How to deal with 2nd year analysts who refuse to work

Currently a post MBA associate who joined this past fall. While the new analysts generally listen and take on a fair allocation of the work, most of the second year analysts give no shits and blow associates in the group off. I knew going in that buyside recruiting and 2022 offers would make some of the second year analysts "check out" to an extent, and I get they have more experience.

But I was taken aback by the amount that they push back, their level of cockiness towards peers, and flat-out unwillingness to do work. And I'm not talking about analysts being turned off by orders being barked to them by a clueless associate. There are instances where I simply ask them to split the work, and they are always "tied up" with something else. I thought the first time it was a one-off occurrence, but it's happened enough times to be a common thing.

Is this a common occurrence across all groups and all years, or is this unique to my group/bank/2021 (I'm at a highly regarded MM if that means anything)? How do you recommend I handle this? I want them to put in their fair share of the work but also don't want to come across as abrasive to the point that they don't help at all, and I get a reputation as a douche associate.

Comments (122)

Oct 19, 2021 - 11:03pm
curiousgeorge21, what's your opinion? Comment below:

what if they're actually just tied up

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Oct 19, 2021 - 11:39pm
breezy443, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I truly hope that is the case. Don't get me wrong, I've worked with some great 2nd year analysts. Some of them even do the majority of the work, while others chip in their fair share and provide guidance when needed. For one particular analyst, we have a mutual understanding that he is recruiting so I give him some leeway, but he contributes when he can and provides guidance that I'm unable to provide. There are however a couple of analysts in the group that consistently refuse to work, and I'm asking about them specifically. Not trying to generalize here.

Oct 19, 2021 - 11:43pm
breezy443, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I'd consider myself a net negative at this point, but not for long. That doesn't address the point though… I'm trying to find a way to get 2nd year analysts more engaged in order to most efficiently and equitably distribute the work. How exactly to achieve this is up for debate, but it's certainly not by me cranking away for 10 hours on a Sunday while the analyst is hung over/does nothing. I'm asking if that's par for the course at this point.

Oct 20, 2021 - 5:39pm
BBA18, what's your opinion? Comment below:

If you want to talk equitably, you probably have a few dozen weekends glued at the desk to catch up to the AN2s.  Seriously though, you should not be distributing work to AN2s so that you can free up your weekend and not have to grind.  You just started and they have more influence in and are more valuable to the group than you at this point.  

If you're passing off work that you could do but for having to grind over the weekend, the only AN2s who are going to take those asks are either too much of a pussy to say no or not any good and feel that they can only add value by putting their hand up for everything.

I come from down in the valley, where mister when you're young, they bring you up to do like your daddy done

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  • VP in PE - LBOs
Oct 21, 2021 - 7:36am

Gonna second BBA18. IMO, you honestly never had the analyst experience and can't really relate to their workload/responsibility. You make this obvious in the thread here whining about a 10 hour Sunday. I bet you your 2nd years have had a few dozen more of those than you. You're also talking about equitability here. This is corporate America, and IB in particular. Nothing is equitable or fair in the least. And the fact that you're implying that your 2nd years are "hung over" or "doing nothing" while making you do 10 hours of work on a Sunday? How fucking delusional can you be, Jesus Christ. And you're talking about professionalism and respect? They're working 100 hours a week. What more respect do you want from them you fucker. I got out of IB as an analyst and will always stand up for my fellow analysts against post-MBA terrors and the like such as this one.

Gonna ask me, "who hurt you?" A couple of Post-MBA associates did. That's why I make posts like these so more analysts don't get hurt in the future like me.

  • Associate 1 in RE - Comm
Oct 20, 2021 - 8:53pm

Lotta salty post mba boys out there apparently

Oct 22, 2021 - 2:04pm
gator10, what's your opinion? Comment below:

All these flavors and they chose salty. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 19, 2021 - 11:49pm

Stop looking at it through a post mba viewpoint and start looking at it from their POV. They've been there a year and the rose color glasses are gone. They know they can lateral pretty easily. You're a new guy that's been on the desk what? 6-8 weeks? 

If you were in their shoes, would you honestly be eager to do any additional work? The realistic answer for most people is no. The name of the game is to look busy and do as little as possible. 

