great point Bob, I wish I had known that earlier so I could have skipped college and become a CFO