Pretty rare to see people discuss European and Japanese banks on here; they're even missing from some tierlists.
What are non-BB Euro banks (BNP/Credit Ag/SocGen/ING/Santander) and Japanese banks (SMBC/Mizuho/MUFG) like these days?
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Santander is the only really decent non-BB euro bank. The others continue to struggle for market share in the U.S.
SMBC has a very good levfin team for their size.
Mostly everyone is kinda smallish. ING americas is pretty small potatoes compared to their group in the land of Windmills and Clogs. Basically zero deal flow, pay is below the street. Last deal th Netherlands group was buying an out the rest of Goldman Sachs Poland group I think.
I mean either bank are actually reputable banks to start out at, SMBC is much larger of the two.
So basically an internal clean-up deal was their last? :)
Would rank SMBC last of the Japanese banks listed personally. Certainly outside of the US they're weaker than Mizuho and MUFG.
They're great banks if you're gonna work in the country they're based in.
This was more so meant for NY, forgot to mention that in the post. Sorry.
In the US, Santander has inherited legacy Credit Suisse groups in LevFin, FSG, Energy, etc and they’re doing well. I think they might be the best-paying Euro bank on the street right now as well. Also, Mizuho has been quietly climbing; I see them leading LevFin deals occasionally, whereas I almost never see MUFG or SMBC doing so.
What's pay like?
I don't work there so I could be wrong but I've heard of some vp and aso (prob top bucket obv) getting +100% and this is very rare in euro banks including db/ubs
Bump
smbc is chill
Non-US experience here but have worked alongside many of these banks.
Generally M&A coverage groups for these banks are below par outside of respective home countries. BNP has decent M&A in France, for example, but not anywhere else. HSBC is another example - horrid M&A offering (and I believe now shut down in the US), though their LevFin and DCM teams are still half-decent. Comp there is definitely below market from most accounts.
Main two teams that can give decent experiences in these types of banks are pretty much only DCM and selectively, levfin.
LevFin shops in best-to-worst of names mentioned: Santander, MUFG, BNP, Mizuho, SMBC, ING, Credit Ag, SocGen
Worth noting that because these banks normally don't have M&A teams, Levfin will hold the pen entirely for the modelling work and wider deal process should it win a left lead mandate and isn't just participating as a lender.
BNP in Asia (incl. Japan) has weirdly been quite strong as of late, getting TLB left leads for sponsors like EQT and KKR, though it’s weaker in the US.
DCM from best to worst: BNP, SMBC, SocGen, Mizuho, MUFG, rest. A good markets business helps with DCM as treasury teams look to reward those providing liquidity for their bonds in secondary markets, hence Euro bank strength as many have big credit desks.
As mentioned, Santander is a good levfin shop these days with many CS seniors ending up there, comp according to this website also reportedly good but don't know anyone there to confirm.
Interesting insights, thanks. What is WLB like across these firms? When you say that French bank comp is "pretty bad", what does that look like? I imagine that worse comp would correlate to fewer hours worked.
Additionally, what does corp banking look like at any of these names?
Asking because as I begin my final year of school I'm curious as to how I'd like to balance WLB, comp, exit opps etc in my group of choice. Not sure that prestige or dealflow appeals so much to me if I'm not planning on a buyside exit.
Work life balance generally better than BB teams, with less of a facetime culture (bank dependant). A lot of these banks are filled with seniors who were at full service IB's and have moved across to improve WLB, so generally seniors are a bit more chilled.
French bank comp in my experience is especially bad in the first few years as they often label their A1's and A2's as "Trainee" or "Graduate", with base around 20-30% below BB A1 and much slimmer (if any) bonus. If it's your only offer, not a bad seat to use to lateral to a better bank or just stick it out to A3/Aso but it's quite bad. Caveat again this is experience outside of the US.
Corp banking at places like these is fine (slightly boring but good WLB). Project finance however is more appealing, with these banks often better at PF than the BB's (MUFG, BNP, SocGen are all really strong here). Can be very technical and model heavy, with Infra PE possible. If you ever open a Project Finance Infra model, you'll see what I mean. Far more complex and in-depth than anything i've seen used in an M&A context.
Bump
bump, have an offer for bnp afs for sa27, would love to know more about that group, comp, hours, culture, etc. ty!
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