Oct 20, 2021 - 12:05am
breezy443, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Fair point. I don't expect anyone to be actively looking for work, but I did expect a certain level of professionalism and respect towards the team. Like I said before, in 90% of cases people are reasonable but I'm asking about that 10% and what I can do about it. Seems like your answer is nothing

  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Oct 20, 2021 - 12:07am

Hmm, yeah this is me (not at an MM though so not literally me). I've accepted an offer to leave the firm in 8 months, so I'm pretty checked out. I ate shit for my first year and grinded my ass off, so now I let the new joiners to do that. To be blunt, I'm not trying to find the most efficient and equitable way to distribute the work. I still do good work for people I like, just on my own time. It's the way she goes, 2nd year analysts who have jobs lined up tend to check out as there is no incentive for them not to. 

Most Helpful
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 20, 2021 - 12:11am

Dude you just joined. They've been slaving away for over a year have probably accumulated thousands of hours online. You should be taking on more of the work so you can ramp up quicker. I'm not one to allow laziness to slide, but if they've been at the bank for just over a year now and all since this new COVID environment they've probably gone through hell and back. You think they haven't gone through the grueling weeks and 10 hour Sundays?

Right now, you are in the same boat as a new first year analysts straight out of school except you're currently costing the firm more. Once you ramp up and no longer a net negative for the firm then maybe you can look into if your analysts are really just blowing you off.  

  • VP in IB-M&A
Oct 22, 2021 - 12:13am

Lol a 10 hour Sunday. Does OP want a gold star?

Try grinding so hard that you open up your laptop on a Saturday afternoon only to look up and find that it's now Sunday morning and that you haven't had solid food in over 19 hours. 

Career pivots after bschools should be illegal

  • Analyst 3+ in IB - Cov
Oct 20, 2021 - 12:21am

Maybe they're actually tied up? Senior analysts tend to be staffed on more live / active deals as opposed to people who just hit the desk. Or maybe they are just coasting bc this job gets really boring after a year. Either way, hope you're splitting up the work as well rather than just allocating.. 

also I'm currently a senior analyst with the exact opposite issue.. wondering how to deal with associates who refuse to work. pls fix.

Oct 20, 2021 - 2:55pm
HQ, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Some of these associates with WFH have just completely given up on work.. dealing with two that solely send emails to big group chains and check in on work. Don't even check deliverables because they trust second years. Maddening. Want to go to my MD and just tell them to get rid of the associate and plug me in with the salary bump and incremental responsibility

  • Analyst 3+ in IB - Cov
Oct 20, 2021 - 5:24pm

My exact situation... don't even know what to do without seeming like a bitch. My associate does actually nothing work-wise, but then has the audacity to take the lead on calls with seniors when talking about deliverables AH so infuriating.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Cov
Oct 20, 2021 - 12:42am

I mean speaking as one, 2nd year analysts are not gods greatest gift on earth, yeah we all likely got our shit rocked thru covid last year but this associate seems to have pretty reasonable requests, esp. after big raises, big bonuses, and for the most part a better respect/acknowledgement of WLB, contributing to the team shouldn't be that big on an ask.  

  • Associate 2 in IB - Gen
Oct 20, 2021 - 12:51am

If those 2nd year analysts are well regarded by the group and the staffer, you are out of luck and just need to grind thru.  Once you gain more political power, ask the staffer if you can work with other analysts are who less tied up. 

(and no, 2nd year don't want to create profiles and work on random pitches)

Oct 20, 2021 - 1:18am
MakeworkSchemer, what's your opinion? Comment below:

General mindset I learned is that there are always 3 buckets of members on any team- those who take the initiative to get work done, those who will help get work done if asked, and those who simply don't give a fuck. And they likely never will, no matter how hard you try to get them to contribute. Might as well leave them alone and make it work with the people who are willing to grind the job out with. And yes, I learned this from the chapter advisor for my fraternity. Cheers.

Oct 20, 2021 - 1:57am
bottombuckethardo, what's your opinion? Comment below:

senior analysts and wet behind the ears (not finance background) post mba associates are like oil and water, rome and germania, america and socialism, you get my point

Oct 20, 2021 - 10:11am
ENlGMA, what's your opinion? Comment below:

If it's really that consistent, then talk with their staffer to see what else they're on and if it makes sense to put someone else on your project.  If it's really that bad, ask what they're working on when they say they're tied up and ask the associate on that project if they're actually busy and go from there.

