Happiness in IB
Current 2nd semester senior watching the glory days tick to an end. I’m returning full time to a BB where my summer internship was pretty cushy compared to the real deal.
I’m excited about the job and being in NYC but pretty bummed out by the prospect of losing all my freedom. On here and in the real world it sounds like the analyst years are just so brutal.
I’m wondering if people in their early 20s doing banking are able to find some measure of happiness, and how they do it. Are you able to go out/date/pursue hobbies at all? How do you manage friendships/relationships with people on different schedules? I know this has been covered to death on different threads but if anyone wants to share I’d love to hear some perspectives.
Whatever you think, it will be worse. Doesn’t mean not worth doing TEMPORARILY. Do your 2 or 3 years and escape. And no, by escape I don’t mean PE. Think long and hard about your long term goals in the context of today’s world.
PE and most buyside roles are worse but like every starry eyed prospect they will:
This is actually spot on and made me lol.
So what did you do? And how would you recommend using those 2 banking years to set up your future?
Dude I didn’t even last 1 year in banking: I left to a corp fin role and am chilling now. Occasional sprints, but no more depression or 20 hour workdays 7 days a week !
Only downside is no free uber eats :(
7th point cracked me up
Almost too many facts in a single post...Sorry to anyone who actually likes banking but the people who stay in it (e.g., not analysts part of the two-year in and out rotation) fall into one of two categories, in my modest judgment:
Based on what I have been reading and seeing, it looks to me like juniors in IB will almost definitely be made obsolete by tech advances in AI within the next ~15 years. How you get to be a senior person to bring in the bacon while not going through the crucible of the grind remains to be seen...my guess is the banks drastically cut down class sizes to maintain some human element but don't eliminate the roles completely.
Be prepared for your life to change, hard. But don't worry, you will forget freedom and come to love your captors like all prisoners do.
Best thing to realize is that you are no longer in charge of your time. Let that soak in. You will have time to catchup w friends and do social things, but you will not dictate when. So, get creative and seize every moment of free time you get.
The people who stay in this job have a deep desire to make money. So deep they will let it will dominate their life. If that is not you do not worry. You will roll out in time to a greener pasture and find your calling.
My associate said happiness should be in the data room somewhere, just need to find it and summarize it for him by 9pm tn
I recognize IB is a very valuable experience for some, but I will say that I joined a top PE analyst program (not BX) straight out of school and I could not be happier I skipped IB. If you're planning to pursue PE, I always recommend skipping IB (if there's some fund out there you know requires IB and it's you 'dream' obviously this doesn't apply to you).
I ended up staying where I am but I did interview with a few funds during my A1 and I didn't feel like IB peers had any leg up what so ever. The work you do in PE is also just more interesting, IMHO. Also I think people have the wrong perception of the sourcing component. It's not like exactly how people paint it out to be. Sure, I'm sure there are some "glorified cold calling" shops out there but that doesn't seem to be standard across top UMM/MFs.
I'm wrapping up my 5th year in PE this summer and leaving finance for good, but I've learned a lot and have a great prospects.
It’d be great if you can share your next endeavor
Assuming ur probably trying to get a sense of exit opps here...I've looked into all the typical stuff. Start ups, corporate development, corporate strategy. Operational roles at starts ups have been most compelling so far in terms of responsibilities and comp. For those curious, VC is also an option but decided to ditch finance.
It depends on how much sleep you need to function.
In any case, you can do a few things to maximize your happiness:
Call me crazy but I think the biggest thing a lot of guys in finance are missing is a loyal girl who they truly connect with
Based. The dudes with the most longevity have a girl that they love deeply and is loyal and ok with their working lifestyle.
Surprisingly true. My wife and I got together right before I started as a full time analyst. I would’ve probably offed myself if I didn’t have her during those years
Same feeling I have with my girlfriend actually, met her the week before starting a top banking group and surprised she’s stuck around with me given my work schedule. She’s very supportive, says she understands my hours but I know it’s still not fair to her. Banking causes a lot of problems in our relationship but I couldn’t have made it through the past two years without her.
Spot on.
This is most guys, not just finance bros.
I recently decided to leave a top tier BB (think GS, MS, JP) in a solid team (think TMT, IND, HC) because I fundamentally was not happy.
The job did not allow for any semblance of a life outside of the office - what use is making all that money if you have no time or people to spend it on?
My physical health deteriorated (balding, heart palpitations) despite my trying to work out 3 times a week and walking a lot daily. Doctors said it’s the stress and unpredictable sleep schedule.
Although earlier in my career I was truly passionate about understanding companies and valuations and M&A processes the continual bullshit of dealing with obnoxious seniors, incompetent juniors and assholic PE clients. Corporate clients were always nice though.
Although I was on MD track I realised I did not actually want to be an MD - they all had no friends (just clients), no hobbies, non-existent relationships with their families and were frankly bitter people who lived for their next bonus - really not inspiring in the slightest.
I’ll caveat that all of the above may have been because of the bank / group I was in - and I had considered moving to a lower tier bank, but frankly being in my current shop has beaten all joy out of the industry for me.