Oct 20, 2021 - 11:01am
calvincoolridge, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Honest advice(been in same shoes)

If you really put in the work (stay up late, take as much work as possible), a generally decent 2nd year will feel bad letting you pull all nighters solo and will pitch in.

They are burned out, but most are generally good teammates and they will want you to not die if they see you getting crushed willingly.

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  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Oct 20, 2021 - 11:06am

Breezy, you ask a reasonable question and seem to be making a reasonable request -- that the analysts at least contribute a reasonable amount  of their time and do (a portion) of the work that they're being paid handsomely for. I find some of the vitriol against you quite strange, and it's surprising that many analysts don't morally feel compelled to contribute their fair share.  

Oct 20, 2021 - 4:25pm
PeRmAnEnTiNtErN, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I am going to assume that you are a Prospect (since your title says so). The question you propose is more or less "What is moral in the world of Banking?".  This question I find trivial. Is it moral for a director to keep an analyst up all night?  Is it moral for the VPs and Associates to ping Analyst during vacations for menial task to the point of ruining their lives?  At what point is moral to steal time from protected Saturdays for wild pitches that will probably not stick?  

Do you get what I am saying?  The question of internal morality gets swayed into the gray so often when you get wronged by others.  After your first few times of having to cancel weekend plans for a Friday night ask at 7pm when your VP was sitting on the email for 2 days, you will then understand that many analyst will try and hold on to what little life they have in the WLB.  

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Oct 20, 2021 - 5:02pm

I hear what you're saying, but that's why I couched my statements with the word "reasonable" -- assuming that the OP is making "reasonable" requests, analysts should apportion a "reasonable" amount of their time to help. If you're blowing up an analyst's weekend or sleep time for something that's not necessary, then you deserve to get push-back. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
Oct 20, 2021 - 11:39am

In my group, it was a clear expectation that new MBA associates were to work like first year analysts for the first six months. Not saying that the second years shouldn't be doing ANY of the work, but it was clear from the top to bottom that new MBA associates should be the ones busting their asses rather than the second years when on the same project. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Oct 20, 2021 - 12:38pm

Personally, my sympathies, and Im sorry you are put in this situation. That said, here's really the logic of most second years:

Unfortunately as a 2nd year with a job lined up-I'm basically going to tell you to f**k off if you ask me to do something as a new hire. I get you think you are supposed to be managing me, but I know more than you about this industry, so I'm not going to listen to anything you say really. I also know you have no political capital and even if you have political capital, you aren't going to change my bucket because my rep has been built already. The firm has treated me like crap and I'm trying to do the bare minimum until I go. It's not personal, it's business. The firm used me and I am using them for the last several months. Ultimately I know I'm still very valuable because when a crisis comes up I'm way better than a new hire, but I'm done with the bullshit. I also know where my comp will be and little will change my bucket because everyone knows I am solid even if I dodge work. Also, let's be very clear, even with me dodging work, I'm a way better employee than you are as a new hire. I understand this is frustrating, but it's the business model of banking. They know the second years will check out and that's why they have eager new hires to carry the grunt tasks. We went through it and sadly it's how the job is as a first year-analyst or MBA associate.

If someone I respect asks me to do something or a crisis comes up I always step up and deliver, that's my professional curtesy. I also never am unresponsive. Unfortunately, "dividing work" like creating bs presentations is going to be something I will consistently dodge from here on out because I just don't care. I'm not going to take initiative because I don't care about the transaction and know most the deliverables aren't as urgent as they seem or can be phoned in because a poor work product isn't going to actually matter for many tasks (even though people act like it does) and those that I have worked with all know I can perform when it matters, I just respect myself too much to do tasks that take up time without teaching me anything or really being value add to the transaction.

If this is a recurring theme with a single analyst, you can explicitly call them out and ask them to do something, but if they say they are busy, they either might be busy, or they are dodging work and you can't really prove one or the other. 


Oct 20, 2021 - 1:12pm
BBA18, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Probably not a lot that you can do and depending on the ask/context, not a lot you should do.  As someone who was a AN2 who'd built a lot of goodwill w/in the group not that long ago, no shot that I'm spending any time doing incoming work from a new associate if it's something I wasn't already staffed on and even less of a shot if it's marketing work.  Also, if the ask was doling out bitch work, I wouldn't do it and would suggest hitting up first years for that shit in the future. 

Just build up a good rep in the group and people will be more receptive.  At this point, the top AN2s don't actually see you as above them on the food chain and no one else in the group probably does either, which doesn't put you in a good position to pull analysts onto your staffings.

I come from down in the valley, where mister when you're young, they bring you up to do like your daddy done

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Oct 20, 2021 - 3:33pm
NuclearPenguins, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Yup the context really matters here. It's why I asked in my post what work OP was trying to push off. OP might think it's "reasonable" given they're technically more senior and have a fancy MBA, but if they're bitching about analysts not willing to help w/ a logo splash for a pitch they're not even on, that's an issue.

What OP needs to do is change their frame of mind and ask themselves if they were a 1st year analyst, would they feel comfortable asking a 2nd year to split the work?

Oct 20, 2021 - 1:17pm
iggs99988, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Welcome to banking bud. It's not going to be fun, for the most part (this is just one of many elements). If you're not "into it" and can't envision grinding for the next 3-4 years until you're a mid-level VP who knows the game and can more-or-less coast, I suggest doing what the analysts are doing: get ~1 year of experience and try to go buyside or corp. dev.

Good luck.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 20, 2021 - 4:42pm

juniors are abused so hard an employee with only ONE YEAR experience is essentially just coasting and burned the fuck out because the previous first year was like hell.

then all the new shit tasks then get passed on to the new first years....while the second years are counting the days they get peace out. cycle continues.

in ANY other industry - a second year employee isnt some tenured wise contributor that can start coasting.  they are still learning, participating and being mentored.  there isnt some adversarial relationship between another employee that has 1 less year experience.  

its ridiculous when you really think about it

Oct 20, 2021 - 2:34pm
ironnchef, what's your opinion? Comment below:

make a list, tell the staffer VP the situation, and make the point "this analyst just refuses to work...they are 100% checked out as far as i can tell, and should either be fired immediately, or removed from my list of potential recourses.  They may be capable of doing the work, but they have chosen not to, and are effectively dead weight as far as i can tell.  If they have another job lined up, then fine, let them be unemployed for the next xx months until that new job starts, but this is untenable."

  • Associate 3 in IB-M&A
Oct 20, 2021 - 3:20pm

The staffer would literally laugh in your face if you said this. I've seen a handful of fresh MBAs try to muscle 2nd years or complain and it starts them off on the wrong foot, to say the least.

You can nudge the analysts a bit, but a 2 month old associate complaining about senior analysts is not going to go over well. The senior analysts have other projects, likely live deals, that the staffer will say they are working on. It's not like they are sitting around, they just don't want to do BS work like comps or profiles.

If they are unresponsive, fine - but a brand new associate should be doing the majority of the work at this stage, not tattling on coworkers.

Oct 20, 2021 - 4:34pm
PeRmAnEnTiNtErN, what's your opinion? Comment below:

There's probably a good chance the Associate was not ready for what banking really entailed.  

  • Associate 1 in PE - LBOs
Oct 20, 2021 - 3:27pm

When I became the more senior analyst in my IB group, this became a problem as well with my peers when I would ask for help or needed to defer staffings to other non-busy analysts. Especially with WFH, it was so easy for people to appear busy and say they're always jammed up even when they weren't and avoid taking on work. I literally had these people on social media and they would be travelling/partying/socializing during regular working hours (not even banking working hours) while I was grinding away for 80+ hours / week, and saying they were "tied up". It's not fun, it's not fair, but come time for reviews and bonuses, you can usually make your voice heard. Between now and then, you just have to make up for the work that others won't do. If it becomes an ongoing problem with a select analyst or two, I would elevate the issue to the appropriate person in the appropriate manner just so that it's made known and people can keep tabs on it between now and bonus time. It got so bad in my group at one point that we literally had an analyst go on a month-long mountain-climbing and ski-trip excursion in Pakistan without taking any PTO, without giving any notice to anybody at all, and without doing any work. Couldn't even get a hold of him. Off the grid. Getting paid as a 3rd/4th year. Incredibly frustrating. Nothing to do.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Oct 20, 2021 - 3:48pm

Damn.  Sounds like a baller analyst. Would love to meet him

Oct 22, 2021 - 11:41am
Fundless Fun, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Did adventure boy already have another job lined up? If not he is either reckless, or shares the same last name as one of the partners.