Ultimately all jobs are bullshit and full of compromises that have to be made - it just comes down to what flavour of bullshit you find most palatable.
What do you do (or plan to do) now?
Pivoting to tech!
Crazy to read that re health. I'm at a MBB but got grinded a lot recently by PE clients and also started to have heart palpitations. I thought I'm about to drop and thats it but then realize they correlate extremely with my anxiety. I.e., project cools down, all gone, weekend all gone, seniors pounding the deck with stickers: extreme uneasiness/palpiations started.
It made me feel like such a dark place. Like something I could not escape even though I knew I wasn't in danger. Made me sick to my stomach.
My heart rate feels elevated and my stomach always is uneasy, but don't worry once you get used to it something else usually pops up to makes things worse.
Don’t worry dog. I was extremely unhappy during my analyst years in IB then was fortunately able to exit to a great seat at a NYC megafund. Now I’m even more unhappy!
This quote from Fury sticks with me when undergrads ask about my experience in IB / PE:
Bible: “Wait till you see it”
Warmachine: “What?”
Bible: “What a man can do to another man”
Btw - writing this as I work for the nth Saturday night in a row on some dumb IC deck that the insecure principal continues to fill with meaningless analysis
You shouldn’t be worried about being a happy person, because you won’t be. However that does not mean you won’t have happy moments, either on the job or out of it. As others have mentioned, just grit your teeth for 2 years and get through it, and move to greener pastures if that’s your thing.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best
As someone who has never had friends or healthy relationships in their life, it's not that bad
I can be your friend
It’s going to be pretty bad. A lot of seniors are losers who just want their teams working around the clock on nonsense. To VPs and others who buy into this: MS me but then spend some time reflecting on exactly what you have done today, last week, last year, last three years…
The people drive the hours, it doesn’t have to be as bad as it is. You will have zero downtime, this means being available 24/7. Many in the industry fundamentally disagree that it would be ok to be “unavailable” (read: at the gym still responding to emails but not turning comments) for an hour a day.
Looking up to MD level, others have said it above but it’s pretty sad. Most have to beg clients for mandates and cater to their every whim. I don’t think most MDs genuinely spend time with their families.
If you are extremely type A and I mean extremely, this industry can work out for you and maybe even be enjoyable. I’m not talking about type A where you want to get good grades and what not, I’m talking about neurotic where you can immerse yourself in the most meaningless possible activities for 16-18 hours a day (oftentimes more) in order to potentially get a pat on the back.
Accurate
This is very accurate. The Type A part rings very true - there’s a difference between the ‘normal’ Type A person where you think to yourself “wow that’s a motivated, intelligent person who I’m inspired by” and the types that stick it out in banking where you say “wow they’re just weird, I almost feel bad for them.”
The latter are indeed the types that are beyond OCD, often neurotic, willing to sacrifice absolutely everything for the job ab absurdum (I have VP colleagues who have cut their honeymoons short for deals) and honestly just strike me as being empty / damaged in some way.
Clearly it’s all subjective but that’s what I found at least. Again I’d caveat by saying I was in an ultra-sweaty group at an ultra-sweaty firm.
I do feel bad for a fair amount of these people but then they pull their typical nonsense that makes life more painful. I try to recognize that they are in a bad place (whether they know it or not) where they do not have inner peace.
These are some brutal comments, but true. Honest answer is being happy during analyst IB is just unlikely. To start, I would reframe your thinking that it is a temporary period of your life that will suck, but things will get better, rather than you are trying to be happy and find fulfillment in your IB job.
Once you mentally accept that, it becomes a war of attrition and outlasting the clock. To outlast the clock, I would recommend setting goals. More specifically, try to have an activity or something you look forward to every weekend and an activity you look forward to every month or month and a half.
Also, as others have mentioned, check your substance use. It’s temping to get blackout on a weekend due to all the stress, but my experience was the anxiety the day after drinking was not worth it and made me extremely miserable. I basically only drank on Friday’s toward the end of my stint and it really helped. Avoiding being overly dependent on stimulants also is key for avoiding heart palpitations and the hospital. Finally, as others have mentioned, you have to get sleep and know how to push back or fake work load to get some sleep if things get too messed up.
Good luck!
Minus voluptas animi nihil praesentium rem omnis. Necessitatibus eos qui provident. Occaecati modi assumenda eos esse sunt laudantium voluptatem. Sit vel optio veritatis et consequatur. Voluptatum sint molestiae blanditiis repellendus nemo aspernatur qui. Doloribus odit commodi enim accusantium veniam assumenda adipisci.
Eum cum ratione qui dolorem. Totam corrupti quia laboriosam tenetur ut rerum. Officiis in in molestiae.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Reprehenderit corporis quas fugit et deserunt dolores aliquid. Aliquam accusantium voluptatem accusantium eos sit in eligendi. Qui nihil perferendis molestiae quia praesentium fugit qui consequatur. Debitis est blanditiis est molestias asperiores vitae. Non pariatur sunt repellat consequuntur necessitatibus vitae est. Rerum et voluptatem rem incidunt assumenda minus assumenda.