Alright alright alright

Oct 20, 2021 - 5:22pm
fuld4eva, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Honestly, your best approach might be to grind and do the bulk of it yourself. If the analyst is confident enough or busy enough to push back there's not much you can do. Also, since you're new, you need the reps to level up yourself. Until you're as good at their job, they're not going to respect you.

Oct 20, 2021 - 5:23pm
iggs99988, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Also lol @ everyone defending lazy-ass, entitled, bad attitude analysts in here. Just because you've been in the "trenches" for one whole year (wow, so impressive) does not mean you can blow off work you deem is beneath you to a first-year analyst or new MBA associate. You're still getting fucking paid to do your job, so do it. I don't care how many times you've spread comps; you're collecting checks so spread them. I grinded through three years as an analyst and did what the fuck I was told to do. Were some tasks more annoying and rote than others? Yes. But if you're already fully checked out and unwilling to do them, just quit and sit at home until your new start date at job B. You're literally stealing if you collect checks and don't do reasonable quality work. This type of shit entitled attitude (and the associates that are defending it) is endemic to Gen Z imo.

  • Associate 3 in PE - LBOs
Oct 20, 2021 - 6:46pm

"You're literally stealing if you're not doing reasonable quality work" 

As someone who has sucked the cock of capitalism my entire life, I pray to god I never reach this extreme. Just sad mate. 

  • Principal in PE - LBOs
Oct 21, 2021 - 7:45am

You're literally right. This dude is just getting SB'd by prospects who still think this is just about "hard work". There is a difference between being a capitalist and being gay because you want to get railed in the ass by capitalism.

Oct 20, 2021 - 7:44pm
iggs99988, what's your opinion? Comment below:

"Gen Z" had to work a hell of a lot harder than you to even get a shot at getting in the seat in the first place.

Save the sob story for someone else, junior. The Greatest Generation had to work harder than boomers too, and win a world war + endure the depression. No one cares about your perceived disadvantages or the chip on your shoulder. You will be judged based on the merits of your output. 

Oct 21, 2021 - 1:41pm
TechBanking, what's your opinion? Comment below:

"Gen Z" had to work a hell of a lot harder than you to even get a shot at getting in the seat in the first place.

If only you had been there trying to get a job in 2001, you might sing a different tune. 

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Oct 20, 2021 - 8:41pm
anotherm7, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Most analysts are pretty professional - they contribute their fair share of work even after securing a PE offer. However, some are indeed entitled and unmotivated. There was this particular kid who was constantly avoiding work and I decide to speak to his staffer and MDs and my Senior MD told him upfront that he can easily call the PE firm to get them to withdraw the offer if he continues in this way and that pretty much shook him up. It is pretty hard as a new associate, and some cases I had to work across multiple deal with no VPs so I was  ultimately responsible for the whole deck (planning , creating, and checking the content). I trust my analysts but you still have to check their work regardless because if anything goes wrong it is on you not them and they don't realize that it could take up quite some time to create content and check their work especially if dealing with modeling stuff. Some analysts think that just because they have grind through for a year (and that New Asso haven't), the associates should be doing most of the work to 'learn'. Thank god most of them I have worked with are pretty professional so I guess it highly dependent on your team.

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  • Summer Associate in IB-M&A
Oct 20, 2021 - 8:51pm

THIS. Not sure why second year analysts believe its completely riskless to skate by in year 2 because they have an offer. Finance (PE, VC, IB, HF) is a relationship business and a small world. Not doing the work now, even though you've proven you can before, and making your teams hold the bag is not a good look. Tick off the wrong MD and he can tank your shiny PE/HF/VC role quite easily, as he probably knows your boss' boss' boss for over a decade. 

I'm not saying that a new Associate should be piling work on second year analysts' but their needs to be some give and take (analysts still working, Associates striving to learn the analysts' job inside out, etc.). This ultimately seems to be a culture thing, where some teams work seamlessly (even if the analyst got absolutely crushed during Covid - btw probably means their VP's did too) and analysts still put in work in their second year. Less work than their 1st year maybe but not skating by overall. To each their own - remember recency bias is a big thing, your seniors are going to remember your last 12 months way more than your first 12 (even though it was rocked by Covid).

  • Associate 2 in PE - Other
Oct 21, 2021 - 5:56pm

Coasting in an art, do just enough to get by. As a third year I told my MBA associates what I would handle on live deals and what they should do. My MDs would hold me responsible if there was something wrong in the deck or model given my tenure. I did the bare minimum on bs work (profiles, comps, trackers), that's what 1st and 2nd years are for.

@long only funds sorry you never made it out of banking bud. You sound like a god damn clown. Unless your MD helped you get your offer you owe them nothing and likely no one knows where you are going. 

  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
Oct 21, 2021 - 12:11am

I'm a post-MBA VP that's stayed up later than analysts plenty of times and cleaned up their messes over the years. I've also quit jobs >1 time, unlike every analyst. I also think second year analysts should try to help folks out who have invested the time training them, and given how much they're paid, rather than rationalizing their laziness with arguments like "I have a job, COVID was hard, and this is what everyone does." (btw, these analysts tend to get pushed out of PE if they try to stay beyond 2 years, or just go to smaller firms).

OP, first figure out if you can level with your analyst. If they change their behavior, great. If not, then just collect evidence through e-mail that they're not helping you, then e-mail staffer and cc your VP/Director when the time is right (maybe 1-2 weeks) and tell them to staff another analyst since you're not getting the support you need to effectively help the client.

I also think 2nd year analysts who feel burned out and still want a paycheck should own up to their decisions and let their teams know if they don't have the time/energy to commit.

Btw, I've been in this situation plenty of times and I don't always take the path I suggested, I'm just trying to help you think about how to deal with it. Make your own choices. But I usually will at least pull my VP aside and let them know that I'm doing the work and will let them know if I need help. They will appreciate you, temper your expectations, and recognize your efforts and try to be helpful

One more thing. Being staffed on 1 client with a bad 2nd year is fine, you should learn to handle that and recognize you'll own the entire book. But don't repeat that across like 3 or more clients because you're still new and there's only so much you can do. That's really the time to flag the staffer and ask for more analysts.

Oct 23, 2021 - 3:43pm
WallStreet85, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Well said "Associate 2."

Judging by the range of responses to a well intentioned question by a new ASO, it's clear there is a generational (& tenure) gap among all the folks here + certain biases that further makes the ANL-ASO dynamics more challenging to address. 

Having worked my way from ASO to DIR (as well as lateral from one BB to another), the following is the approach I would take:

Spend the first 6 months….

- learning about the job/task at hand (regardless if you're ANL/ASO/VP/DIR)

- don't complain about anyone & have a positive attitude (this is difficult at times, but you have little political capital at this point)

- take on more responsibilities for every pitch/deal you are on (this helps you better understand how to manage up & down better; build political capital; understand how to navigate the new firm)

Stay positive and work towards being a valuable player on the team.

All the very best

Oct 21, 2021 - 10:39am
FinancialModelzNbottlez, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Hahahaa this was me.

The thing is they are probably preparing to lateral.

They also have thousands of hours.

How equitable are you truly being? Do you know their workload?

I am all for sharing duties and I know it's overwhelming at times. I hope you two can discuss or they are simply busy.

Oct 22, 2021 - 12:04pm
FERX00., what's your opinion? Comment below:

I find it boggling that someone can be so clueless about a basic issue

  • Principal in Legal
Oct 22, 2021 - 12:17pm

Post MBA Associates really are the worst. Never met one I liked. 

  • Principal in PE - LBOs
Oct 22, 2021 - 12:18pm

I love these comments arguing analysts should be working so much because they're paid so much.. not sure MBA associates want to take that logic too far. 

Oct 22, 2021 - 12:53pm
DistressedInvestor, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I'll stand up for you... It actually really irks me when 23 year old kids somehow think they have a leg to stand on because they have an incoming PE offer and have 6-12 months left in IB. Most Post-MBAs are coming in with 5-7 years of work experience and have been in office settings for longer than these kids have been out of high school.

Analysts are junior to associates.. just facts. Refusing to work or being a dick because someone is a "post-MBA associate" or you are heading to Apollo and are a "rockstar 2nd year" is irrelevant... Don't be a dick because you are going to find when you go to your prestigious PE fund that you are back to being a 1st year analyst and are going to not have a choice but to work (no more multiple groups and deflecting work to coverage analysts).

If you are a rockstar 2nd year and "amazing" at your job.. why is the default to be an arrogant dick versus being like "hey, I can take the lead on this" or "here's how I do that" and help the rest of your TEAM do things in a better way

I worked at an EB in NYC and there were analysts that notoriously protected capacity and would brag about not working weekends or past 9 PM, meanwhile others got absolutely ROCKED because the work is going to get done by someone. There was an analyst in my class that had a MF offer and was a nepotism offer that would tell VPs he wouldn't do work on their deals and refused to accept weekend turns

Analysts are NOT allowed to bitch about their VPs and senior people giving them turns at 11 PM or being cold to them when this is how analysts think they are entitled to act and treat others on their TEAM.

Oct 22, 2021 - 12:57pm
DistressedInvestor, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Also... I know some really douchey post-MBA associates so that whole thing cuts both ways. There are post-MBA associates who see themselves as superior to the world and are rude as shit to Analysts and leave at 6 and "review PDFs".

Its a fkn team.. It can suck a lot for a few or it can be unpleasant for the class. Don't perpetuate toxic shit

Oct 22, 2021 - 2:45pm
Konkey-Dong, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Life is a series of negotiations.  What do these AN2s get from working hard for you?

It can be tough coming in low lateral, no track record with the team, and no power to likely make a big impact on their lives immediately.

If you are talented and have charisma/leadedrship then you can follow the approach I recommend.

The best approach I know is to pull a very heavy load yourself over the next year.  Work with those who are willing maybe lots of AN1s - but maybe some time with a few AN2s who are receptive but focus largely on making the work beneficial to them - to what they are trying to achieve or is relevant for their exit or progression.  Let them eat the cream and you eat double extra portions of grit.  Over time you can put the grit out in small portions to other because people will want to work for you...the analysts get good recs into PE/HF, they get the opportunity to participate/lead calls whatever to move up or out.  I did not say be easy on them, give few hours...what I do say is make it enticing and meaningful so you attract that top talent.

Oct 22, 2021 - 2:52pm
BreakingRich, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Haven't seen anyone give a very reasonable managerial response besides "do the work yourself".

Pull the analyst aside for a 15-30 minute meeting. Tell them you've been tasked with managing XYZ project and as a result you need more support. Your intention was to come to them since you've heard good things and were referred by staffer, but after doing so it became clear that they are very busy and unavailable, which therefore is putting significant pressure on the team.... now here is where you make an impact, ask them "how can I help you? what support do you need? is there anything I can fight to get you which would make your job better and free up time for other projects."

Guarantee they will give you some pieces to work with. Take a few of them seriously, do whatever you can to support them. You've now got that analyst in your pocket becuase you've shown that you "care" about them. That analyst will suddenly find free time for you on the next project.

  • 8
Oct 25, 2021 - 7:59pm
BreakingRich, what's your opinion? Comment below:

How Can I help -- What is the most mind numbing thing. Why are you stuck doing it. Are you using all resources given to you. IS there someone else you need the MBA associate to push that shit onto, without you looking like an asshole and pushing it onto someone else. 

What support you need -- that means be clear. "I need you to learn how to break out comps for this industry using XYZ analysis / format / whatever else you want to insert". Use real feedback and actual needs. Not just "do the work" that is useless.

That MBA associate will have to rapidly get themselves up to speed, they aren't COMPLETELY oblivious to the fact that they don't know what the hell is going on. But they have a different skillset than you do, so use it. They won't be completely inept in 1,2,3,4 years down the line. Build the partnership and get after it together

Oct 22, 2021 - 3:40pm
Markg_1, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Here's a POV of the partner (in life) of someone in IB. I've seen a lot through her eyes. As a seasoned entrepreneur I do know about 100 hr work weeks, but it's my equity I'm building. The IB industry is a diseased environment with  more broken, unhappy humans than any sector I've seen. Nothing to be proud of. And yes my wife is leaving. 

Oct 22, 2021 - 6:25pm
tml08, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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Oct 24, 2021 - 1:34pm
Dust, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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Sed corrupti nesciunt ex et modi voluptas est. Labore ullam nam placeat eum tempora voluptas. Aut ipsa veritatis et ut sed natus veritatis.

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Oct 26, 2021 - 1:57pm
backtoback, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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Jan 18, 2022 - 4:16pm
breezy443, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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